Air Pollution

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Fox

Monday 8th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

Air pollution is a complex area—not only is it about what comes out of cars, but also what comes out of stoves and things such as carpets and paints. We need to move people on from older cars, which are far more polluting, and get them into ultra-low emission vehicles. The way to do that is to provide various grants and other schemes to encourage them in that direction. Eventually, people do change their cars, and I hope that they will look at zero-emission vehicles.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, that answer is interesting, because it is older cars—as the Minister and the noble Lord pointed out—that are the trouble. Sadly, it is the poorest people and smallest businesses that own the oldest cars. For them, changing is nigh on impossible. The Minister mentioned grants and encouragement; scrappage schemes, fiscal incentives, better public transport and mobility credits would all be of benefit in moving the poorest people off the most polluting vehicles. Which of these schemes will the Government be introducing, and when?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I think noble Lords have heard us talk before about the scrappage schemes. In our view, the evidence of their deliverability and value for money simply is not there. We are not pursuing that currently. However, on the other side, the The Road to Zero strategy, published in 2018, sets out a wide range of things that can be done to move people towards ULE cars and to make sure they have the charging points at which to charge them.

Honda in Swindon

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Fox

Tuesday 19th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, as set out by the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, last time it was Nissan, this time it is Honda. I wonder how many more such cases we will have to discuss before much longer. The Minister gave a spirited rendition of her department’s attempts to whistle in the dark. This is a blow. Before I go on, I refer your Lordships to my interests in the register.

It is clear that Honda’s Swindon plant has had challenging economics for some years. Last year’s output of 160,000 vehicles was sub-scale, yet Honda avoided closure and kept Swindon open—so why close it now? I am afraid that I do not believe in coincidences. It is no good the Minister saying that the company ruled out Brexit as a cause. Brexit promises to raise costs for parts and reduce access to the EU, which is fatal for an already marginal plant. Honda knows what it is doing, but it is a polite Japanese company that likes to keep out of politics. It also hates to close factories and sack people. The current chaos in this country gave it licence to act.

Beyond the absolute disaster this poses to Honda workers, and many more in the supply chain, this brings into question the Government’s industrial strategy. As Ian Howells, senior vice-president for Honda in Europe, said:

“We have to move very swiftly to electrification of our vehicles”.


Mr Howells also said that the company had to “look very closely” at where to put its investment. He explained that it has to be in a marketplace of the size that Honda requires to make the investment worth while; he emphasised scale. The conclusion that comes out of today’s announcement is that this does not include the United Kingdom.

That throws up at least three questions. First, given Mr Howells’ assessment that the UK market is sub-scale, how does Brexit create a more attractive market for investors? Making the addressable market smaller does not make good sense for future inward investment. Secondly, Dyson is going to Singapore, Nissan is stepping back and now there is this news from Honda. Where does this leave the industrial strategy? The Minister is right to emphasise the very fast pace of technological change, so where does this leave the electrification strategy in particular? Unless what the Government are attempting to do has volume car makers located in this country to deliver future vehicles, it will all come to naught, but volume car makers are departing this country. Clearly, Honda does not buy the Government’s plans, so what does the Minister know that makes her think that she knows better than Honda? Thirdly, Ford has warned the Government, and JLR clearly has issues. To date, Toyota is silent about Burnaston, but that plant is eerily similar to the Honda situation. Perhaps the Minister can tell us what conversations are going on with Toyota.

These are multidimensional problems and I concede that our Minister is not in control of all of the issues out there, but the Government can do some things right now to calm industry nerves. In the Statement the Government have said that they will do whatever it takes. Well, they could rule out a no-deal exit now and they could look again at remaining inside the customs union and the single market because that is what the car industry wants to hear. Today’s announcement is devastating for Swindon, but how many more advanced manufacturing businesses will have to close their doors before the Government finally get this message?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Grantchester and Lord Fox, for their comments. Some were very measured indeed—for which many thanks—but others I felt were a little harsh. I hope to explain why.

Let us start with the B-word. Although the leadership of Honda in Japan, Europe and the UK have specifically ruled out Brexit as the cause of this announcement, it is worth considering the impact of Brexit on the wider automotive sector. Of course, it remains our top priority to leave the EU with a deal that is good for business and provides the certainty that it needs. Within the Government and the Conservative Party, we feel that we are coalescing around a pragmatic compromise to achieve this deal. Unfortunately, the Labour Party seems to be more split now than it was 12 months ago, but I implore the remaining pragmatists in the Labour Party to back a deal because it is important for the industrial success of our country in the future.

