Draft National Policy Statement for Waste Water

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Tuesday 5th April 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Quin]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his explanation of the draft national policy statement on waste water and for outlining the Government’s approach to it. As he said, we are dealing with something that is very important; this is essential for public health and for a clean environment, as it is expressed on the Defra website. When we consider that much of our infrastructure for waste water, and for our water supply generally, was established in the 19th century, we remember its importance in tackling some of the prevalent diseases in our urban populations at that time, such as typhoid and cholera. We are therefore dealing with something that is of vital interest to us all.

It is important that we meet our European and international obligations. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, mentioned the importance of meeting our EU obligations, whether that is under the urban waste water treatment directive, the water framework directive, the habitats directive, and so on. He also mentioned the danger of infraction proceedings, and I echo his question to the Minister about that.

These issues are important with regard to climate change. A couple of weeks ago, on the Floor of the House, we had an interesting debate on a report on agriculture and climate change, in which a number of Members took part. We must think here about the possible greater pressure on the waste water system from greater climate variability, the possibility of more intense rainfall and so on, as well as the pressures as a result of urbanisation and population growth. These are important issues, and given that this is a draft statement, I hope that we will have the opportunity to come back to this in due course.

In responding for the Official Opposition, we are happy to endorse the broad approach to these issues taken by the Government, which seems similar to that taken by the previous Government. However, there are a number of questions and concerns about particular aspects, and I will raise some of those this afternoon.

First, I must express a certain amount of frustration, because I do not feel that I am as well prepared for this as I would have liked, partly because the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee of the House of Commons produced its report on the draft national policy statement only today. I have had a chance to read the report, but I have not had a chance to read the mountain of evidence submitted to the committee that would have been relevant to the debate today. With hindsight, the timing of this debate would have been better if we could have had it a couple of weeks hence, perhaps after the Easter Recess, rather than at this time. It has certainly been frustrating not being able to read all the evidence that was given to the House of Commons EFRA Committee.

I also found it quite difficult to get hold of the appraisal of sustainability. It was not in the Printed Paper Office. I tried to get it via the Defra website. I know the Minister has heard me complain mildly about the information on the website. Every time I tried to get the appraisal of sustainability, I was informed:

“Our website is changing and links will have changed … Our old website remains available for some time”.

In the end, I did not manage to get the appraisal of sustainability at all, although I have read some of what it contains via other sources.

The Minister also mentioned the consultation, which ended on 22 February, and the fact that the department is currently considering the responses raised in the consultation. Again, given the timing of this debate, it would have been good to have greater feedback from the Government about what issues the consultation had raised and how the Government propose to deal with them. However, since this is a draft statement, I hope there will be an opportunity to come back to some of these issues in due course.

In its report, the House of Commons committee said that it felt that the consultation process on the NPS could have been given a higher profile. It was disappointed that the rate and number of responses were not as great as it would have liked. I noted that Defra organised various drop-in events in relation to the consultation; I saw the dates of 31 January and 1 February. Both events were held in London. Could the Minister give us some report on how those events went? Were they simply about the draft national policy statement itself or, because they were in London, were they more specifically related to the two London projects, which are also dealt with in the NPS document?

A more fundamental point about the consultation that the department held was made in the report of the EFRA Committee in the other place. It said it felt that in some ways the consultation could not perhaps affect the outcome of the NPS. The point that relates to that in the EFRA Committee report is in paragraphs 67 and 68, which say that in two areas the NPS seems already to have adopted a hard and fast position. The report states:

“For example, the draft NPS states that it must be designated if the UK is to meet its obligations under”,

EU directives. Secondly,

“the draft NPS appears to offer a fait accompli in regard to the Thames Tunnel, citing it the ‘preferred infrastructure solution’”.

The committee therefore recommends:

“Defra should clarify in its response to this Report how it has taken into account responses to all aspects of its draft NPS consultation in order to fulfil the Government’s requirement that formal consultation should take place at a stage when there is scope to influence the policy outcome”.

I would be interested in the Minister’s reaction to that if that is possible today. I appreciate that the Government, too, have only just been confronted with the committee’s report. Therefore, I am trying not to be unreasonable in my expectations. Presumably, however, these are issues to which the Government have given some thought.

