Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I note the hon. Gentleman’s remarks, and I also note the efforts of the CWU on this matter. Sadly, in recent years we have seen a number of serious injuries from dogs, not just to postal workers but to other individuals. That is why I am pleased that the Bill contains measures on dangerous dogs. The first stage is for the Bill to be supported in its progress through this House and the other place.

Parts 1 to 5 will ensure that the police, local authorities and others have a comprehensive set of fast, flexible and responsive powers to tackle the scourge of antisocial behaviour. We should not forget that much of what is labelled antisocial behaviour is in fact crime. Even low-level public order offences or criminal damage can be frightening and upsetting for victims, and can blight the appearance of a neighbourhood. If left unchecked, the cumulative impact of even a small number of repeat instances can have devastating consequences.

I would be the first to accept that legislation by and of itself is not the answer to antisocial behaviour. What is needed is for the police, councils, landlords and other agencies to work effectively together to address local problems before they get out of hand. In many cases, informal, non-statutory remedies can be used to nip a problem in the bud. There is clearly a need, however, for more formal powers. They need to be fit for purpose, quick and easy to use, effective at changing behaviours and capable of addressing the full spectrum of problems that can afflict communities. That does not describe the powers available under Labour’s legislation.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend explain that this is the first opportunity the House has had seriously to consider revising the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, which was good legislation but has required some revision? For what reason have her Department and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs drawn back from the full consolidation of the legislation, as possibly initially considered?

[Mrs May]

Many comments are made about the dangerous dogs legislation and its impact. It is right that we have looked simply at the area where we feel that more legislation is required. This is already a lengthy Bill covering several issues. Rather than trying to consolidate the existing legislation in this Bill, the important issue is filling in the gaps by addressing the powers that still need to be available to people.

The previous antisocial behaviour legislation provided a veritable alphabet soup of powers: the ASBI—antisocial behaviour injunction; the DBO—drinking banning order; the ISO—individual support orders; the DPPO—designated public places order; and of course the ASBO and many more. I am sure that each of the nine major pieces of antisocial behaviour law passed by the previous Administration was enacted with the best of intentions, but that piecemeal approach, with each new Bill responding to the latest manifestation of antisocial behaviour, has left practitioners with 19 separate powers. The result has been not effectiveness but confusion about which of those powers should and could be used in any particular case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss McIntosh]

When we were in opposition there was a clear understanding that antisocial behaviour orders were not up to the job, as my right hon. Friend has said. So that the House can have a clear understanding, can she explain the difference between dog control notices, which seem to operate so effectively in Scotland, and the notices that form part of this Bill?

[Mrs May]

What I am trying to explain to the House is that the new orders and powers we are introducing in this legislation will make it possible to take the sort of effective action that can be taken under a dog control notice, albeit without having to introduce something that is specifically called a dog control notice, with limits around that. The flexibility will be there because we are introducing wider powers, but they can be used to address the specific issue of dangerous dogs and their behaviour.

--- Later in debate ---

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

It is an honour to follow the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling). I congratulate her and pay tribute to her for the work she has done following the tragedy of her constituent, Jade Anderson. I was delighted to meet briefly Jade’s parents, Michael and Shirley, and I hope that this evening will bring some solace to them, as they see how widespread is the interest in the issue of irresponsible dog owners and dangerous dogs.

Our Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee has produced two reports that are relevant to this debate: the 7th report on “Dog Control and Welfare” and the Government response thereto; and, perhaps still more relevant, our 1st report on the “Draft Dangerous Dogs (Amendment) Bill”. I say in passing, if I may, that it is a matter of regret to the Select Committee and to those who submitted either oral or written evidence to our pre-legislative scrutiny that the Government published the Bill, particularly clauses 98 and 99, before we were able to publish our pre-legislative scrutiny. Normally, Select Committees meet at any time, including in the recess, but the one time when we are prohibited from meeting is during Prorogation. I pay tribute to those who sit with me, serving on the Committee, particularly those who helped us draft the reports and the witnesses who were able to respect a very tight timetable. Unfortunately, we were unable to draft the report before Prorogation, so our views were not taken into account when clauses 98 and 99 were published. That is obviously, as I say, a matter of regret.

