Human Rights: India

Baroness Verma Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Verma (Con)]

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, for initiating this debate. It will provide us with an opportunity to talk about the great diversity that is found in India, which is one of the most religiously and culturally diverse countries on the planet. I am a frequent visitor to India, encouraging greater partnership and collaboration between it and the UK. Both countries believe in the strength and importance of this relationship. Of course, as the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, alluded to, there will be a free trade deal between our two great nations. That trade deal will be based on a lot of issues. I will come to his point on human rights a little later.

In all my visits to India over many decades, I have seen an economic growth success story that many in the world would envy, as India stands as the fifth-largest economy in the world. There has not been a decline in minority populations in India. Every person is allowed to speak freely and in no fear of being persecuted, kidnapped or murdered. Incitement to hatred is a crime, whether here in the UK or in India, and any incitement that brings populations on to the streets to kill is dangerous.

Therefore, when I hear about the so-called atrocities and persecutions, I ask a number of questions. Where are the voices speaking on behalf of the thousands of Kashmiri Pandits and their families who were murdered or driven away from their homes in 1989? They were indigenous Kashmiris; 80% were driven out of their homes by mobs taking instructions from external powers. It would be really appreciated if the noble Lord and others would speak up and defend those people fleeing their homes.

Recently I spoke to the Chief Secretary of Jammu and Kashmir. He is very keen to see the state building on investment that is now beginning to appear as the state becomes safer and more stable. Some $7.5 billion has been invested in a range of sectors in recent years. The highest railway bridge in the world is being built in Kashmir. We are keen to be part of that growth and investment story and I encourage British companies to work towards building those closer ties and to work with our friends in Jammu and Kashmir.

On a wider point about India, I have been told that in Punjab there is going to be built one of the largest churches in the country, possibly the subcontinent. There has been no decline in minority populations. The Indian census shows that, decade on decade, the number of people from minority communities in India has increased. That cannot be said for India’s neighbouring countries, where temples and churches have been destroyed and minority communities have been persecuted and driven out.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, that as parliamentarians we have a duty to speak up where we find any form of abuse. But it has to be right that we highlight it wherever it occurs. I stand up often to defend women and girls and human rights in Iran. I stand up often to defend the rights of the tribal people in India, because I believe everybody has a right to be treated fairly by every state on the planet, but there seems to be silence when it comes to the countries that really do abuse minority communities. There may be reports by Amnesty and others, but I would like to see the evidence that is collected before I support any report, because I know, as a recent and keen visitor to India, the progress that is being made by every person there.

The noble Lord alluded to 2019. All central laws have now been extended to Jammu and Kashmir. That means that every single person has the same rights in any part of India. That must be right. It must be right that, if you are a homosexual, you have equal rights in Jammu and Kashmir, as you would across India, and that women have land inheritance rights, just like they do across India.

These discussions need be fair and informed when we have them, without one side believing that only one part of the community in India is persecuted, because I will stand up and fight for everyone’s human rights. That means that we have an honest debate.