Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Friday 18th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to welcome in principle SIs 788 and 863 on opening up leisure facilities such as swimming pools, casinos, skating rinks, conference centres and so on. But one important point that I wish to echo is that it is a pity that it has taken so long to consider there important matters.

I regret SI 907 and its restrictions on gatherings of more than 30 with fixed penalties, including a gargantuan fine of £10,000. Even more concerning, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, has explained, is the subsequent SI imposing a rule of six on gatherings inside and outside. This will no doubt also be backed up by big fines and will steal half-term and Christmas from many, notably larger, families across our country.

These are examples of controls being brought in without proper parliamentary scrutiny or stakeholder consultation, as my noble friend Lord Cormack has said so eloquently. They are three of a huge pile of regulations, most of them valid for six months. I disagree with the approach reflected in SI 907 and the later rule of six one. These SIs will have major adverse effects on the economy and on treatment for other fatal diseases, at least until we have a vaccine—and that may take a very long time. When will the Government develop a new and more thoughtful strategy, which encompasses a degree of protection for those most at risk while restoring to others the possibility of an economic and social life that makes life worth living? Killing the economy, when so few people are likely to die now that treatments have improved, consigns our children and grandchildren to a needlessly bleak future.

This is a time of national emergency, and the Government need to step up to the mark.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Monday 14th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, we have a very clear example of what will happen to the economy if the infection comes back. We will have to close down society as we did before, and the economy will suffer profoundly as a result.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Most of the Covid measures made under the Public Health Act 1984 have major adverse effects on the economy and on the treatment of other fatal diseases. We cannot go on like this indefinitely until we have a vaccine. We need a new strategy that offers a degree of protection where it is needed, for example in care homes and for the very elderly, and that restores economic and social life. Are the Government now developing such a strategy, and when will we hear about it?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend describes in the most beautiful and succinct way exactly the strategy that we are following. It balances on the one hand a fight against disease, a breaking of the chain of transmission, the protection of the NHS and the saving of lives, and on the other a measured, thoughtful and reasonable opening up of the economy, workplaces, schools, shops and other valued economic assets. We are working hard to get that balance right. I believe that we have got it right, but we are open to suggestion and we review the situation incessantly. Until we have a vaccine and other therapeutics to fight this disease, that is the life and the road that we will be walking.

Covid-19 Update

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, is entirely right that the impact of this on our economy is profound, affecting the tourism economy, business and the professions. It is not something that we undertake lightly. However, it is the science-based belief of the CMO that the challenge presented by global travel is so profound that this is a step we have to take. When there is a surfeit of testing—when there is a vast amount of it—we may be able to put in place much more extensive measures, but, even so, the CMO remains extremely cautious on this point. However, we are working with Heathrow, the airlines and the airports to keep the matter under review. We take into consideration pilots and are working closely with them to try to resolve the issue.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I do not want to add to my noble friend’s difficulties, but I have received some worrying reports that pregnant women are prevented having the father of the baby with them right through labour or when undergoing related treatments, such as scans. This can be devastating, especially if there is bad news, such as a miscarriage. Can my noble friend the Minister do his best to get the rules changed across the country, so that parents can support each other at this vital time?

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, we had a very good PQ debate on 28 July about the need to give greater priority to the economic impact of Covid. I argued on the basis of analysis from leading academics that the costs of the severe restrictions that we have imposed for medical reasons are much larger than the benefits. So there was a strong case for the recent lifting of national lockdown restrictions. Taking a lead from my noble friend Lady Penn, who is in her place and spoke very convincingly then, there was agreement that measures adopted to counter any flare-up in infections should be carefully targeted locally rather than being general in effect. I therefore support these regulations, the provision they rightly make for local lockdowns and the January sunset clause.

However, I have four concerns today. First, since lockdowns and local measures have now become more routine, I think that it was wrong not to consult formally on these regulations, and I would like to know who was consulted informally beyond charities. As we have seen, local closures have a huge impact and we are now talking about very few deaths, as my noble friend Lady Noakes said, and much improved hospital care.

Secondly, with these emergency measures as with others, there is no attempt to measure economic impact and, I believe, still no economist on SAGE. All we know is that the debt load for our children to tackle is already horrific; we must reverse that trend.

Thirdly, the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care appears to be responsible for policing whether local measures are necessary and proportionate. How is this checked and enforced? Is there not a bias here in favour of caution and Covid, when the adverse impact on shops, education and the world of work and on the number of deaths of people on NHS waiting lists are a worry?

Fourthly, why is there not more local and workplace testing—including, indeed, here in the House of Lords? Care homes, in particular, are crying out for frequent testing. There is lots of capacity, so, as the Minister in charge, my noble friend should lay down the law.

