Policy-making: Future Generations

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 1st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Laming (CB)]

In the absence of my noble friend Lord Bird, who cannot be here, I ask the Question in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, accounting for the interests of future generations is a core consideration within the Government’s policy-making. The Government require that all programmes, projects and policies demonstrate the costs, benefits and risks associated with the intervention over its whole lifetime, in line with the government Green Book. This includes the impact on future generations. Where the possible effects of an intervention being examined as part of an appraisal are long term and involve very substantial or irreversible wealth transfers between generations, The Green Book sets out the analysis that is required to estimate the long-term impact of the intervention.

[Lord Laming]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister, who has vast experience in this area. But I ask whether the Government recognise that the budgetary cuts year on year on year have resulted in a marked reduction in family support and preventive services, especially for young people. Does she accept that there is a great deal of catching up to be done, which must involve the contribution of every government department, as is happening in Wales? How will the Government ensure that every department plays a part in this?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I would be foolish to say that we have not got some catching up to do, but I assure all noble Lords that we wish to work hard to achieve this. In terms of cross-government working, I have been in the department only a short while, and I have met with people in other government departments to talk about things that we can do together to make the impact better. The principle is well understood, and I assure all noble Lords that we are completely committed to making sure that the resources we have are deployed well for the benefit of all generations.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to The Green Book as being the means by which the Government decide how to adjudicate between the interests of different generations. But The Green Book, which is a Treasury document, sets out the tool for analysing or comparing policy objectives using things like net present social value or social time preference rates; you can work out how to judge those transfers. Will the Government publish the results of those analyses in the impact assessment along with everything else? More importantly, the young people I saw in Durham on the climate strike were convinced that we are not prioritising their interests. What tools can the Government use to assess damage done to the climate and to the planet—although, of course, there is no planet against which we can compare it?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Well, there is an exam question! On the question of publishing the impact assessment, I will go back and ask my boss. Do not think that that is a cop-out; I do not actually know. I will ask my boss and then write to the noble Baroness, and everybody will receive a copy of his response through the Library.

On climate change, I think that we have done really well to be the first country to legislate for long-term climate targets. Between 1990 and 2017 we reduced emissions by 42%, so we are serious about this. I hope that the efforts of young people in this respect will help them realise that they are having a great impact on the activities of the Government to make that happen.

[Lord Tyler (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that this Question has accountability to this and future generations at its core? Is there anybody in No. 10 who has any respect for our constitution and parliamentary democracy, let alone has made any assessment of the importance of our history in this respect? My ancestor, Jonathan Trelawny, was one of the seven bishops who defied James II’s royal prerogative and then precipitated the Glorious Revolution of 1688. Does the noble Baroness accept that the Executive are answerable and accountable to Parliament, not the other way around? Has that not been the central, core constitutional principle for 330 years? As this is such a minority Government—

[Lord Tyler]

As this is a minority Government and the Prime Minister represents only a tiny fraction of that minority, surely the task he refers to is representing what Parliament is saying, rather than what he wants to do.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The phrase “something vexes thee” comes to mind. The noble Lord is trying to get me into the territory of another subject that I do not want to get into today; I want to stick to what we are discussing. But I do not think there is any doubt that everybody understands about accountability. I do not think I can add anything, and speak on behalf of No. 10, other than to say that I am convinced that they understand that.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, we have all heard about the bank of mum and dad, but in considering the future of social care policy is my noble friend aware that we will rapidly move to the bank of son and daughter? When can we expect the Government to produce a response to the committee of this House’s report on social care, or indeed the long-promised Green Paper?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I understand about the bank of mum and dad—and about the bank of auntie, from which deposits are drawn on a regular basis. I understand the point my noble friend is making; it is a very important issue that impacts greatly on those who need social care now. Of course, coming future generations will want to know how this is all going to be done. I do not know about the timing of the documents, but I will try to find out and write to my noble friend.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, when the Government are criticised over the lack of music in schools and on syllabuses, they point to the success of the music hubs. I salute that success, but these hubs are now financially at risk, with future funding not confirmed even for next year. Will the Minister confirm that funding will continue, and increase to cover inflation and increased costs, thus preventing the legs being cut from under music education in this country and, indeed, the Government’s own flagship?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I do not want to seem flippant, but I do have not have my chequebook with me today, so I do not think I can help him there. Again, this is something I will need to find out about, but the point he raises about the importance of music is well understood.

Pensions

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Wednesday 13th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bakewell (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, on raising this issue, and all the women who are attending the debate—and by that I imply a criticism of all the men who have decided to stay away.

