Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
Main Page: Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Labour - Life peer)Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch Excerpts(10 years, 10 months ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
“Licensing powers in relation to Category B gaming machines
(1) In Part 8 of the Gambling Act 2005, after section 166 insert—
“166A Review of licence
(1) A licensing authority may, at any time after the granting of a remote operating licence in conjunction with a betting premises licence, review the terms of the licence and—
(a) revoke it with regards to Category B gaming machines; or(b) reduce the number of Category B gaming machines that the licence authorises the holder to make available to use.(2) In exercising its discretion to review a licence under subsection (1), the licensing authority may have regard to the views of those in the local community.”
(2) In Part 10 of the Gambling Act 2005, after section 240 insert—
“240A Circumstances of use for Category B gaming machines
(1) The Secretary of State shall make regulations controlling the circumstances in which a B gaming machine is made available for use in accordance with the provisions of a remote operating licence in conjunction with a betting premises licence.
(2) Regulations under subsection (1) shall, in particular, make provision to—
(a) increase the minimum time between plays on category B gaming machines;(b) require category B gaming machines to display information constituting a warning about the amount of time the machine has been used by the user and the aggregate amounts paid to use the machine, including amounts won and lost as prizes;(c) require category B gaming machines to enforce breaks between periods of play; and(d) require that where category B gaming machines are made available for use, at least two members of the licence holder’s staff are present on the licensed premises while machines are in use.””
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, Category B gaming machines are otherwise known as fixed-odds betting terminals. I very much hope that, following the example given by the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, today, raising this issue is not going to land me on the front page of the Daily Sport.
The massive expansion of these machines in high street betting shops has been a cause for concern right across the political spectrum. For example, last week at Prime Minister’s Questions, in response to a Question on this issue from Ed Miliband, the Prime Minister said:
“I absolutely share the concern about that issue … There are problems in the betting and gaming industry, and we need to look at them”.—[Official Report, Commons, 8/1/14; col. 294.]
I also understand that taking action on FOBTs is Lib Dem conference policy so I hope that we can have a cross-party response to this today. We have therefore tabled these amendments linking this question to the issue of remote gambling licences as an opportunity to debate this issue and to probe whether the Government are taking sufficient steps to curb the unwelcome growth of these machines.
Our amendment would effectively give new powers to local licensing committees to prevent betting shops providing these machines or to reduce their number, taking into account the views of the local community. It would also allow for regulations to make provision for increasing the minimum time between plays; requiring the machines to display a warning of overuse; building in enforced breaks between plays; and requiring at least two members of staff to be present when such machines were in use.
These protections are essential to protect local communities from the clustering of high street betting shops in areas of high social and economic deprivation. Regrettably, betting shops are becoming increasingly reliant on the income from these machines rather than from traditional forms of betting, and it seems that this income is being drawn from poor and often desperate individuals who can least afford to gamble in this way. Meanwhile, local councils from around the country report that they feel powerless to prevent the expansion of these shops, even when they are opposed by the local community. Indeed, a Local Government Association survey in 2012 found that 68% of people wanted the planning laws changed to address this issue.
These machines are the source of some of the worst examples of gambling addiction. It is possible to lose up to £100 every 20 seconds, which is £18,000 an hour. The speed of play is faster than a roulette table and it can happen without any staff contact or intervention. All this is happening on high streets in a fairly unregulated way. I do not think that anyone foresaw that betting shops would be dominated by these machines when the Gambling Act was passed in 2005. Our responsibility is to provide greater consumer protection from the magnet of compulsive gambling that these machines represent. This is not about imposing a blanket ban but about enabling local communities to have a greater say in what should happen on their high streets and, if necessary, to limit or reduce the preponderance of these machines.
There are other steps that would help. Extending the time between each play would allow the user more time for reflection between games, breaking the spell of compulsive behaviour and allowing staff members to intervene if they had become concerned about the amount of time that a player had been spending on the machine. It would also set more sensible limits on how much time could be spent and lost in a given timeframe. A requirement for the machines to interact with the player, to give warnings about addiction and about the cumulative sums being spent, might also break the addictive cycle. Requiring more than one member of staff to be available is an essential feature of staff safety, as there have been a number of violent incidents involving punters who have lost large sums of money on these machines. It would also enable a staff member more effectively to supervise the use of these machines, and there is an added need for better staff training in this respect.