Another thing that was raised by the EFRA Committee, and which I was also keen to raise, was the format of the NPS document itself. I was puzzled when I first looked at it. Half seemed to be a generic document, relating to the general principles governing such projects, and the other half related to two specific projects, both in London. The EFRA Committee has made a recommendation that the format be different; it would prefer a generic document, with back-up information relating to specific projects that could be contained in an annexe. The committee’s report makes the fair point that there is a lot to do with the two specific projects that does not relate to the overall objectives in the generic document, and that has little to do with it but a lot to do with very specific locational issues.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, raised another issue that the committee was concerned about—that, under the Planning Act 2008, waste water transfer schemes are not included. Given their importance, the committee suggests that the Government should rectify that and amend the 2008 Act. I wonder whether the Minister is in a position to comment on that.

I have some sympathy with another point that the committee made—that, even in the generic section of the NPS rather than the section that deals with the two London schemes, there is a danger of falling between two stools, and that the section is neither a succinct checklist for decision-makers nor a fully descriptive resource. Given the wide-ranging nature of the issue and the fact that so many organisations and other initiatives are involved, I totally accept that it is difficult to cover everything. However, the committee made the fair point that there needs to be clearer signposting and cross-referencing in the generic part of the report, to give people more comprehensive information or at least to tell them where such information can be found.

The committee also feels that the Government should give more details about the possible alternatives to these big infrastructure schemes, particularly through the sustainable drainage systems approach, which has the most wonderful acronym—SuDS. The use of SuDS and how they might mitigate some of the problems that we are dealing with is important, and it would be useful it the Minister had any comment on that part of the EFRA Committee report or the alternatives to such major schemes generally.

The overall feeling is that the London schemes are necessary but that they raise problems in connection with particular sites and in some of the details. My understanding is that the Thames Tunnel was originally costed at £2 billion and is set to rise to £3.6 billion. Could the reasons for that be forthcoming?

The consultation procedure has probably been better and more detailed in relation to the two London schemes than to the draft NPS. That is probably not surprising in a way, because the draft NPS deals largely with general principles, whereas the two London schemes affect specific neighbourhoods and large numbers of population. For that reason, it is not surprising that there is a great deal of consultation; I commend the consultation process that has taken place, which is not yet finished—I understand that a second stage will begin in the autumn. However, we have seen a considerable number of signatures; the Evening Standard reported last week that there were 10,000 signatures objecting to parts of the Thames Tunnel scheme. There have been some high-profile objectors, including Helen Mirren and David Bellamy objecting to parts of the Rotherhithe and Wapping sections of the tunnel, including the King’s Stairs Gardens. An important point was raised in relation to that park, which is that the objectors feel that there are alternative brownfield sites so there is no need for the use of any greenfield site. That is an important principle, which we are normally very keen on. If the Minister is able to comment on that, that would also be very useful. It is accepted that the main adverse effects of the schemes are likely to be restricted to the construction period, but I do not know if the Minister has information on concerns regarding the longer term effects of the two schemes that are included here.

On a completely separate issue, there is concern about the planning process, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, in terms of speed, efficiency and the provision of certainty for potential investors. That is an important aspect and although I realise that it is difficult to reconcile all these different demands, they are important elements that need to be considered. I note that the regulations on the transfer of private sewers to water companies have not yet been brought forward, even though the new system is supposed to be in force by October. Although that it is not dealt with specifically in the NPS, does the Minister have any information as to when these regulations are likely to be forthcoming and, if not, could he write to me to let me know?

My final question relates to another point that the noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, raised, which was the threshold for these schemes. Is this likely to be looked at again or, if not—I think that the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, also made this point—how frequent are such schemes likely to be in future? Is this likely to be limited to large urban areas? It is perhaps understandable that the first two are in London, the largest conurbation of all, but it would be useful to at least get some idea about the Government’s thinking on the scale of this.

I raise these questions not in opposition to the draft NPS on waste, but as a way of trying to echo some of the concerns expressed in another place about ways in which it could be improved and to make sure that, as this is a matter of such importance to the country as a whole, we will be able to come forward with the best possible system to meet our needs.