Children and Families Bill

Baroness Howarth of Breckland Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Storey]

I support my noble friend Lady Brinton on this excellent probing amendment, and will briefly take the opportunity to say that often the bully needs support as well. I have seen many occasions where that support has been given to the bully. Sometimes the bully, with the support of the parents, is referred and the problems are sorted. I say this with great caution but often, quite rightly, we put all our emphasis on the poor child or young person who is being bullied and we forget about the bully. Often with the bully, it is a cry or plea for help. As well as doing all the excellent things that my noble friend Lady Brinton is saying we should, we have to find and understand that need.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB)]

My Lords, I had not intended to intervene on this at this late hour, but I am tempted to, as I thought that every school had to have a bullying strategy and that there was a code. It may sit dustily on a shelf in the headmaster’s study but it is supposed to be there. I thought schools had to have a practice and some sort of plan to involve children and young people in that strategy. ChildLine has certainly produced peer programmes down the years where young people have worked together to prevent bullying themselves, through their councils. Much as I support the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, in her efforts, it is my understanding that this should already be in every school.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I did not want our relative silence on these Benches to be interpreted as meaning that we were not in full support of the noble Baroness’s amendment. She will know that we have consistently worked with and supported her on these issues. Because of the lateness of the hour, I do not intend reading the speech that I had prepared, but will simply say that we think that having a national anti-bullying strategy combined with the code of practice, in the way that is described in this amendment, is a sensible staged approach to dealing with this very sensitive and growing issue. We accept that head teachers and teachers must have some discretion, as I think the Minister said in Committee, but they also need help and support. This package is the right combination for that and I hope that the noble Lord is able to persuade us that the Government are taking this seriously going forward.

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Moved by

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

63AZA: After Clause 104, insert the following new Clause—
“Parental bereavement leave
In the Employment Rights Act 1996, after section 57A insert—“57AA Parental bereavement leave
(1) The Secretary of State must make regulations entitling an employee who satisfies specified conditions—
(a) as to duration of employment, and(b) as to relationship with a child,to be absent from work on leave under this section in consequence of the death of a child.(2) Regulations under subsection (1) shall secure that, where an employee has a right to leave under this section, he or she is entitled to a leave period of at least 2 weeks.
(3) Regulations under subsection (1) shall secure that an employee who exercises his or her right to leave under this section—
(a) is entitled, for such purposes and to such extent as may be prescribed, to the benefit of the terms and conditions of employment which would have applied if he or she had not been absent, (b) is bound, for such purposes and to such extent as may be prescribed, by any obligations arising under those terms and conditions (except in so far as they are inconsistent with subsection (1)), and(c) is entitled to return from leave to a job of a prescribed kind.(4) In subsection (3)(a) “terms and conditions of employment” includes—
(a) matters connected with an employee’s employment whether or not they arise under his or her contract of employment; and(b) terms and conditions about remuneration.”.”

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, in a few weeks, I will join families and children celebrating 20 years of the work of the charity Little Hearts Matter. The team provides advice, information and emotional support where a child has been born with half a heart, but the fact that we have surviving young people with us is significant. A little over 20 years ago, they all died. The survival of these young people is cause for celebration and recognition of the research, surgery and care developed over the years.

However, children continue to die because of the complexity of the condition, as they do with many other conditions. Many of our members who have lost their children due to complex congenital heart disease after a long struggle through treatment struggle thereafter because of the present regulations. There is little more devastating than the loss of your child. It creates emotional, mental and physical effects which overwhelm parents. To be told that you are entitled to only three days’ bereavement leave from your employer is neither caring nor supportive. There is much to organise and it cannot be good for the employer, as a bereaved parent is unlikely to be functioning at a normal level.

Let me briefly give two examples. The first concerns the father of a three year-old boy who died following complex surgery. The father had saved up his annual leave to be with his son through the surgery. After the operation, he stayed by his son’s bedside for two weeks as he slowly died. This used up all his leave. When his son died, the father rang his employer to explain and was told that he had to be back in three days. The funeral had not been organised at that point. The father lost his job because he could not return to work. He needed to be with his family.