We are determined to ensure that the UK continues to be one of the most competitive locations in the world for automotive and other advanced manufacturing. We have put forward a precise and credible plan for the future relationship with the EU and we are looking forward to working with the EU to put it into place. I have already made it very clear that Honda has made a series of global decisions. This is not unprecedented; it is a revision of the global manufacturing operations of a very significant automotive organisation. The current model, the Civic, is at the end of its production life cycle so it makes sense for Honda to cease operations in Swindon.

Much has been made of investment and whether that is a good thing by the Government at the moment and whether it is continuing. The Government have announced significant investment in this area. The automotive sector deal was announced in January last year. As a part of that, the Government and industry have committed £1 billion over 10 years to support the Advanced Propulsion Centre. The centre does research and development and it commercialises the next generation of low-carbon technologies, as well as keeping the UK at the cutting edge of low-carbon automotive innovation. We are talking about electrification, which is incredibly important. I beg to differ with the noble Lord: just because we do not manufacture hundreds of thousands of electric vehicles here, although I would very much like us to do so, we can achieve innovations by using this money. Already 44 projects have received £770 million to help them to leverage and get the intellectual property which we can then put into new types of engines and drivetrains that will make sure that these electric vehicles work. That is incredibly important. Also part of the automotive sector deal is £80 million for driving the electric revolution, focusing on power electronics and navigation. There is also the £400 million that the Chancellor announced in the Budget last year for charging infrastructure. That project is coming along well.

It is not just the Government choosing to invest in our country; businesses are choosing to come here. The noble Lord mentioned Toyota. Just last year, in February, Toyota announced that it would build the next generation of its hybrid Corolla model at the Burnaston factory in Derbyshire. The Secretary of State went to visit it, and it is now coming online. The new engines for this model will come from the company’s Deeside factory in north Wales, which will also help secure 3,000 jobs at this site. Toyota is not alone. Aston Martin has announced that the St Athan facility will become the home of its electric vehicle range. In February 2018, Greg Clark opened YASA’s new 100,000-unit electric motor production facility in Oxford. This goes back to what I said earlier to the noble Lord: it is not just about building the entire car nowadays but about building the components. If we have the ability to create these new engines, we must make sure that we use it.

Of course, we are in close dialogue with the car manufacturers; we were in close dialogue with Honda. I am sure noble Lords will understand that Honda’s announcement was hugely market-sensitive but it leaked anyway. That was hugely disappointing, mostly for those families who found out what was going to happen at Honda from the media, which I feel is wrong. The Secretary of State is now in close contact with Honda—as indeed he always is, but now more specifically—on building this task force to make sure that we get the skills and experience that are there into other manufacturing facilities in future.

I felt that some of the comments made by the noble Lords, Lord Grantchester and Lord Fox, were a little harsh. I recognise that there are mixed fortunes in the economy at the moment but all noble Lords who have ever run a business know that it goes up and down. Some businesses are not viable any more; others come to fruition. We must note that employment is at a record high and wages are growing; those are both very good things. Over half of SMEs expect to grow next year, and GDP is growing at 1.4%. I do not believe that this picture is of the dismal nature painted by the noble Lords.

European Research Infrastructure Consortium (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Fox

Wednesday 28th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The rules and regulations are agreed by member states as they come together to form the ERIC, so obviously, those statutes are specific to that ERIC. I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, concerning if, for some reason, the ERIC regulations fundamentally change. I do not think they have changed since 2008-09 and there is no move to change them whatsoever—let us remember that other non-EU countries would also be impacted by such a change to regulations—so I cannot imagine that there will be a great groundswell to change them. The CJEU is looking at the statutes of the ERIC—not the regulations themselves, the individual statutes of the regulations. Obviously, if a ruling went against us, we would have to consider our position, but we must be realistic: not a single case has ever been taken to the CJEU. We are probably dancing on the head of a pin. We have a mechanism—I do not want to call it a backstop—through which disputes, if there are any, are now resolved and will be in future. We are content to maintain that mechanism and I hope that the noble Lord is too.

I am pleased to say we may well be joining a number of ERICs in the next few years, and I hope that I outlined the process in my opening remarks. BEIS Ministers, using royal prerogative, have authorisation to join an ERIC, but before that happens there is an enormous collaboration process with UKRI, which advises whether it is a good idea for us to join. Securing the funding comes down to priorities, business cases and collaboration between the Department and the Treasury.

[Lord Fox]

Just to be clear, the Secretary of State would exercise the royal prerogative.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

Yes.

