House of Lords: Working Practices

Baroness Fookes Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fookes]

My Lords, I dare say I shall not endear myself to my noble friend the Leader of the House when I say that last week that two-day debate depressed me completely because I thought that if the Bill that was in draft form were actually implemented it would be the complete destruction of this House as we know it. Today I am much more optimistic. I believe that we have before us a most far-reaching and excellent report which gives us real, practical suggestions which we can work on and will make the working of this House very much better. That is the way we should go—gradual changes, gradual improvements. In 1958 the life Peers were introduced, again gradual if you like, but it made for good changes and that is the way we should proceed.

Turning now to the report itself, I agree with the idea of the Lord Speaker helping in Question Time but I believe it is a more modest proposal than some previous speakers have suggested. My understanding is that the Speaker would intervene only when the Front Benches would have intervened; in other words, when there was disagreement as to who should speak and nobody sat down. I hope I am right; if that is the case, the Lord Speaker has a far greater opportunity to see than anyone on the Front Bench. I know how difficult it is turning around on the Front Bench compared with when I am sitting on the Woolsack. It is at least worth the experiment that is suggested. I am all for experiments where there may perhaps be controversies.

With Statements and Questions, it is very wise to tighten up the proceedings so that somebody has to ask a Question without the so-called brief comment. We had wonderful examples this afternoon—I mention no names—where the brief comment and several questions ensued. When there is a time limit on Back-Bench contributions this is very difficult indeed and it certainly needs tightening up. I also welcome very much the idea that when Statements are of immense importance there should the opportunity for a lengthier proceeding. I think 30 or even 40 minutes were suggested, rather than our usual 20.

I turn to the question of the greater extent to which Grand Committees will be used. I share some of the misgivings already expressed about a burden placed on Members who have outside jobs if there are many more morning sessions, bearing in mind that there may be Select Committees as well as the Grand Committee. I urge a little caution on that.

This is another issue which will very much affect the Deputy Speakers. At the moment we are on the Woolsack or in the Chair or in the Grand Committee to some extent. The workload is going to increase enormously. Either we shall all have to agree to do a great deal more or we shall have to increase the number of Deputy Speakers. There are some practical implications there which need looking at. I would suggest that we might proceed with rather greater caution on morning sessions for Grand Committees until we see how they work and what the effect is going to be.

I am very much in favour of pre-legislative scrutiny and was very interested in the very pertinent and interesting suggestions of the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, as to how this might be carried forward. I know from my own experience of serving on the Joint Committee looking at the draft Bill that finally became the Mental Capacity Act that it was an excellent way of proceeding. We had some wonderful evidence. It was also an opportunity for Members of this House who were not on the committee to give expert evidence. I am thinking here of the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, and I call in mind the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, who gave some wonderful evidence to that committee. That could be extended to others. It greatly increases the range of opportunities, which would be extremely helpful. I remember hearing about this being done in Sweden many years ago when I was in the other place. I thought what a good idea it was and I am sorry that it has taken so many years to catch on.

Equally, post-legislative scrutiny is very wise. It is so easy to pass legislation and anything which deters Governments from doing too much is to be recommended. There is something of “Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width” about how many Bills have gone through, and that should be greatly discouraged. Finally, no doubt there will be an evaluation if, as I hope, the report is accepted but I believe that there needs to be a re-evaluation at intervals as things change. That should be built into the system.