Like other right hon. and hon. Members, I would like to take the opportunity to welcome the extension of the Bill to include attacks on private property, which I think will address the issues raised by the hon. Members for Bolton West and for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) who had two of the most tragic cases. It is important to rehearse here that since 2007 nine people have died as a result of dog attacks, of whom seven were children. The annual cost to the NHS of treating such injuries is around £3 million. During my first ever election campaign, I was bitten in a rather sensitive area at the top of my thigh by a dog of immense good taste. It went unreported because the dog was owned by a Conservative supporter, and I was not going to take the matter any further. Some eight attacks on assistance dogs and hundreds of livestock attacks happen each month. As we know, a number of communications and other workers are similarly attacked.

We said in our previous report in February that the Government’s belated proposals for improvement were woefully inadequate. The Bill’s proposals are welcome, but we say that they are limited in scope and fall short of providing a comprehensive and effective regime for tackling the increasing problem of out-of-control dogs. Strong measures to prevent attacks are conspicuously absent. I shall talk in a moment about the dog control notices.

What the hon. Member for Bolton West said earlier about the issue of resources must not go uncovered this evening. The administration of dog control notices in Scotland is immensely resource intensive; it is labour intensive, and I think that the Government should do some work on this issue in Committee before the Bill returns to the House on Report. Other areas that are resource intensive include dog control notices, the issue of stray dogs and dog welfare.

We welcome the extension of the provisions to deal with attacks on private property, which was the one loophole that we thought should be covered. We welcome, too, the extension to cover attacks on assistance dogs. We must recognise this evening, however, that the Government have wasted an opportunity to bring forward wider measures, giving a full and comprehensive review of all the laws applying in one consolidated piece of legislation.

The hon. Member for Bolton West regretted that the legislation would not cover attacks on all protected animals, and I would refer to livestock in that context. Many Members will have received representations from Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, which opposes breed-specific legislation and does not believe that clause 99 will offer the necessary solutions. It is also concerned about the replacement of dog control notices with public spaces protection orders.

I hope that the Minister will give a little more substance to what was said by the Home Secretary. She listed the six powers provided by the Bill, including the public protection order, the community protection order and the dispersal power, but I remain to be convinced that any sort of order will be specific enough. The evidence given to the Committee was very persuasive, suggesting that dog control notices are working effectively in Scotland, and I think that it behoves the Government to explain to the House why they have rejected them. Control notices are very specific, relating to specific dogs in specific areas, and I agree with the hon. Member for Bolton West and others that their retention might prevent future tragedies. If a dog appears to be out of control, we need to be able to bear down on its irresponsible owner. A dog will only behave as it has been taught to behave.

I disagree with the hon. Lady on just one issue. When dog licences existed, only 50% of owners bothered to purchase them. I fear that responsible owners will microchip their dogs but irresponsible owners will not, and that there will continue to be a drain on charities for that simple reason.

The Communication Workers Union considers part 7 to be a missed opportunity, believing that many of its workers need stronger protection. I urge the Minister to be honest with the House—I am sure that he will be nothing other than honest; that was a bad word to use. I urge him to be fulsome in explaining to the House in more detail why the Government have rejected dog control notices. As I have said, we have been persuaded that they are working well in part of the United Kingdom.

While we accept most of the Bill’s provisions, we reserve our right, as a Select Committee, to table amendments on Report if, having conducted pre-legislative scrutiny, we remain dissatisfied. The draft Bill is welcome as far as it goes in extending provision to attacks made by dangerous dogs anywhere, but we have expressed our reservations about the extent of the “householder case”, and I hope that the Minister will elaborate on that in his response. We would also welcome clarification of both the definition of an “assistance dog” and the new provisions relating to “fit and proper” dog owners.

We are disappointed that the Government have not taken account of the benefits to the public of meeting the expectations that the hon. Lady said had been raised, and the benefits to law enforcers of consolidating the myriad legislative measures on dog control and breeding. There have been many newspaper reports of attacks by dogs on other animals—not just other dogs but, in particular, horses—which are a real problem in the countryside. While we appreciate DEFRA’s concern about the need to retain remedies in both statute and common law, we are not convinced that consolidation would lead to a diminution of the range of legal options available. I believe that the bulk of the evidence given to the Committee demonstrated that a single unified Act would provide a clear and holistic set of measures for those who are given the task of enforcing dog legislation.

The Minister has his work cut out for him, and we shall monitor him very closely indeed.