That is how, hopefully, we will be getting involved in new ERICs, which may happen soon. I take on board the comments of my noble friend Lord Deben, and I hope I have addressed them in the context of the CJEU and our pragmatic approach to this issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, raised the issue of timing—when the legislation will be needed or commenced. Obviously, if we have a deal, we will never need it, and therefore we hope that it will be put to one side. However, there is a possibility that, a scenario in which, we end up with no deal after the implementation period. At that point, this piece of legislation and many others—

Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Fox

Wednesday 28th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My noble friend is quite right to pick that up. What I have just outlined—in a sufficient amount of detail, I hope—is a de minimis burden. It is a very small, almost negligible amount spread across the entire industry. That is why this is structured as it is. We are talking about £1.4 million to £1.8 million a year for the whole industry, and that is at the highest level because we have assumed a cost for every single one of 1,695 travel agents.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

It is certainly de minimis for the nation but is it de minimis for a small travel agent? What does the Minister regard to be de minimis in terms of margin for an already low-margin business? This is an increased cost for a low-margin business. It may indeed be de minimis for the United Kingdom but the cost for those travel agents that have to take it on board might mean the difference between success and failure.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I take the noble Lord’s point that there might be certain businesses for which an additional cost of between £3,000 and £5,000 will be very difficult, but I believe that the number affected will be very limited. We will look at whether any implications arise from this, although my view is that they will not. When the system is eventually in place—if indeed it needs to be in place—I think that consumers will take added comfort from the fact that it is all in place and that they are covered.

Nuclear Safeguards Bill

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Fox

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 1st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox]

I support Amendments 8 and 13 and do not intend to speak at length. When the Minister was responding to Amendment 6 in the Committee’s previous sitting, he expressed a high degree of approval of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, and I trust that that continues through these amendments. The case has been set out by the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, and the DPRRC, and I hope that on these two amendments the noble Baroness can give us similar encouragement to that given by the Minister on Amendment 6. We on these Benches support the restricted use of these measures to give the Government the flexibility that they need. This is a good compromise between untrammelled power and the power they need for the flexibility to ensure the necessary regime.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Grantchester and Lord Fox, for their contributions. The amendments apply sunset provisions to two key powers in the Bill, Amendment 8 in respect of new Section 112(1B), which enables the Secretary of State to specify in regulations international agreements relating to safeguards that should be treated as “relevant international agreements”, and Amendment 13 in respect of the Henry VIII power in Clause 2.

I am grateful to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee for its considered report on the Bill. We are considering the recommendations carefully, and my noble friend Lord Henley hopes to respond positively to many of the recommendations soon.

I welcome the principles that appear to be behind these amendments, namely those of scrutiny, certainty and restriction of powers. However, as the underlying purpose behind these powers is very different, the proposed two-year sunset clauses must be considered in each context specifically.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Fox]

I thank the Minister for giving way. She has just referred to every time that we have a new agreement, but could she give us an estimate beyond the two-year period of how many additional agreements she would expect to have to insert into the regime?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

Of course, it is very difficult to be specific on that but, as we know, we are focusing on four NCAs in the first tranche. The noble Lord will know that there are many other countries with which we would like to have an NCA in future which perhaps do not fall within the first tranche. The second thing to recognise is that this is not just about entering into new NCAs; it is whether new obligations arise as conditions change within the international community for safeguarding. This gives us the flexibility, but it is not drawn so widely that we can do whatever we like.

While we cannot accept Amendment 8, I would like to provide reassurance of the scrutiny that will be in place to ensure that there is proper oversight in the use of this power. Pursuant to the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010, we would expect any new international treaties relating to safeguards to go through the ratification processes set out in that Act. Use of the power to make regulations specifying agreements as “relevant international agreements” is itself subject to the draft affirmative procedure in all cases, and any regulations made under the power that relies on these agreements must be consulted on. I am therefore confident that an appropriate level of scrutiny and restriction of powers is already in place.

I recognise the principles which lie behind the proposed amendments, and I hope that noble Lords will accept why I cannot accept them today. I therefore hope that the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, feels able to withdraw his amendment.

Scotland Act 2016 (Onshore Petroleum) (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2017

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Fox

Thursday 30th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, the Scotland Act 2016 implements the Smith commission agreement by devolving a range of powers to the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government. As recommended by the Smith commission, it was agreed that powers related to onshore oil and gas licensing, aside from those relating to royalties, would be devolved to Scotland.

