Legacy of Northern Ireland’s Past

Baroness Suttie Excerpts

Tuesday 20th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a shame that Statements are not read out in your Lordships’ House now. I know that it saves time and it can feel a bit odd when all a Minister does is read out another Minister’s Statement word for word, but it helps to understand why certain questions are being raised in the debate that follows. If it is the intention to continue in this way, perhaps we could consider having just a precis of the main points prior to the comments and questions.

The issue before us today is a Statement on the legacy of Northern Ireland’s past—but this past is closely bound to the present and the future, which has always made the process of moving forward to a peaceful future more challenging. The euphemistically called Troubles saw over 3,500 people killed and tens of thousands injured. As a former Northern Ireland Office Minister with responsibility for victims and survivors, I met so many, including veterans, from across communities, who still carry the physical and psychological scars of that time. Beyond that, the pain of so many and the impact on local communities reached into more areas of life than I had previously anticipated. I listened and heard what they had to say, and it has to be said that, at times, those conversations about the way ahead and the future were difficult and challenging for all of us—but no progress is ever made without understanding the other side.

In Prime Minister’s Questions last week, the Prime Minister said that the plans before the House and those before us today would allow Northern Ireland to

“draw a line under the troubles”.—[Official Report, Commons, 14/7/21; col. 365.]

We cannot live in the past, but the phrase “draw a line under”, referring to something so vast as that period in Northern Ireland’s history—and that of Great Britain —implies a lack of understanding.

Alongside the Statement, the Government’s Command Paper wisely states:

“The best outcomes for Northern Ireland have been achieved when we have collectively taken bold steps.”


However, the difficult truth for the Government is that there is no collective support for these proposals. The Government have failed to undertake the meaningful and genuine engagement and discussions in order to build collective support. There is no strength or wisdom to be found in the Government unilaterally announcing a policy or process that seems to have no support beyond 10 Downing Street.

These plans have been resolutely rejected by victims and survivors in Northern Ireland and Great Britain and across the political spectrum by all five parties in Northern Ireland. Today Stormont was recalled urgently to debate the proposals. The Motion before the Assembly stated that

“victims and survivors should have a full, material and central role and input into the content and design of structures to address the legacy of the past”

and called on the Assembly to reject the Government’s proposals

“for a statute of limitations”.

I do not need to tell the Minister—I am sure he is very much aware of it—that the Motion was unanimously supported and passed without a vote. It is quite an achievement for the Government to unite every Northern Ireland political party. In addition, the Irish Government are also opposed to this approach.

As well as those in Northern Ireland, there is great concern here in Great Britain. Even today, as the families of the victims and survivors of the Birmingham bombing petitioned Downing Street, they have still not had any communication from the Government about what this means for them. What we need today from the Government is some clarity, honesty and humility—clarity and honesty that this is not the way forward that victims were promised. Only last year, the Government promised to legislate on the Stormont House agreement through the New Decade, New Approach deal. Instead of progress on Stormont House, the proposal rides roughshod over it.

Can the Minister say something about how Operation Kenova fits into the Government’s plans? I give the example of Tom Oliver, who was abducted and murdered by the IRA in 1991 at the age of 43. As part of Operation Kenova, his family reported yesterday that new DNA evidence gave them “fresh hope” for the investigation. They have illustrated this as “a prime example” of why cases should not be closed. Does the Statement mean that the Government intend to shut down all live cases regardless of their status? Have they sought legal advice to ensure that this is compliant with the duty to provide effective investigations under Article 2 of the ECHR?

I think everybody in your Lordships’ House today knows how difficult this is. But we also know it is possible to make progress when some dismiss it as impossible. That is where the humility comes in. We do not want the Government to squander an opportunity to seriously address very real, genuine concerns about the legacy of the past, through a failure of effective engagement. I put it to the Minister, with a genuine commitment to co-operation, would it not be better to pause, listen and work with others to consider all options—including other options—for moving forward?

[Baroness Suttie (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I echo the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, about not hearing the original Statement; it does make for a slightly peculiar debate, even remotely, as I am this evening. It is also regrettable that such an important issue is being discussed so late in the day.

It is now 18 months since renewed hope was given to the people of Northern Ireland through New Decade, New Approach in January last year. That was an approach agreed by the previous Conservative Government, the Irish Government and had broad support across the communities and parties of Northern Ireland. Last week’s Statement represents a dramatic and deeply unwelcome move away from the Stormont House agreement, with its approach of peace and reconciliation, towards a blanket amnesty that does not distinguish between those who broke the law and those who upheld it. As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, has said, almost uniquely, last week’s Statement in the House of Commons by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland succeeded in uniting all five of Northern Ireland’s parties against these proposals.

