Criminal Finances Bill

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

The noble Baroness’s amendment is obviously a probing amendment, and I hope that we will get a response from the Government Front Bench that clarifies the situation.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for her scrutiny of these provisions. Her Amendment 107 seeks to require the Secretary of State to define the seniority of SFO staff so that not all have access to POCA powers. I appreciate her concern at the extension of the powers conferred by POCA but I hope I can reassure her by explaining our reasons for extending powers to SFO officers.

As the noble Baroness is undoubtedly aware, the SFO is responsible for investigating some of the most serious cases of fraud, bribery and corruption. To effectively combat complex crime, it is vital that SFO officers have access to the most effective legislative tools. Currently, only SFO officers who have accredited financial investigator status have access to POCA powers. This is at variance with other agencies such as the police, the NCA, HMRC and Immigration Enforcement, whose officers have direct access to these powers whether or not they are financial investigators.

It is logical and appropriate that these powers are made available to all SFO officers, both to ensure consistency of approach across agencies and to ensure that non-accredited SFO officers have access to POCA powers when investigating complex crimes, which may include investigating the proceeds of crime.

I hope I can further reassure the noble Baroness that all agencies adopt a process whereby applications made under POCA are considered and approved by an appropriate management chain before they are submitted to court. This ensures that all officers, of whatever grade or rank—even the janitor—are required to consider the necessity and proportionality of any application they make.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for allowing me to explain the rationale for this position—particularly the need to make powers available to a wide range of officers involved in the investigation of complex, acquisitive crime. I trust that she will feel inclined not to press this amendment and, accordingly, I invite her to withdraw it.

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Moved by

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

110: Clause 24, page 78, line 43, leave out “6 months” and insert “1 month”

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[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, this set of amendments makes a number of minor changes to the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 so that the powers in the Bill work as they were intended. As noble Lords will be aware, POCA is a complex piece of legislation and inevitably, as we have consulted further with key partners and parliamentary counsel, additional issues have arisen that require attention. Given their technical nature, I will not detain your Lordships for long, but I will highlight a few key points about these amendments.

They are primarily about ensuring consistency across the Bill. First, we are ensuring that penalties and fines mirror those already in POCA and elsewhere in statute. We will also provide that cash already being detained under terrorist forfeiture powers is not also liable for confiscation; this avoids double counting. These amendments will also extend existing powers for the courts in Scotland and Northern Ireland to order the payment of a criminal’s cash to settle an outstanding confiscation order. The Bill already provides for this in the English magistrates’ courts. We will provide that confiscation orders that have been discharged can be revisited if the criminal is found to have further assets. Finally, we are amending the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982 to allow for civil orders issued in one part of the UK to be recognised and enforced in another. I beg to move.

Amendment 110 agreed.

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Moved by

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

158: Clause 40, page 105, line 5, at end insert “or Part 1 of Schedule 5A (terrorist financing investigations in England and Wales and Northern Ireland: disclosure orders)”

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, today’s final group of amendments also concerns Part 2 of the Bill on the financing of terrorist-related activity.

Government Amendment 158 will extend the existing assault and obstruction offences in respect of counterterrorism financial investigators—CTFIs—to include assault or obstructing CTFIs who are exercising powers in relation to the disclosure order power introduced in Clause 33. This power is comparable to ones in Schedule 5 to the Terrorism Act 2000.

Amendment 160 would insert provision into the Terrorism Act so that court orders made in one part of the UK for the purposes of or in connection with the investigation of terrorist financing can be enforced in another. This power is comparable to powers in Schedule 5 to the Terrorism Act 2000.

Amendment 160 inserts provisions into the Terrorism Act so that court orders made in one part of the UK for the purposes of, or in connection with, the investigation of terrorist financing can be enforced in another. This power is being provided to ensure that the new powers in this Bill—for example, disclosure orders and further information orders—can be enforced more effectively. We are also taking the opportunity to ensure that existing provisions in the Terrorism Act—for example, production orders—can be enforced in the same way. The power to enforce orders across UK borders is already available for equivalent orders made under the Proceeds of Crime Act. I beg to move.

Amendment 158 agreed.