The Scotland Act 2016 transfers legislative competence for onshore petroleum to the Scottish Government with the exception of matters relating to setting and collecting licence rentals. It also includes provisions for Scottish Ministers to exercise powers currently held by the Secretary of State or the Oil and Gas Authority in relation to onshore licensing in Scotland. These consequential amendments complement the provisions of the Scotland Act 2016 and assist in giving the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Ministers greater control over their onshore oil and gas resources.

The intention is to transfer the existing UK onshore licensing regime, as it applies in Scotland, to Scottish Ministers. This will provide Scottish Ministers with the powers to administer the existing onshore oil and gas licensing regime in Scotland and to create a bespoke licensing regime if they so wish.

To implement the relevant powers in the Scotland Act, we need to make two statutory instruments. First, these affirmative regulations make consequential amendments to the taxation legislation. Secondly, negative regulations will make consequential amendments to the licensing regime. BEIS officials have been working closely with the Scottish Government, HMRC, the Scotland Office and the Oil and Gas Authority to prepare the regulations. Once the Scotland Act 2016 provisions concerning onshore oil and gas are fully in force, onshore oil and gas licensing in Scotland will be the responsibility of Scottish Ministers and they will be responsible for granting relevant licences. Currently there are four onshore oil and gas licences in Scotland. There is no production from any of the licence areas.

I turn now to the detail of the regulations. These affirmative regulations make minor consequential amendments to taxation legislation to reflect the role of Scottish Ministers as the licensing authority in Scotland in order to allow the tax legislation to work as intended in relation to onshore areas in Scotland. The regulations provide for the position both before and after commencement of the Wales Act 2017, which makes equivalent provision for devolution of onshore oil and gas licensing to Wales. As recommended by the Smith commission, it was agreed that powers related to consideration payable for licences and related matters remain reserved and will therefore not be devolved to Scotland. This was set out in Sections 47 to 49 of the Scotland Act 2016.

Taken together with the forthcoming negative regulations, these provisions transfer responsibility for onshore petroleum in Scotland to Scottish Ministers, including responsibility for existing licences. The provisions provide Scottish Ministers with the powers necessary to administer the existing onshore oil and gas licensing regime in Scotland and to create a bespoke licensing regime. Furthermore, with the commencement of Sections 47 and 48 as part of the devolution of onshore petroleum licensing, mineral access rights will also be devolved, transferring responsibility for the process by which rights of access to private property are determined, delivering another key recommendation of the Smith commission.

This affirmative statutory instrument could be laid in Parliament only after the Wales Bill received Royal Assent in January 2017, as it makes amendments that anticipate amendments made by the Wales Act 2017. The negative regulations will follow these affirmative regulations to make consequential amendments to the licensing regime. There has been no specific consultation on these technical amendments, since they are necessary to the effective operation of the provisions set out in the Scotland Act 2016, which was consulted on separately. Additionally, transferring powers from the UK Administration to a devolved Administration does not count as a regulatory provision, so we are not required to do a regulatory impact assessment.

To conclude, the regulations assist in giving the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Ministers greater control over their onshore oil and gas resources, complementing the provisions of the Scotland Act 2016. These regulations make minor amendments to legislation governing taxation to ensure a smooth devolution of powers for onshore oil and gas licensing to Scottish Ministers. This measure is an important step towards delivering a recommendation of the Smith commission agreement. I beg to move.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I broadly welcome the devolutionary nature of this instrument. I think that my noble friend beside me would not forgive me if I did not say that we prefer an expansion of renewable energies rather than hydrocarbons, whether in Scotland or in the rest of the United Kingdom, and that should be put on record.

I am slightly confused and I may have misheard, so perhaps the Minister can guide me. I thought that the Minister said that consultations in drawing up these regulations had gone ahead with the Scottish Government, but the briefing says that there was no consultation. I would hope that these measures have been brought forth with the full understanding and consultation of the Scottish Government and I expect that they have. In that measure, I have nothing else to add.

[Lord Grantchester (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for introducing this measure to your Lordships’ House. As she explained, it is consequential to the Scotland Act 2016, commencing further devolution to Scotland once we undertake a similar instrument extending such powers to Wales under the Wales Act 2017. These provisions are included in the Energy Act 2016. The regulations devolve licensing power for petroleum exploration and development to Scotland. It is noted that this includes fracking.

The regulations provide for the position both before and after the commencement of the Wales Act 2017, which makes the equivalent provision for devolution of onshore oil and gas licensing to Wales. There is no material change to taxation legislation and no direct cost to business from these regulations.

These Benches entirely support and agree with the regulations. My only question arises from the lack of a commencement date. Does the Minister have any prospective date in mind that the Scottish Parliament can look forward to?