In a second case, a father had known that his baby would be born with a complex heart condition. He had organised leave for the delivery and immediate surgical period, but his son died some weeks after the surgery. His employer told him that he had had enough leave and, as he had known his son was going to die, he would expect him back in three days having organised everything. His GP issued him a sick note to allow him more time to be with his wife, which his employer contested. The stress of fighting his employer, grieving for his son and supporting his wife created long-term illness.

Of course, this is not the whole story. There are many employers who support and help their employees through this difficult time but it is a lottery not a right. Relying on employers to be caring and supportive of their employees is clearly not enough. The law does not support the bereaved. With the increased recognition that parents have a right to be with their children after birth, it seems extraordinary that we do not extend the same thoughtfulness to parents who have lost a child. I realise that there might be nervousness that this could be a burden on business. Thankfully, the numbers affected are relatively small and we emphasise again that many employers act with compassion and sympathy and give time to their employees. However, where this is not the case, the impact on parents is huge.

This amendment would give the Government powers to regulate for statutory leave for bereaved parents. We hope this is reasonable—it allows the Government an opportunity to consult on the detail and to ensure the implementation is not burdensome but compassionate. It would make a huge difference to that small minority of parents who find themselves treated without compassion at some of the most difficult times of their lives. I beg to move.

[Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab)]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for moving this amendment and for doing so so movingly. I am also grateful to the Minister for meeting with me last week to discuss this issue and, in particular, I am grateful to those who have been part of the campaign, led by Lucy Herd, for their support and for carrying on offering heartbreaking personal stories to illustrate the need for this measure.

Just today, Lucy received an e-mail that said:

“My only son died last Tuesday (7th Jan) and my company policy states that I only receive two days in compassionate leave, the rest has to come out of my annual leave allowance. I think it should be law for people who have lost an immediate family member to have as much time off as they need”.

Lucy also told me of Rhian, who had been in touch through Twitter. About a year after Lucy’s son Jack died, Rhian’s 18 month-old, George, choked on the food that his dad was feeding him at home. Sadly George died. His father was distraught but was given only two days’ compassionate leave by his employer. He committed suicide seven days later. Rhian has now lost her son and her husband. That is a particularly tragic story, but it is worth noting that 90% of parents who lose a child also suffer relationship breakdown. Many parents lose a partner as well as a child.

These stories and many more like them show there is a problem. I read out different examples in Committee, showing that the NHS can be a remarkably uncompassionate employer at times. Those at the top of these big organisations will be appalled at how their rules can sometimes be applied. I heard today of a middle-ranking employee of one of our big high street banks who rang his boss the evening that his wife died following an illness. His boss was very sorry but there was a vitally important meeting the next day and could he please make sure he was in by 6.30 am.

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[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, I am glad of the opportunity to return to this important issue on Report. The noble Lord, Lord Knight of Weymouth, has spoken passionately about this matter at Second Reading, in Grand Committee and again this evening. I have been deeply moved and saddened by the distressing accounts that I have heard of employees not receiving the support from their employers that they needed at such a difficult time. We have heard more tragic examples this evening from the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, and the noble Lord, Lord Knight.

Losing a loved one is always a difficult experience. Losing a child must cause a grief that is beyond words. It is of course right that employees are able and feel comfortable to take time off to grieve in those awful circumstances. Grief is extremely personal, and everybody copes with the challenges that it brings in different ways. Individual employers are best placed to respond to the varied needs of grieving employees in a sensitive and appropriate way. Fortunately, as has been pointed out this evening, many employers are understanding and compassionate, enabling individuals to take all the time off that they need when they need it. However, as I acknowledged during Grand Committee, this is sadly not always the case.

