Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Baroness Scott of Needham Market Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 7th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)]

My Lords, it is a real pleasure and a privilege to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, as she has made what I think all would agree was an exemplary maiden speech. It was concise, knowledgeable and full of interesting insights, and brought with it a passion about passengers from her experience in London—Londoners—and passengers wherever they happen to live in our country. As we heard, she served as a member of the London Assembly for 16 years, as chair or deputy chair of the transport committee. During that time, she achieved the respect and admiration of people not just in our party or the assembly but across London and in the industry. I know that her wealth of knowledge and experience will be a great asset to the work of this House. We extend our warmest wishes to her and look forward to her future contributions in this debate, on transport generally and on regional government, and, above all, still as a champion for London.

It reminded me that I made my maiden speech during the passage of the Transport Act 2000. As I look around, I see a handful of gnarled veterans of that debate—and I include myself in that. Starting off with all the nervousness that you have when you make a maiden speech, I was not helped by the Minister saying, “My Lords, we have five former Secretaries of State speaking in today’s debate”. Lord Rodgers of Quarry Bank, who was one of them, leaned over to me and said, “Well, just look at what a mess we all made of it”. He knew how to put me at my ease.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, I have absolutely no ideological aversion to private sector involvement in public services. There are instances where it can work very well, but the problem with rail, as we have seen with other services such as water, is that we end up creating a pretend market, a sort of proxy for something that does not exist, which leads to incentives for behaviours that often do no serve the public well, as either taxpayers or passengers. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, had it when he described it as “gaming the regulator”. A lot of that goes on—and the fact that four services out of 14 are now run by the Government as the operator of last resort is a testament to that.

As far back as 2018, as we have heard, many in the industry were calling for a total rethink of the franchising model that had been established in 1993, and that included the operators themselves. I think that there is widespread agreement that change is needed but, unfortunately, what we do not seem to hear, other than in today’s Bill, is a vision for what that change might look like. There is an opportunity here to explore, as we go into Committee, what other options might look like.

We have created a tangled web of different players with planning, delivery and oversight powers in the railway, which has led to a system that in some cases has given passengers a woeful experience. The interfaces between all those different organisations have caused expensive inefficiencies and a real lack of transparency, as we heard from my noble friend Lord Bradshaw. However, there are good operators. I am fortunate enough to live in an area served by Greater Anglia, which is one of the very best in the country. Ironically, it is one of the first that will go under the terms of the Bill.

I think that we all agree that there should be a clear and coherent plan for the railway in which it can operate effectively as a mode of transport but also deliver wider objectives such as economic development and net zero. The “guiding hand” principle underpinning Great British Railways is the right idea and commands widespread support.

But surely it would have made sense to have established that first, then allow the experts within it to determine the best way of delivering its objectives. For example, they could recommend other models of private sector involvement such as the concession model, which, as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, has worked very successfully in London on the overground and the Elizabeth line. Putting this Bill first has closed off all those options.

It is quite hard to judge the four clauses in the Bill, because it is the framework within which it sits that will determine the extent to which it is successful, and we will not know that until we get the big Bill at some point next year. I have a lot of questions for the Minister. I understand that they will probably not receive a reply this evening, but other noble Lords have touched on the same subjects. First, I am not clear still about how the guiding hand is going to work at the same time as the day-to-day operations being run by government. Clearly, we want to be able to make sure that they are coherent and work together, but we cannot have day-to-day management sitting with exactly the same people who are making the strategic decisions; it will simply not work.

Will there still be a role for the Rail Safety and Standards Board, and how will its independence be maintained? It is interesting that in all the discussions we have had so far, nobody has mentioned safety. It is worth reflecting on how safe our railway is and what it takes to keep it so; that is something we really need to take good account of. I would also like some thoughts about the Office of Rail and Road, to which other Members have referred.

It is still not clear to me who is going to ensure fair access for freight, and devolved and open access services. I think people welcome the Minister’s commitment to keeping them, but we need to be sure that they are going to be able to operate effectively, particularly with the capacity constraints that the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, and others have referred to. I would also appreciate some clarity about the relationship with local government as planning and transport authorities. As the Government’s thinking on regional governance is evolving, would it not make sense, as many noble Lords have said, to think about some of them running local rail services, in the way that happens in London and with Merseyrail?