These proposals are insulting to the victims and their families, across all communities and backgrounds, who have already waited so long to see justice and to be able to have closure. It would be interesting to know whether the Government can give a single example of when such an approach has ever succeeded in promoting a move towards genuine reconciliation. It is hard not to conclude that these proposals owe more to pressures from within the Conservative Party and certain elements of the media than to a genuine desire to deal with the legacy of the past and seek lasting peace and reconciliation.

The approach now adopted by the Government has introduced equivalence between all veterans, the vast majority of whom served the community with honour and respect for the rule of law, and terrorists, who deliberately sought to cause death. Justice and equality before the law are essential elements of trust in the law, which is a vital element of a path to reconciliation and moving on from the legacy of the troubled past.

Given the strength of opposition to these proposals in Northern Ireland, can the Minister say whether it remains the Government’s intention to impose this approach over the heads of Northern Ireland political parties and victims’ groups? Does he not fear that these proposals risk being seen as having no legitimacy and no credibility? Can he clarify their impact on inquests and ongoing investigations and prosecutions? Can he say whether the Government’s proposals apply only to Troubles-related deaths or to any other crime committed by members of proscribed terrorist organisations between 1968 and 1998? If an investigation concludes that an individual’s death was caused by a member of a proscribed organisation or a member of the security services, will the option to pursue the individual responsible via a civil claim also be closed off?

As Sir Jeffrey Donaldson MP put it so powerfully in the House of Commons last week:

“I want to take the path to reconciliation, but I cannot believe that the path to reconciliation is made easier when we sacrifice justice. The victims have to be at the centre of this, and I would urge the Secretary of State, in taking forward his proposals, to listen to their voices. This must be a victim-centred process; it cannot be at their expense.”—[Official Report, Commons, 14/7/21; col. 396.]

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Smith and Lady Suttie, for their comments and questions. I also particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, for her sensitive words about the victims, because of course they remain very much in our minds.

I echo the thoughts of both noble Baronesses about the way the House has to be at the moment and my inability to read out the Statement. I have echoed similar words before—I think it was on the Ballymurphy Statement—when I agreed with the comments made that it is often better to have the Statement read out, because it provides a sensitive and suitable base from which to discuss challenging issues.

As the Secretary of State set out last week in the other place, while Northern Ireland today is undoubtedly a fantastic place to live in, work in and visit, the unresolved legacy of the Troubles remains and casts a long shadow. We bear in mind that Northern Ireland is celebrating its centenary year; noble Lords may see that I am wearing the badge. However, the legacy continues to impact and permeate society in Northern Ireland, both for those who were directly involved and affected and those who were not but live with the trauma of previous generations.

It is now a painful reality that the focus on criminal investigations is increasingly unlikely to deliver successful criminal justice outcomes. More than two-thirds of Troubles-related deaths occurred more than 40 years ago, and it is increasingly difficult for the courts to provide families with the answers that they seek. Time is not on our side. If we do not act now, we will condemn current and, importantly, future generations to ongoing division and prevent the reconciliation needed for Northern Ireland to move forward.

That is why—to give a little bit of background—the Secretary of State published the Command Paper, which sets out, very briefly, the three key measures: the new independent body that would focus on the recovery and provision of information; a package of measures that includes a major oral history initiative, consistent with what was included in the Stormont House agreement; and, as has been mentioned, a statute of limitations to apply equally to all Troubles-related instances.

I want to try and address some of the questions raised. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, stated that there had been no engagement and particularly that there was no collective support. Okay, I note what she says. However, I point out to her that there was 18 months of preparation for this Statement, and we have indulged in a lot of engagement, particularly in recent months, with a range of groups. Part of the point of this Statement is that these proposals are leading to an intense and short period of engagement with all groups within Northern Ireland, including victims’ groups, to see how we can find a way forward. That is the honesty and the clarity for which the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, was looking. We should be open about that.

Operation Kenova has proved to be valuable in terms of drawing out information about the Troubles, which we are looking to build on by drawing out reconciliation and bringing out historical information that we hope will provide some comfort to victims, should they wish this. However, part of the reason we have brought forward these proposals is that Operation Kenova has led to no prosecutions, and that is a sad fact.

The noble Baroness raised the issue about Tom Oliver. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on a matter under criminal investigation, but the Government are clear that a continued focus on criminal justice outcomes will deliver neither justice nor information to the vast majority of families. That is why obtaining information, as I said earlier, which we know is so important to many victims and survivors, is the cornerstone of the proposals that the UK Government have put forward. We want to deliver tangible outcomes for as many families as we possibly can.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, made great play—and I understand why—about why we are bringing forward these proposals and cannot find an agreement. We are determined to drive progress and deliver legislation on this issue, but we are consulting first. This paper sets out our proposals and, as I said earlier, it will be an intensive and time-limited period of engagement. There are many different perspectives on this difficult issue, which we recognise, but we must all work together to find a way forward that works for Northern Ireland, which comes back to a point the noble Baroness made. These issues are sensitive; they will require courage and, importantly, they will include collaboration.