Planning and Infrastructure Bill

Baroness Grender Excerpts

Monday 24th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, I rise to support very strongly Motion H1 in the name of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich. I have two concerns about the Government’s response. The first is the issue of protection. That is not present at the moment; it is severely lacking. I have visited chalk streams and seen streams that are probably beyond recovery. It is still happening, so there is a real need for urgency to protect the rest of what we have, and perhaps to instigate measures to recover them.

Secondly, the Minister mentioned two organisations that, in my view as a Green, have been largely discredited in their protection of the environment: Natural England and the Environment Agency. Somehow, neither of them actually does what it is meant to do, and certainly not within the parameters of what one would expect. This is urgent: you cannot just keep leaving it to consultation and finding out more facts and details—it has to happen.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the considerable amount of time she has given to so many of us in these discussions, particularly on Motions H1 and K1 in this group.

First, on K1—this is the wrong order, but I am going to do it that way anyway—I particularly welcome this new and additional commitment from the Dispatch Box to concentrating on nutrient pollution. That is a very welcome development today, and I support the noble Baroness, Lady Willis, in her response to that.

With regard to H1, sadly, we feel there is still progress to be made. The Minister will be aware that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich has looked at and reflected on the criticism made in the House of Commons of spatial development strategies and their use, and has therefore provided us with an amendment this evening which uses guidance, backed by regulation. We believe that this approach is technically right and that it is possible to do this.

The second point is about time being of the essence. The Minister expressed frustration at the pace at which protection of chalk streams was moving under the previous Government. We are very much at the 11th hour, and time is so precious that embedding something in this legislation, even now, rather than waiting for a White Paper or a Bill next year—goodness knows how long that will take—is the very kernel of the argument for pressing the House of Commons to think again.

We are here in numbers. If the right reverend Prelate decides to test the opinion of the House, I hope that the Conservative Benches will join with us and the Cross Benches and express a strong opinion on this.

[Lord Krebs (CB)]

My Lords, I rise to speak very briefly to Motion K1. I join others in thanking the Minister for her statement from the Dispatch Box, which meets many of the concerns we had, and for the time she and other Ministers spent discussing this with us.

I just wanted to allude to one part of her statement, on the development of guidance. A lot of the devil will be in the detail of how builders actually receive guidance and respond to it. One is particularly concerned about small builders, who do not have a legal team to interpret the guidance or spend a lot of time trying to understand it.

My noble friend Lady Willis and I have spent quite a lot of time trying to understand how the pieces of the jigsaw fit together: the habitat regulations, the nature restoration fund, the EDPs and the biodiversity net gain requirements. We have produced our own flow chart, the Minister has provided flow charts, and we are still somewhat in the dark.

It is of course possible that the combined brains of two Oxford professors are not enough to tackle the complexity of this matter, but we have given it quite a lot of effort. Therefore, I very much welcome the Minister’s stating she will involve us both in helping to simplify the guidance in a way that will actually make it useful and practically helpful to builders and developers, particularly those running small businesses.