One day they will make a film about this issue. It will be a British film, made on a small budget and inspired by a sense of outrage that such an unfair treatment of British women could have persisted into the 2010s. It will join a fine tradition of films which have put on record the past struggles women have had to be heard. Recent ones include the 2010 film “Made in Dagenham” and the 2015 film “Suffragette”—both subjects that the establishment of the day hoped would go away once the fuss died down. But it did not, and the protests of the women finally won out.

The WASPI women are in that tradition. Indeed, their many branches wear the suffragette colours with pride. They persist in protesting the unfair treatment that women born in the 1950s have been given by the Government’s pensions policy, as expressed with increasing severity in the Pensions Acts of 1995 and 2011. The film of their story will detail how, in trying honourably to remedy one inequality—bringing women’s and men’s retirement ages into harmony—the Government of the day perpetrated another, subjecting 2.6 million women to unexpected delays to their pension dates, with too little warning, and throwing many of them into genuine hardship.

The film will show, with perhaps only slight exaggeration, bumbling officials—I suggest Jim Broadbent or Hugh Bonneville—overwhelmed with detail about changing demographics and passing on conflicting advice to the Ministers concerned. A lead role in the film will be the Minister of State at the Department for Work and Pensions, Steve Webb, who will be shown as well-meaning but confused—a part for Hugh Grant, I think. Steve Webb was the longest-serving Minister at the DWP and effected important and successful changes, such as the triple lock on pensions that benefited many and continues to do so, and the automatic enrolment by businesses of their workers into pension schemes—all fine reforms by a man whose word we could surely trust.

That being so, Steve Webb will have written his own script for the film in June 2015, after he had left office and lost his parliamentary seat. He told the Institute for Government:

“There was one very early decision that we took about state pension ages, which we would have done differently if we’d been properly briefed, and we weren’t … we’d put an announcement out … and we just hadn’t thought through what we were doing … we had to make a difficult decision … and the implications of what we were doing suddenly, about two or three months later, it became clear that they were very different from what we thought … so that’s a decision that we got wrong”.


Those are the Minister’s own words. Incidentally, Steve Webb also spoke of the fine support he usually had from his civil servants—“very good people”, he called them—but not on this occasion.

The film will show Steve Webb going, cap in hand, to David Cameron, leader of the coalition Government in which he served, and asking for some money back from the savings that his department had made. He needed this money to soften the blow but came up against George Osborne and the steely men of the Treasury—male judgments being passed on women’s lives. He got only a third of the £3 billion he asked for and thus was the crisis launched.

Like any good film, this one will fill in the background: the genuine poverty that WASPI women are suffering because they were not given time to plan. We will see piles of brown envelopes stacked up, not delivered or left unopened at the wrong addresses. I have had arguments made to me that the news of the changes was in fact dispatched to the women concerned. Perhaps the film will show us the many ways the post can go astray and publicity campaigns be overlooked. We will see women who were facing retirement at 60 suddenly trying to extend their employment and being refused, trying at the jobcentre and suffering the humiliation which at their age is deeply distressing for them.

I can imagine the story being told of one such character—let us say she will be played by Julie Walters. She left school at 15, has worked all her life since, paying the contributions expected of her from her meagre wages, and now she is bewildered that the world is denying her the support she had always been led to believe was hers by right. We can imagine the brutal cross-examination at the jobcentre—Simon Russell Beale in a cameo role, I think—and the requirement to seek out employment before she becomes eligible for any benefit to ease her poverty.

We now live in a time that is finely tuned to the lives of women and how, simply because of their gender, their experiences of life are different from those of men in so many ways—equal pay, sexual harassment. We are increasingly conscious that simply because you are a woman you should not be singled out for particular treatment—of whatever kind. There is a groundswell of popular feeling that this should not be so. The WASPI women were born long before the equal pay legislation and well before the Equality Act. They have lived their lives under the disadvantages that were once the lot of all women. The pensions legislation perpetuates that disadvantage—no adequate notice, no time to prepare and no adequate transitional arrangements to ease any hardship. The various suggestions that have been made for transitional arrangements do not meet their needs. They now ask to meet the department to discuss and resolve this continuing and shameful situation.

Only last month there was a majority of 288 votes to none in the other place for the Motion calling on the Government,

“to improve transitional arrangements for women born on or after 6 April 1951 who have been adversely affected by the acceleration of the increase to the state pension age”.—[Official Report, Commons, 29/11/17; col. 366.]

The film poster might well read: “They were old. They were women. They were condemned to be poor”. I appeal to the Minister to make sure that this does not happen.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, I respectfully remind noble Lords that this is a timed debate and the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, is going to speak in the gap, so we need to take 30 seconds off the other speakers. If noble Lords could please stick to the time, that would be helpful.