I have a few more questions. What assessment is being made of the staffing requirement for taking these franchises in house, ensuring the right mix and level of skills, from the operational to the strategic?

Currently, mainline stations are operated by Network Rail and the rest are run by the operators. How can we be sure that the essential improvements that are needed for smaller stations currently run by operators do not end up at the back of the queue? Indeed, if the noble Lord, Lord Young, is correct and the investment dries up, there might be a problem of any improvements.

While I welcome the establishment of the passenger standards authority, it will not be in place until the major railways Bill has passed. The process of renationalising passenger services will have started well before then, so how can we be sure that the voice of passengers will be heard right from the outset?

Finally, clarity about the timetable for this is essential. I understand the noble Baroness’s point about contractual obligations and having to take them in the order in which they fall, but is she absolutely sure? Public confidence in this process will be severely dented if a good operator, such as Greater Anglia, faces the axe before a terrible one, such as Avanti. I just ask her to think about that.

With a flight of fancy, 27 September next year will be the 200th anniversary of the opening of the Stockton to Darlington railway. Would it not be great to see a proper renaissance of our railways?

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Baroness Scott of Needham Market Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 21st October 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market]

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 12, at end insert—
“25B Termination of existing franchise agreements(1) The Secretary of State must terminate franchise agreements for default in accordance with the terms of the agreement as soon as it is possible to do so.(2) Subject to subsection (1), the Secretary of State must not terminate a franchise agreement pursuant to a break clause unless—(a) there are no other franchise agreements which are—(i) terminable for default or may be terminable in the next three months for default, or(ii) will come to the end of their term within the next three months, and(b) the Secretary of State is satisfied that provision of the services by a public sector company will improve existing service provision.(3) In this section, “break clause” means a contractual provision in a franchise agreement which entitles the Secretary of State to terminate the franchise agreement before the end of the franchise term by notice without reason.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment would require the Secretary of State to nationalise the worst performing operators first while enabling services that are currently working well to continue.

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)]

My Lords, I am sure that all of us want the same thing that the passengers want: a railway which is reliable, punctual and affordable. In too many parts of the country, they have been let down and this has not been delivered. Personally, I can understand why the Government have chosen this way of doing things and improving matters. But I do also think it is beholden on this House, particularly as we are now in Committee, to really focus on the way in which the Government intend to do this. It is in that spirit I move Amendment 1.

I am arguing what I argued in my Second Reading speech—that, in order to make the transition to public ownership a success, the Government should first take on those operators which are demonstrably failing passengers. They should turn those services around to deliver tangible improvements for the travelling public. It follows that the management of currently high-performing operators—as I shall show noble Lords, they do exist—should be retained for as long as possible to ensure that passengers continue to receive good service while minimising costs to taxpayers.

This amendment would require the Secretary of State to first nationalise the worst-performing operators to deliver immediate benefits to passengers and taxpayers, while enabling services that are currently working well to continue for the time being. Specifically, it places the Secretary of State under a duty to prioritise the termination of franchise agreements where the incumbent operator is in default of their agreements and gives them a duty not to terminate non-defaulting franchise agreements early unless there are no franchise agreements to be terminated due to default or because of their expiry. It would also require that terminating such an operator early would improve existing service provision.

I will say a word or two about the railway I use. I have travelled between Suffolk and London several times a week for more than 25 years now, and I can tell noble Lords that my service has never been better. Greater Anglia has spent £1.4 billion upgrading its rolling stock. It returned £65 million to the Treasury in the year ending in March and is predicted to return £100 million next year. It has a 94.8% public performance measure; I think Avanti is currently at 62.2%. Greater Anglia’s cancellations are at 1.4% and Avanti’s at 10.2%, but Greater Anglia’s full term expires in September 2026 and will therefore be one of the first to go.

It is genuinely difficult to see how that performance could be bettered. Indeed, with new management operating and a whole new set of structures it could conceivably get worse, initially at least. On the other hand, the poorly performing franchises have the potential for significant improvement—indeed, that is why the Government are doing this—so by using a strictly chronological approach they risk losing the confidence of the public right at the start of this process.

