Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right that the withdrawal agreement is an agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union. The EU has been very clear that this is the only deal available and that it will not be reopening the withdrawal agreement. All the arguments are about the future relationship. We need the withdrawal agreement to leave the EU; we need it in all circumstances, whatever your vision for the future relationship with the European Union. We have put together this offer, in the hope that MPs will support it, so that we can move on to the important issues both within this country and around defining our future relationship with the EU.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 25th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Council formally endorsed the legal instrument relating to the withdrawal agreement and the joint statement supplementing the political declaration. There was further movement at the Council with this formal approval, so that is a change to the withdrawal agreement since the last vote.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

Given the ever deepening Brexit crisis, why do the Government not stand well back, take a deep breath and a clean sheet of paper, and make the most obvious of offers to Brussels? I ask again why the Government do not offer EU citizens continuing reciprocal residence for, say, a couple of years, and offer continuing free trade, but under the WTO, which gets rid of the Irish problem. We could talk about how much money we may give the EU when that has been accepted. Are the Government making such a mess of Brexit because they do not want us to leave the EU? Is that the underlying truth?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

No, over the past two-and-a-half years, the Government have worked extremely hard to get a deal that is in the best interests of the UK and the EU and to deliver on the result of the referendum. The Prime Minister has been categorically clear on that. That remains our position, and that is why we will be working very hard to try to bring a vote back this week so that we can leave in an orderly way and in a way that we believe is best for the British people.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am happy to reiterate our commitment to the Belfast agreement and indeed the commitment of the Irish Government and the EU. What we need now is to work constructively together. We are at a critical time of the negotiations and have some difficult discussions ahead. I think that we all want to move forward in a constructive manner and make sure that we can get a withdrawal agreement and the changes we are seeking that mean that the House of Commons will approve this deal and we can all move forward to talk about our bright relationship.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I hope I detect a chink of light in this Statement where it says:

“Given both sides agree we do not ever want to use the backstop, and that if we did it would be temporary, we believe it is reasonable to ask for legally binding changes to this effect”.


Does the Leader of the House agree that if the EU refuses to agree such legally binding changes, that would confirm that it remains in bad faith, and it regards the backstop as a device to stop us ever getting our sovereignty back, even eventually?

If that turns out to be so, why do we not offer the people of Europe continuing reciprocal residence and continuing free trade, but under the WTO, and, if that is not accepted, just go it alone under the WTO anyway, which holds no fears for us?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As both we and the EU have made clear, we do not intend to use the backstop. The Prime Minister, as I have said, is looking at three options in which the House of Commons has expressed an interest. These are alternative arrangements, such as technological solutions, a legally binding unilateral exit clause and a legally binding time limit. President Juncker and the Prime Minister had a conversation and have agreed that further talks will begin, and they will take stock later this month. We look forward to that having a successful outcome.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 21st January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister is being flexible and is looking forward, because she is opening dialogue with MPs and parties across the House of Commons. The purpose of those meetings is to find areas of consensus on a way forward so that we can move on.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, have the Government read the paper published on 7 January by the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, and Councillor Brendan Chilton entitled 30 Truths about Leaving on WTO Terms; that is, about leaving without a deal? If they have read it, will they say whether they disagree with any of it? If they agree with it, will they support it publicly and at least try to enlighten those who still believe, or pretend to believe, that leaving without a deal would be some sort of disaster, whereas it would be much preferable to the non-deal which is on the table?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I disagree with the noble Lord. The Government believe that we can do better than trading under WTO rules, which is why we are taking forward the deal. WTO rules would mean tariffs and quotas on British goods going to the EU; for instance, trading on WTO rules would mean a 10% tariff on cars that we sold to the EU and average tariffs of over 35% on dairy products. We believe that leaving with a deal is the best option.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 14th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I do not agree. The backstop we have negotiated gives the UK tariff-free access to the EU market without the free movement of people, without financial contributions, without having to follow most of the level playing-field rules and without allowing the EU to have access to our waters. That is not something that the EU wants.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, have the Government read the paper published yesterday by Economists for Free Trade entitled “No deal is the best deal for Britain”? If not, will they do so and answer it publicly? Clearly, the scare stories that have been put around about what will happen if there is no deal are complete nonsense, to put it mildly.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can only reiterate that we believe that there is a good deal on the table, which MPs will vote on tomorrow. I hope that they support it so that we can move forward.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 26th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

No. First, we will be able to develop an independent UK trade policy. The political declaration sets out a plan for a free trade area for goods with the EU, including zero tariffs, with ambitious customs arrangements to enable that. It will be the first such agreement between an advanced economy and the EU.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

Last Thursday, the Minister told your Lordships that the financial settlement on the deal would cost between £34 billion and £38 billion, but she did not answer my question on when that money will be handed over. In particular, I want to press her on whether it will be handed over only when all the pious hopes in these agreements have been fulfilled. If they are not, surely we will not hand over a penny.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with the noble Lord and thank him for his positive comments.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

The Statement says that there will be,

“a fair settlement on our financial obligations—less than half what some originally expected”.

The amount of that fair settlement is already well known but I hope that the House will forgive me if I ask how much it will be and when we will hand it over. Will it be after the many pious hopes in this Statement have been fulfilled? I very much hope that we will not hand anything over until that happens.

European Council

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can only repeat what I said last week: the Cabinet is united and we are looking forward to a very constructive discussion tomorrow.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

No, I am afraid I do not, because we have all pledged that there will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, the Statement says that the Government will propose that our free trade with the EU should continue as now. Do the Government fear that the Eurocrats will be arrogant enough to refuse this offer which, as I have mentioned before, would be much more in EU exporters’ collective interest than it would be in ours because, if we are all forced back to the WTO, they will pay us some £13 billion in extra tariffs and our exporters will pay them about £5 billion? Can the Government assure your Lordships that they will hold firm on this offer, enlisting, if necessary, the support of EU exporters? Going further, why should our free trade together not continue indefinitely? Would that not also be quite helpful with the Irish border problem?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I do not agree with the noble Lord. The fact that we have got to where we are shows that there is willingness on both sides to work together to make sure that we have a good outcome for both the EU and the UK. I look forward and expect that we will continue the phase 2 negotiations, including around the details of the implementation period, in the constructive manner we have seen so far.

Brexit Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Evans of Bowes Park and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have agreed a number of important principles that will apply as to how we arrive at valuations in due course. These will ensure that the process is fair to the UK. As we leave and pay off our commitments, there will be significant sums left to spend on our priorities and a precise schedule of payments will be agreed in the second phase.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, when we come to negotiate our future trading relationship, why do the Government not say that we will be generous and offer continuing free trade? That is, after all, much more in their exporters’ interest than it is in ours. I say this because, as the excellent Civitas analyses show, there are about 6 million jobs in the EU exporting to us and we have about 3.5 million jobs exporting to them. If the Eurocrats are selfish enough to force us to the WTO conditions instead, their exporters will pay us some £13 billion in new tariffs, whereas we will pay them only about £5 billion. As to what cash we should pay them, surely we should leave that to the very end of the negotiation, and its amount should depend on whether they have tried to mess around with the City of London in the meantime.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are committed to seeking continuity in our current trade and investment relationships, including those covered by EU FTAs and other preferential trading arrangements. We are working to agree arrangements with those partner countries to replicate, as far as possible, the effects of these agreements.