Covid-19

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The truthful answer to the noble Baroness is that I know that there is an outbreak at Banham but I do not know the operational details of the kind she describes. What I can say is that the system is deliberately constructed so that a local director of public health, or the local authority, has the option, if they think it has local relevance, to bring in the resources that are needed for any particular arrangement. If, for some reason, a local director of public health, or the local infection control team, sees an opportunity for bringing in outside resources—a charity, a company, a technology—that is entirely appropriate and welcome. That is exactly the kind of local intelligence and expertise that we depend on to be effective. A central track and trace operation cannot do everything; that point that has been made in this Chamber hundreds of times and is a point that we entirely embrace. I am, in fact, hugely encouraged by the anecdote the noble Baroness tells.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I was not surprised to see a report in July that a majority of postal tests were not really working. My husband received a surveillance test, but the lancets did not make a hole big enough to provide enough blood, the little bottle for collecting it was too narrow, and follow-up tests were equally problematic. However, my question today is about masks, which were not mentioned in the Statement. On what scientific advice are government recommendations on the wearing of masks based? This is a subject of heated debate in my household—my positive experience of masks in Asia against the scepticism of the scientifically trained.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am terribly sorry that my noble friend’s husband had a tough time with the home testing kit. That is not the experience of hundreds of thousands of people who have taken those surveillance kits, and we know that for a fact because hundreds of thousands have been returned, providing incredibly valuable information that is informing all the conversations and decisions that we discussed earlier. As for masks, the CMO has made it very clear that the scientific evidence is not conclusive, but it is reasonably evenly balanced. It is extremely difficult to prove one way or the other the efficacy of masks, but the experience of countries that are fighting the epidemic effectively has often involved masks in one way or another, and my own experience in Asia reinforces that. That is why we have made the recommendations that we have, and we keep it under review until further science emerges. The British public have shown for themselves an interest in and a relatively high commitment to wearing masks, which I think is instructive.

Covid-19: Response

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Monday 27th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

The noble Lord is entirely right that Covid will lead to changes both subtle and profound in the way we do many things in our life, including patterns of commuting, and a renewed commitment to modes of transport that support our health, particularly cycling and walking. Local authorities such as TfL already have strong bicycling and walking plans. Those will undoubtedly be enhanced, and the Government entirely support them.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con) [V]]

My Lords, with an eye to its impact on any autumn resurgence, I hark back to questions asked on 11 March by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, and my noble friend Lord Forsyth, about deep cleansing. My experience of countries in Asia, such as Singapore and Korea, which also pioneered mask use, is that they appear to be much better than us at cleansing medical facilities and other risky premises. They use mists and sprays, applied aggressively in the hands of cleaning professionals, rather than relying on the random impact of risk assessments, NHS and care home cleaners and controllers, and personal hygiene routines, which the Minister emphasised. What does the latest guidance say about cleaning and cleansing? Can we do better?

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, we can undoubtedly do better in the area of hygiene. The guidance is very clear on what types of detergents work and how they should best be administered. I pay tribute to the cleaning staff in the NHS, who have worked incredibly hard during the epidemic, putting themselves at risk; they have done a very good job. None the less, our view is that the greatest challenge is to change the behaviours of the British public. Work still needs to be done to persuade all of us to wash our hands more and to maintain cleaner personal hygiene. Transmission of the disease happens most often through manual contact—touching the face and shaking hands. That can only be challenged by washing hands.

Covid-19

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

I completely understand the history of the noble Baroness’s role at City Hall, but I completely push back against her characterisation of the Prime Minister’s intentions. He has made it very clear that he is incredibly grateful for the hard work and sacrifice of those who work in the care homes sector, and I think we can take him at his word on that.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con) [V]]

There is a real degree of confusion about masks. Originally, Ministers said that they did not do much good; now, the President of the Royal Society claims they are essential. A study at Jena, west of Leipzig in Germany, underlines their value. Will my noble friend clarify the position and explain his reasoning?

[Lord Bethell]

The Government’s approach to the epidemic is to emphasise the three main pillars of our strategy: hygiene, social distancing and isolation. They are based on clear science and evidence. The issue of masks is highly contested. There is possibly a benefit from wearing masks—that is why we have put in place the requirement to wear masks on public transport—but the science remains clear that they are not a replacement for hygiene, social distancing or isolation. On that, we are clear.

Covid-19: Response

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I thank my noble friend profoundly for all that he and his health colleagues—and so many people everywhere, as he said—are doing to tackle this frightful disease, but I have a concern. I believe that the move to impose quarantine on arrivals from overseas is a real own goal. By all means, quarantine arrivals from countries that pose a particular health risk, but an indiscriminate prohibition will cut the legs off struggling sectors such as aviation, tourism and our itinerant financial and business services. This could contribute to the millions of unemployed people now expected later this year. Can the Minister please urge his colleagues to rethink?