Current national rail contracts give the Secretary of State powers to act against failing train operators, both in general and where remedial measures are in place, and she has broad rights to information provision about possible contraventions, so could the Minister outline how the Secretary of State has used these rights in relation to CrossCountry and Avanti contracts? The grounds for default under the national rail conditions are passenger service performance, non-compliance with remedial agreements and contravention of other obligations, so has the Minister sought advice on CrossCountry’s and Avanti’s performance in relation to those provisions? Is either TOC in breach of any other provision? With Greater Anglia, West Midlands Trains and East Midlands Railway all performing well, can the Minister say whether they will be allowed to run their full course?

Regardless of where your Lordships stand on the question of renationalisation, in the end, as members of the travelling public, we all want it to work. By taking a strictly chronological approach, which leaves poor performers in place, the Government risk seriously undermining their own flagship policy. I beg to move.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, I have an amendment in this group that is closely aligned with the noble Baroness’s, on which she has spoken very eloquently. It would reaffirm the Secretary of State’s powers to, if necessary, withdraw franchises from operators.

I tabled my amendment because I am a strong supporter of the Government’s policies and it would be tragic if we could not complete the transfer of companies to public ownership with remarkably quick speed. Yet, when we had the Second Reading debate, the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, pointed out to us that, unless there was a basis for withdrawing the Avanti franchise, it would run for another couple of years. It would be tragic if the worst-performing franchise, along with CrossCountry, was allowed to continue for this extended period and thereby to delay the Government’s ability to introduce the kind of rail reform that a unified railway under a guiding mind would make possible. To tell you the truth, on the basis of what I have heard, I think our Ministers are being a bit feeble. They could stand up to Avanti with much greater determination than they have.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

It varies in accordance with the particular train company. Some of them are coming to a natural conclusion, others have break clauses that enable termination and, in a limited number of cases, there are some choices that could be made. To that extent, we will have to make them.

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)]

My Lords, I am very grateful for the support I have received from across the Committee for my amendment. I am not sure I can remember it happening to me before, and I was basking in the warm glow until the Minister stood up to reply. I am sure that all Members of the Committee will be disappointed because, at the bottom of this, we will be renationalising the Greater Anglia franchise with a performance rating in the 90 per cents, and leaving Avanti in place with its performance in the 60 per cents. Whatever the policy or legal niceties, people will be bewildered by that. I have every sympathy with the Minister; the Government inherited a contract that seems to have allowed extraordinary latitude to Avanti for poor performance. I also recognise the twin problem that it has an extraordinarily long franchise, but I am sure that he has heard very clearly what everyone is saying here. The message to him is: please be absolutely sure that there is not some extent to which political will can find a way through this. A failure to deal with this will leave the travelling public absolutely bewildered. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 1 withdrawn.

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Baroness Scott of Needham Market Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)]

My Lords, I would like to say that it is a pleasure to follow the two noble Baronesses but actually it is not. It makes me so angry that, week after week, they come to this House and tell us about the problems they have. When they do that they are telling us about not just their problems but the problems being encountered by tens of thousands of people, day in, day out. My Amendment 39 is about the passenger standards authority. If anything demonstrates why we need a passenger standards authority, it is the experience that has just been outlined.

The passenger standards authority is part of a package that will come later and is not part of the Bill, but I want to raise it here because passenger standards are the reason for the Bill and why we are here. As we have been hearing over the past week or so, a combination of fragmentation within the industry, poor tendering and inadequate enforcement has led us to the situation that we are in now, but it seems to me that there is something about an organisational culture that is the complete reverse of being passenger-focused.

One of the problems we are facing is that the way that we measure the performance of train operating companies is legalistic and algorithmic; so on one side of it, you are all right and no action will be taken, but step a little further and action will be taken. For passengers, that feels arbitrary. I would like to hear from the Minister how the passenger standards authority is going to work. How will it hold the operator to account in a way that so demonstrably has not been done in the past? Will it be taking a similar, very measured approach, or can it really get into the nitty-gritty of what makes passenger journeys work?

