Charities (Pre-consolidation Amendments) Order 2011

Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Excerpts

Wednesday 27th April 2011 Grand Committee

I apologise for that explanation—if anyone has managed to follow me, I am both surprised and grateful—but for the sake of the record one has to explain what one is up to and I have done my best. Again, I have given notice, although not long notice, of this to the Minister. We will be able to do something about it because we can make an amendment to the consolidation Bill and, as that will be at the Committee stage, we shall have a bit of time to do so. I shall shut up at this point.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for her explanation of the order and for the background information that she provided. She is of course correct when she says that the previous Government—my Government—made a commitment to seek a consolidation of the charities legislation subject to support from the Law Commission, which the commission has now given. I am very glad that we heeded the wise advice of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury. We look forward to discussing the consolidation Bill, although it will not be I who does that next week as I shall be otherwise engaged.

I note that the amendments made by the order are not considered to make substantive changes to the law or to introduce new policy, and I rely on the incisiveness and expertise of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, because I do not have the talent of an egg-head. I further note that in a consultation about the consolidation, there were only two responses about the draft order, so clearly not a lot of people out there have deep, if any, concerns.

I have one rather simple question. The noble Baroness mentioned the review which will take place later this year. I wonder when we can expect the results of the review and also how the Government will act on those results. I realise that the report of the review will be debated in Parliament but I wonder whether this might lead to further legislation, further simplification or what. I do not know how these things work and I should be grateful for some clarification from the Minister.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I am most grateful for the warm welcome for the order from my noble friend and the noble Baroness. This has been a very short debate but it has been very informed, and I am glad that I have an egg-head in my noble friend on my side. Although I tried very hard to follow and navigate my way through what he was saying, at times I got slightly lost and tried to refer back to the order. I am also grateful to my noble friend for giving me prior notice of the two questions which he has put. I will try my level best to respond. If I fail still to allay any of his concerns, I shall write to him and put a copy of the letter in the Library.

My noble friend asked, first, about the amendments made by paragraph 10 of the schedule, which gives effect to the recommendations of the Brooke committee of 1972-73 to rationalise statutory instrument procedure. The committee recommended that the procedure in the Statutory Instruments Act 1946, whereby a statutory instrument subject to the negative procedure had to be laid in draft before both Houses, should be avoided. The amendment removes that aspect of the statutory instrument process for orders made under Section 17 of the Charities Act 1993, which provides a mechanism for parliamentary scrutiny of a Charity Commission scheme that alters the constitution of a charity governed by statute. Such orders will still be laid before Parliament and can be prayed against.

My noble friend also asked a valid question about paragraph 24 of the schedule. It is not our intention to make a substantive change to Section 79. We shall look carefully at the point that my noble friend has raised and refer it to the drafters of the Bill. If necessary, we will confirm that the appropriate amendments will be made before the Bill goes to the Joint Committee for consideration. We will write with further details once the drafter has considered my noble friend’s question. I hope that my noble friend feels a little more satisfied by my responses.

The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, asked about the review. There is no firm timetable as yet, but the review must begin before 8 November and its report be laid before Parliament. We anticipate the review concluding some time in 2012, but it is too early to say how long it will take to take forward any recommendations.

I hope that I have answered the questions of my noble friend and the noble Baroness. It has been a very short debate, but I hope that I have been able to satisfy noble Lords. I hope that my noble friend will be in the Chamber next Thursday, or I shall feel very lonely debating the Charities Bill all on my own.