There is a separate issue about the level of stakes and prizes. I rehearsed these arguments with the noble Lord, Lord Bates, in November when we were considering the latest gaming regulations. At that time, the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, who contributed to the debate, made the important point that local sports clubs quite often rely on the income from these machines. However, here we are talking very specifically about the regulation of betting shops on local high streets—which, if you like, are walk-in betting shops—rather than about the provision in local sports clubs. I continue to feel that the Government should have used the triennial review to act on the high stakes offered by these machines.
At that time, the Minister referred to the review being carried out by the Responsible Gambling Strategy Board, which is due to report later this year. However, there is a concern that this report will not give a decisive lead on the issue. There is rather a history of inconclusive reports in this sector, which in the past seem to have been used as an excuse for doing nothing to intervene. I agree with my noble friend Lord Lipsey that the evidence base is rather difficult to decipher—noble Lords will note that, for that reason, I have not quoted a great deal of statistics on the scale of the problem—but there is enough anecdotal evidence to show that there is a significant problem here which needs to be addressed.
I hope that the Minister is able to reassure us that the Government are planning to get a grip and to act to regulate the sector more effectively following the example shown by the leader of the Labour Party, who has already made it clear that he will take action to sort out this problem. I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Lipsey and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, for their comments and support. I say to Lord Clement-Jones that I said in my opening comments that no one foresaw what was going to happen to fixed-odds betting terminals, and that was also acknowledged in the debate in the Commons last week. We accept that we have learnt from that experience. No one had envisaged that we would be where we are now, so I think he is being a bit ungenerous in not accepting that learning experience.
I said, too, that this was a probing amendment. I do not think that we got the wording exactly right; there is obviously more work to be done. I heard what the Minister said about existing licensing regulations but I therefore do not understand why local authorities up and down the country are saying that they are finding it impossible to get a grip and to control the number of betting shops and fixed-odds betting terminals on the high street. There is a challenge that we need collectively to address.
My concern remains that the Responsible Gambling Strategy Board will produce an inconclusive report; there is a tendency for that to happen. It has been set quite a challenge in being asked to show the relationship between the use of fixed-odds betting terminals and compulsive gambling, and I am not sure that it is going to be able to produce a coherent piece of work between now and the summer that proves that one way or the other. The last thing we want is for further work to be necessary—for everyone to say, “It is inconclusive and we need more research”—when we can all see what the problem is and the issues that need to be addressed.
My only other comment is that if the Gambling Commission has drawn up the rules that are in operation so far, which I think is what the Minister was saying, we should be saying to the commission that it needs to go away and have a rethink. The speed of play, the levels of stakes and so on are disproportionate and somebody needs to take action to reduce those.
I very much welcome the opportunity to have this initial debate, and I hope that we can carry on with it. This is an important issue. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
“Dormant accounts
(1) The Secretary of State shall consult on appropriate ways to require licensed remote gambling operators to disclose (as a condition of their licence) the amounts held by them by way of—
(a) winnings of UK customers unclaimed for a period of more than one calendar year, and(b) sums in dormant accounts of UK customers.(2) A dormant account shall for this purpose be an account which has been inactive for at least one calendar year.”
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, this amendment concerns the issue of dormant accounts and the use of the money that resides within them. There are currently millions of pounds tied up in accounts that represent unclaimed winnings or, for example, bets placed on horses that do not run but are never reclaimed. However, the actual sums involved are difficult to express accurately because it has never been in the interests of the industry to disclose them. The amendment would introduce a greater level of transparency about the sums involved by requiring disclosure as a condition of the licence. This could be a prelude to an agreed plan to use the money more constructively. When this was discussed in the Commons, it was reported that Don Foster had produced a report in 2011 identifying the levels of funds involved and that on the back of that an attempt was made to reach a voluntary agreement with the industry but, perhaps unsurprisingly, this was unsuccessful.
Meanwhile, there is considerable scope for this money to be put to good use—for example, into research on treatment for problem gambling, or perhaps to invest in the development of grass-roots sports—so these investments could in turn prove to be to the benefit of the industry in the longer term. This strategy would be consistent with the policies of this Government and the previous Government for the use of dormant accounts in other sectors. For example, dormant bank accounts and unclaimed lottery winnings are used to support good causes.