Of course, that includes punctuality, reliability, ticketing and accessibility, but there is a bunch of other things, as we have heard from noble Lords, such as the provision of consistent, understandable information; trains that are clean and properly staffed and on which people feel safe; some sort of functioning wifi; and the ability to get a cup of tea on a long journey. These things are all part of the passenger experience and should not be that difficult.

Is the passenger standards authority going to have the ability to represent passengers right across the piece? Will it be genuinely about driving improvement, not just constantly having niggles with train operators about whether they are not quite good enough or not quite bad enough? I look forward to the Minister’s reply.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register.

I support Amendment 17, in the names of four eminent Members of your Lordships’ House. I hope that I will be forgiven if I also say that I declare the interest of having worked with the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, on these issues and duty of care and accessibility for many decades. In fact, we go back to the point when, as Minister for Sport, I approached the International Olympic Committee to ask it to consider ensuring that all the facilities used by a host city for the Olympic Games should immediately be used thereafter for the Paralympians. That was not just so that we could look at athletes and focus on their abilities rather than their disabilities, but to change the mindset of the population. A lot of what we have been talking about this evening is about changing that mindset. It is about changing attitudes: we cannot simply put in a statement of standards and allow it to gather dust; we must make sure that that statement of standards changes attitudes.

The Government have a great opportunity to include a statement of standards in this legislation. No party has a greater interest in accessibility than any other party. We all passionately agree across the Chamber about the importance of responding to the proposers of the amendment we are debating. This Bill is an opportunity to recognise that and move forward to a new level of recognition and understanding about what should be in a statement of standards.

All train operating companies should be committed to providing infrastructure and rail services to the highest standard of accessibility—that is the starting position—and customer service for all customers and stakeholders. There should be accessible travel policies outlining their approach to providing assistance to customers with restricted mobility or who require assistance, including those with visual or auditory impairments, learning disabilities and non-visible disabilities. This policy should be placed in a statement of standards and should be aligned to other legislation, such as the Equality Act and the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations 1998.

Passenger Assist is a national system supported by all train operating companies at the moment. I hope it will be supported in future, because it is vital that we arrange passenger assistance for disabled customers and those with restricted mobility. At present, national technical specifications for interoperability define technical and operational standards to ensure the interoperability of trains, not least into the European railway system, and must include accessibility standards for new stations or major work on existing stations. Let us embed that into a statement of standards. The Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations ensure that vehicles used as rail replacement services are accessible. All involved should implement these standards for all new infrastructure, in addition to adopting innovation and best practice.

Level boarding is an incredibly important issue. All new train fleets being introduced should have a slightly lowered floor height compared with typical trains in the UK and should be provided with a retractable step to close the gap between the train and the platform. This would mean that all passengers should be able to board and alight without assistance, at all platforms, once the long-running transformation in this country is complete and all platforms have been brought into alignment. Let us embed that into a statement of standards.

I shall touch on two other things. The first is persons with reduced mobility national technical specification notices. At present, NTSNs define the regulatory requirements for infrastructure and trains, to ensure accessibility for people with reduced mobility. They include standards for the design, construction and maintenance of railway systems to make them accessible. Braille and prismatic signage at our major stations should be an essential feature and should comply with the PRM NTSNs.

On braille signs, let us take the situation in Wales. Braille signs should be in both languages; they should be in Welsh as well as English, aligning, in that case, with the Welsh Language Act’s commitment to preserving the language. This initiative not only supports the ethos of that Act but enhances accessibility for individuals with impaired vision. I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, will agree with that.

Finally, there should be station design toolkits specialising in wayfinding requirements and colour schemes, to ensure consistency and accessibility. That includes principles for signage, fonts and colours, to create a high-quality station wayfinding system.

This Bill provides a unique opportunity to include a comprehensive suite of accessibility reforms and to introduce a standardised and consistent approach to accessibility standards across the railway network. All of us across the Chamber agree on the importance of the subject. Here we have a real opportunity to have a statement of standards of the highest possible quality enshrined in legislation. I look to the Minister and the Government to at least take that away and think about it as an important step forward that would gather support across the Chamber and respond to the worrying concerns that have been expressed by the noble Baronesses in Committee tonight.