European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Committee: 9th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 21st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

It is merely a generic description of the power to exercise delegated power-making by regulation, as encompassed by these provisions in the Bill.

I reiterate that I accept that these are serious points. They deserve serious consideration, and I can confirm that the Government are prepared to look again at where such a change may be merited for the use of the powers by the devolved Administrations in this way.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

May I pursue the intervention made by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas? “Delegated” is not an appropriate term here; they are devolved powers, not delegated powers.

[Baroness Goldie]

I accept the distinction drawn by the noble and learned Lord. I am trying to address the amendments of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, in the context of what the provisions do and his concern that they appear to cut off what he considers an entitlement of the devolved Administrations. I have tried to explain why, inevitably, these aspects are interlinked with the wider debate we will have on Clause 11.

The Government are prepared to listen to what has been said. I have indicated that we are prepared to look again at these provisions. I thank the noble and learned Lord for bringing forward his amendment, but in the circumstances I urge him to withdraw it.

Armed Forces: Serious Offences

Debate between Baroness Goldie and Lord Morris of Aberavon

Monday 23rd October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morris of Aberavon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the answer by Earl Howe on 5 September (HL Deb, col 1828), what further consideration they have given to reviewing the Armed Forces Act 2006 to deal with serious offences committed by members of the armed forces.

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, as explained in answer to the noble and learned Lord’s previous Question, the Armed Forces Act 2006 is kept under regular review, and the most recent Armed Forces Acts of 2011 and 2016 renewing those provisions made modest changes. In preparation for the next Armed Forces Bill in 2020, the Government have decided that the time is now right for an independent and more in-depth look at the service justice system so that we can be assured that it is as effective as it can be for the 21st century.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s reply. Should not the courts martial system be brought into line with the civil courts and give the right in serious cases such as murder and rape to be tried by jury with a judge appointed by the Lord Chief Justice, replacing the present hierarchical court system with its bare-majority verdicts, the size of which is secret, which is criticised by the Judge Advocate-General? Should we not fundamentally review the 2006 Act in consultation with the Lord Chief Justice and senior legal practitioners?

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank the noble and learned Lord for raising two important points. On the question of referring all serious cases to the civilian police and courts, as he will be aware, the service justice system is capable of dealing with the most serious offences, and has done so. It has been held to be compliant with the ECHR for investigations and prosecutions both within the UK and abroad, but we are keen for the review to take a strategic look at all aspects of the service justice system, and this is one issue to be explored. He also raised the important issue of majority verdicts. We are aware that views have been expressed about this, particularly in this House. Although the system has been held to be compliant with law, the Government recognise that there are differing views about the system of majority verdicts, and this is one issue to be covered by the review.