Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill

Baroness Harris of Richmond Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 7th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Harris of Richmond (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for introducing this Second Reading debate, and I speak to support the Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill, otherwise known as Martyn’s law.

This is practical legislation that will empower communities to fight the ever-present threat of terrorism. Indeed, the need for this Bill and its contribution to the UK’s counterterrorism response cannot be understated. Since May 2017, the UK’s security services have stopped 42 late-stage terror attacks, there have been 15 successful terrorist attacks, there are 800 live investigations for terrorism offences, and there are 2,500 subjects of interest and 30,000 persons who are taking an unhealthy interest or curiosity in this area. These are not my figures; they come from the police and the director of MI5.

The nature of the terrorist threat facing the UK is changing and it is imperative that we have a comprehensive and robust approach to protecting our communities. We need look only at the recent vehicle terror attacks at a Christmas market in Magdeburg, Germany, and in New Orleans and other places since—to which noble Lords have referred—to see how vulnerable public locations can be. Copycat atrocities are being seen all too often.

Martyn’s law, as we have heard, is named after Martyn Hett. Martyn was one of 22 innocent victims murdered in the 2017 terrorist attack at the Manchester Arena. This has been campaigned for by his mother, Mrs Figen Murray OBE, referenced by most noble Lords. Mrs Murray is not just a grieving mother, as the noble Baroness, Lady Newlove, has already mentioned; she understands terrorism and the complexities surrounding it only too well. She has never looked for sympathy, and she holds a master’s degree in counter- terrorism. She is a quite remarkable woman. I am most grateful for her personal help in preparing this speech and will refer to her again shortly.

I also thank Mr Nick Aldworth, a former counter- terrorism national co-ordinator, who has given me excellent advice, and Mr Brendan Cox, the husband of Jo Cox MP and founder of Survivors Against Terror, who has been involved with this Bill throughout.

Although this is one of those rare pieces of proposed legislation that comes before us after being driven forward by private citizens, it is not unique. Nevertheless, it is hugely important and imperative. As we have heard, the Bill has entered this House after years of development, which has included contributions from our security services, counterterrorism policing officers and experts from across the security industry. Its very existence was recommended by Sir John Saunders—already referred to by my noble friend, if I may, Lord Carlile of Berriew—as a finding of his extensive inquiry into the Manchester Arena attack. It has not just been developed on a whim; it is deadly serious and involves the safety of millions of people. This legislation has been the subject of two rounds of public consultation and pre-legislative scrutiny by the last Government’s Home Affairs Select Committee. By any measure, the Bill arrives before us having been well considered and refined in response to the views of the public, which is demonstrated by the wide cross-party support in the House of Commons.

Chief among these considerations has been to make the Bill a proportionate contribution to countering terrorism. Its standard duty requires premise operators to establish highly achievable procedures that will make businesses more resilient to terrorist attacks. In most cases, these procedures will be at no cost to the premises, as they simply require the creation of a plan for how they will respond to an act of terrorism. Only those that derive their revenues through having the greatest numbers of people on their premises will be expected to do more, through the enhanced duty. This will require them to take measures that will stop acts of terrorism being successful at their premises.

Wise choices about the scope of the law’s application have been made. Proof of the Bill’s proportionality is that there are 1 million premises in the UK to which this law could apply. A sensible threshold, I believe, of 200 persons present being the point at which premises engage with the law means that only 180,000 of those premises are now in scope. These are the places where we gather to commune, socialise and be educated or cared for. The people who use these spaces deserve to be protected. I anticipate that some in this House might consider 180,000 premises to be an example of overregulation, but I suggest that those in London and Manchester in 2017, and those on the streets of London, Birmingham, Manchester and Belfast in the 1970s, would probably take a very different view. They might suggest that 180,000 premises is not enough.

The Bill recognises and respects those different views of the threats we face. In recognition of the ebb and flow of terrorist intentions, it contains a sensible mechanism through which the Secretary of State might vary this threshold in times of need. Dynamic threats require dynamic responses, and the Bill supports that. It takes an encouraging approach to enforcement, with the creation of a new regulatory role within the Security Industry Authority, which I was pleased to see. I know that my late dear friend Lady Henig would have been delighted to see the authority she chaired so ably involved in its implementation. I echo the calls to ensure that the SIA has the ability to fulfil its new enhanced role.

There is a clear declaration in the guidance notes to the Bill that the regulator will act as

“an educator in the first instance”.

This is a further recognition of a proportionate approach. However, if the premises operators wish to be reckless with the safety and security of others, the Bill has the teeth to encourage compliance.

The eighth anniversary of that terrible attack in Manchester will be on 22 May this year. Mrs Murray told me:

“No legislation was put in place to enforce security at that time. There was no legislation to mandate that venues keep people safe. There are laws about the number of toilets venues must have; laws about noise levels a venue is allowed to create—but nothing to help keep people safe”.


This is a good Bill, with good intentions and good outcomes, which my party wholly supports. It has been tailored to proportionately meet the needs of those affected by it, and it will serve to make this country stronger and more resilient. I commend it to the House.