Covid-19: Government Response

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Wednesday 6th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The Government’s commitment to isolation is spelled out clearly in guidelines published by Public Health England, and it is promoted every day with the Government’s “stay at home” slogan. On the 200,000-test aspiration, we have put in place a remarkable platform for testing. We have strong partnerships with important companies, we have sourced new supply chains of critical reagent swabs and other supplies that are in short measure, and we are making the logistical arrangements necessary for a massive expansion of testing. I believe that those will take us to whatever is necessary to meet the testing needs of the country.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My noble friend has described a situation that is still worrying. The rate of deaths and of new infections is still much higher than we wish, and we may soon be faced with a situation where the rules in different geographical locations or in different institutions vary, so we need more information. To enable us to seek optimum changes, could he please publish more information—for example, on how many cases came from hospitals and where, how many involve hospital or care workers, and how many involve other key workers, overseas visitors, self-isolators and the like?

[Lord Bethell]

The Government have gone about the Covid crisis with a great amount of transparency; a very large number of figures are published every single day. I am afraid that some of the questions my noble friend asks are beyond the reach of measurement in our statistical accountability at the moment, but I completely take on board and celebrate her call for transparency. We are working as hard as we can to get as many numbers out to the public as possible.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Neville-Rolfe Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, and other noble Lords who spoke on social care, but I will go elsewhere. I declare my business interests in the register.

I last spoke in a debate on a Queen’s Speech as recently as October. Then, I criticised the Labour Party’s declared plans to attack property rights. Fortunately, that threat has abated for the foreseeable future. It is also clear—I pay tribute to the Prime Minister—that Brexit will happen, allowing realistic plans to be made by the Government and economic actors right across the UK. With victory, however, comes responsibility. The country will expect the Government, with their comfortable majority, to get things moving again after the Brexit-induced paralysis of the past three years.

On public services, I very much welcome the new money for schools, surgeries, police, road and rail improvements, and especially GPs, as well as the multiyear settlement for the NHS and schools. We apparently face a major shake-up in government and the Civil Service. When I moved to business in 1997, I learned things that government lacked: lean thinking; innovation; customer focus; long-term forecasting based on dynamics and demographics; and how to lead, manage and motivate. While some of this toolkit of a successful global company can be adapted to government, the latter is of course more complex and requires a wider range of skills.

My concern about the direction of travel as reported in the press is that No. 10 may try to grab too much power and use it unsatisfactorily rather than ensuring that departments are fit for purpose and able to progress under effective Ministers. The truth is that Downing Street—I have worked there—does not know enough to run the country on its own.

To be a successful nation at a time when possibly as much as 40% of GDP is knowledge-based requires a first-class education system. It was a wake-up call when I discovered in 2014 that we were 24th in the PISA tables for maths, and not much better in reading or science. Mainly thanks to the brave Gove reforms, we are now 18th in maths, ahead of France, Germany and the US. My noble friend the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, touched on PISA. I add that England consistently ranks above the higher-spending Scottish and Welsh systems. To compete, especially in Asia, we need to do more. We need good education for everyone from the most to the least talented. Our vocational education, including our apprenticeship system, continues to lag woefully behind many others.

The wrong sort of taxes can also be an issue, for example, business rates, where the tax is badly designed and its effects have been especially malign for retail. Given the prospect of more job losses, I was delighted to see the promise to bring forward fundamental change. Radical, rapid reform is essential.

Brexit gives us a wonderful opportunity to simplify our rule book. We need to make our bureaucrats more business-friendly rather than cautious and obsessed with obtaining and using new fining powers. Looking at the proposals on financial services, I worry that there seems to be more on regulatory protection than is compatible with the stated intent of supporting the UK’s competitiveness and its position as an international services centre.

Financial services is our biggest sector, representing £127 billion of GDP. Many regulatory changes, often Brussels-based, followed the financial crisis and brought in a period during which productivity in the financial sector plummeted. This obviously reflects the destruction of capital but also, I fear, the build-up of control and bureaucracy, especially for smaller players. Indeed, as we heard from my noble friend Lord Hodgson, that is not always effective. A change of leadership at every level is an opportunity. I hope that the new Governor of the Bank of England, Andrew Bailey, will tackle red tape better. He did this brilliantly with his simple regulatory Sandbox for new fintech businesses.

Finally, our regulation should start in our own back yard with HMRC. If well run, this could support business and frustrated taxpayers and actually raise more tax.

There have been many constructive references to climate change this week. I want to make one point. We need to shift from virtue signalling, as epitomised in last year’s Bill on net zero, to action. We have had years of engagement, and during that period, we could have made much more progress with simple plans and encouragement to business.

This is the most wide-ranging of debates. I have not even had time to talk about online harms—highlighted in an amusing speech by the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths—antimicrobial resistance or health data. There is so much to do and to gain. Focus is essential. We have five years and we must use them well.