Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2015

Baroness Jolly Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2015 Grand Committee

actually mean in those circumstances?

[Baroness Jolly (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his explanation of the order and note that his speech is somewhat familiar, as I delivered it myself last year. These things do not change an awful lot so I shall not take long.

The order reflects the constitutional requirement under the Bill of Rights that the Armed Forces may not be maintained except with the consent of Parliament. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, has repeated some of the points and questions that I probably failed to answer last year around this whole issue of what happens should we not agree. But I would like to highlight an area that had its own legislation passed earlier this year—the Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Act 2015—in particular, complaints, which are covered in this order.

The 2014 continuation order covered the old complaints system. The 2015 legislation to set up the new Service Complaints Ombudsman amended the Armed Forces Act 2006. Will the Minister confirm that this continuation order incorporates the service complaints paragraphs of that Act? The ombudsman set up in the Act will have stronger powers than the current commissioner to investigate any maladministration in the handling of a service complaint. Will the Minister also confirm that as the Act goes live in 2016, the system set up is on track to meet the change in legislation?

I note, too, my responses last year with regard to the letter from noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, to the department, and Mr Morrison’s response on the 2014 order. Can the Minister confirm whether he believes that the Explanatory Memorandum of this year reflects the contents of Mr Morrison’s letter? Will the noble Earl also confirm that next year we will be debating a 2016 Armed Forces Act, which we expect to, as it is done every five years, and does the Minister have any inkling of that timetable?

As the Minister has highlighted, we have the opportunity in next week’s debate on role and capabilities of the UK Armed Forces to explore in more detail issues of a more specific nature, and I hope that the Minister will accept the point made in last year’s debate, which the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, repeated today, that a general debate is useful. The issue could helpfully be swept up in the debate next week and the Minister could respond to areas that are defence related but are only tangentially connected with role and capability. In the mean time, I am happy to agree to the continuation order.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, for their comments and questions. I shall address them in turn.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, devoted his remarks to questions around the hypothesis that were this order not to be approved, the effect on the Armed Forces would be to render them, in practice, completely ineffective. I can confirm that. The practical effect of not renewing the Act would be that the Armed Forces as we know them would cease to exist because, among the many important provisions in the Act, the key provisions are perhaps the duty to obey lawful commands and the mechanism for enforcing that duty. Without these, the Armed Forces would be unable to continue as disciplined forces. They would continue to owe allegiance to Her Majesty but to deploy the Armed Forces in practice or in theatre would be rendered almost impossible because the system of obeying duties would fall away.