Our amendment is a reasonable first step to identify the sums involved. Obviously, there would need to be further dialogue with the sector about how the sums were identified prior to putting into action a plan to use the funds for good use, which is why our amendment would require the Secretary of State to consult on the arrangements. This is very much a first step.
When this was discussed in the Commons, the Minister, Helen Grant, argued that such an amendment was not necessary because she would be considering Don Foster’s proposals after the Bill was passed. That statement does not fill me with confidence. If Don Foster’s report was received in 2011 and it is now 2014, one could ask why it has taken the Government quite so long to get around to considering it. It seems that the Government need some encouragement to act, which is precisely what our very modest amendment hopes to achieve. I beg to move.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her amendment reflecting dormant accounts. While in the Government’s view there is no need for further primary legislation to enable the Government to undertake a consultation, we have already said that we will consider the recommendations of the Foster report after this Bill has been enacted. The Bill will make significant changes to the regulation of a large number of betting accounts, so it is right that we consider the report’s recommendations after the implementation of our remote gambling proposals.
The Government already have the power to impose a specific licence condition to gather information if we choose to do so following appropriate consultation. I am happy to confirm that if in due course we consider it necessary to progress the report’s recommendations, we would act to gather this information. On that basis, I hope that the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, I very much thank the Minister for that contribution. On the basis of the further work that is taking place, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
“Remote gambling licensees and customer protection
Holders of licences for remote gambling operations shall be required to participate in a programme of research into and treatment of problem gambling in accordance with arrangements to be determined by the Secretary of State in regulations in the form of a statutory instrument approved by both Houses of Parliament, and a levy for that purpose may be imposed under section 123 of the Gambling Act 2005.”
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, we have already touched on the lack of research, particularly into problem gambling. I want to make a couple of quick points in support of our amendment. We have said that there is not enough research, which I think we all have acknowledged. It also seems that the industry is spending relatively small sums of money on research. At the moment, the amount of money paid by the sector is disturbingly small. It is estimated that the industry as a whole is worth some £6 billion a year, yet the amount available to the Responsible Gambling Trust through the voluntary levy is just over £5 million a year, with only 10% of that being spent on research.
When this was debated in the Commons, my colleague the Shadow Minister, Clive Efford, pointed out that when he looked on the Responsible Gambling Trust’s website, a lot of its activity seemed to be involved in fundraising. That is all very worthy but you would think that there was enough money around in the sector that it did not have to spend its time fundraising to pay for its activities. There should be a firmer way to fund this through a more consolidated levy. More work needs to be done. We need that research and we need to ensure that the funding is available. I beg to move.
Lord Gardiner of Kimble
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her amendment. I entirely agree that the gambling industry should play its part in contributing to the research, education and treatment of problem gambling. The Government believe that the best solution is for the industry to recognise its responsibilities voluntarily. The industry must continue to help to tackle problem gambling. The current voluntary arrangements were revised only in 2012 and the Government are satisfied that the system is working as was intended in the Budd report of 2001, which recommended the arrangements.
As the noble Baroness said, at present the voluntary industry funding scheme provides around £5 million a year, 80% of which goes to bodies like GamCare, the Gordon Moody Association and the Soho clinic to provide advice and treatment. This funding has supported the introduction of a free-to-use national telephone helpline and the development of GambleAware, a general gambling information website. Useful work has been done in this area by the Responsible Gambling Trust and its predecessor body with local clinics or advice centres, to see how those developing problems can be identified and helped. In addition, the Soho clinic has piloted ways in which the NHS can help those with severe problems. The Responsible Gambling Strategy Board and the Responsible Gambling Trust are also considering how best to capture evidence of the actual harm from gambling to strengthen the case for greater support from local government, from NHS resources and, importantly, from the industry.
I hope that the Committee will be reassured that problem gambling and research into its prevention and treatment continue to be high on the agenda for the Government and the Gambling Commission. The Government will continue to monitor the effectiveness of the voluntary arrangements, and will of course take appropriate action if necessary. On that basis, I very much hope that the noble Baroness will be prepared to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that. We have identified that there is not enough money available for research and for helping those who have an addiction and problems with gambling. I understand what the noble Lord is saying about the voluntary levy. We think that our suggestion for a compulsory levy is still worthy of merit and would like to lay that on the table for further consideration. However, in the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.