At present, there is very little advice and support available to employers to help them to develop company policies or approaches to time off for bereaved employees. This lack of advice can mean that employers, particularly small employers who have no experience of bereavement in the workplace, are confronted with a situation that they do not know how to deal with. As a result, they may inadvertently fail to give their employees the compassion and support that they need at what is, we can all agree, a particularly vulnerable time.

The Government are committed to ensuring that employers have access to the right advice and information to facilitate good employment relationships with all their employees. When this issue was debated during Grand Committee, I gave a commitment that the Government would bring forward comprehensive guidance to support employers in meeting the needs of bereaved employees in the workplace. I am pleased to be able to announce today that ACAS has agreed to draw on its wealth of experience in workplace relations to develop guidance that will support employers in delivering their approach to bereavement. It is, of course, essential that we harness the knowledge and experience of expert organisations to get this guidance right so that it can support employers and employees in the most effective way. For this reason, ACAS will work in close partnership with Cruse, the leading national charity for bereaved people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and other expert organisations during the development and refinement of the guidance. The first round-table meeting with these organisations is scheduled for as soon as 5 February.

ACAS intends to road-test the draft guidance in a series of seminars with employers around the regions to ensure that the guidance is relevant and adds value. We expect the guidance to be published this summer and I encourage noble Lords who are in touch with organisations that have experience of these issues, and who would like to be involved in reviewing the draft guidance, to get in touch with my officials. Indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Knight, and I had conversations about this last week. This guidance will be comprehensive, covering the existing statutory entitlement to time off for dependants as well as providing advice and support about what is best practice in this area. It is essential that employers, as well as employees, are aware of the statutory provisions that are available. This will be made clear in the guidance.

As I mentioned, I recently met the noble Lord, Lord Knight, to discuss the Government’s approach to this issue and to understand better whether there is additional support that we could offer. I felt that we had a very productive discussion, during which he brought to my attention the fact that many of the parents who had reported being treated unsympathetically by their employers were, in fact, employed in the public sector. Since then, my department has made contact with employer groups in this sector, including NHS Employers and those in Civil Service employee policy, as the noble Lord, Lord Knight, will be pleased to hear. We plan to work with them to develop and find ways of promoting the best practice guidance that ACAS will produce. We also intend to work with business stakeholders such as the CBI and the CIPD to ensure that this guidance reaches businesses and to encourage them to review their company policies accordingly.

Bereavement is a particularly sensitive issue and to be comprehensive, this guidance will need to cover a broad range of issues and situations. I am confident that the guidance produced by ACAS will be of excellent quality. I hope that this is some reassurance to the noble Lord, Lord Knight, and the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth. It is, however, essential that we keep the effectiveness of guidance and how it is being applied in the workplace under review. This is what the Government fully intend to do. I understand the sentiment behind this amendment, and I believe that it is important that all individuals are able to take time off to grieve when they suffer the loss of a loved one. However, I think that a flexible and sensitive approach, tailored to the needs of individual employees, is what is needed at such a difficult time. It is not feasible to legislate to accommodate the vastly different needs of individuals, which are often the result of different personal circumstances, family relationships and religious observations. For this reason I believe that guidance, combined with working with our key partners to encourage employers to adopt best practice in their workplaces, is the best approach.

The noble Lord, Lord Knight, raised a number of questions and I will endeavour to write to him with answers, including the question that he raised on the linkage with the DWP. In the mean time, I hope that noble Lords are reassured by these commitments and will agree to withdraw their amendment.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, I believe we are deeply reassured and very grateful to the Minister. I am only sorry that I was not able to take part in the earlier discussions. As he knows, there were clashes with other discussions about other parts of the children Bill at which I had to be present. I have been in close touch with the noble Lord, Lord Knight. We are very reassured, indeed grateful, that this matter has moved at such speed. I am just grateful that I will be able to take back the news to the families I work with that something will happen and that we will not hear such tragic stories about families receiving no compassion at some of the most difficult times of their lives. I beg to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 63AZA withdrawn.