Sudan: US Determination of Genocide

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Reid of Cardowan

Tuesday 14th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, I remember the events of 20 years ago very well. I remember Colin Powell saying that it was genocide and being astonished by the continuation of atrocities, given that declaration. It is why our focus should not be on whether we use a particular term—that will come and words are important—as that determination must be made by a competent court in possession of the relevant evidence. Quite how that is done and which courts are deemed competent is an interesting question, and one that I am happy to take away. I think that we should re-examine that.

I am very glad that this has come before the House, because one of the things that has concerned me is that the famine taking place in Sudan is causing the death of more people than in Mali, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Gaza put together, and it is receiving far too little attention from the world.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, I entirely agree with the sentiments and comments of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis. Whatever this is called, it is horrendous. Can my noble friend the Minister say a little more about what efforts have been made to achieve a political solution? Does she retain any hope in the Jeddah process?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

Hope is an interesting concept when it comes to Sudan. All parties seem to have breached the commitments they made as part of the Jeddah process. We remain the penholder at the Security Council. To give up hope is to give up on every effort we need to make to move things forward, so giving up on hope is not an option. It does not help anybody to be optimistic when there is little reason for optimism, but we will continue to pursue our calls for a negotiated outcome, a cessation of all violence and atrocities, and the aid to get to where it is needed.

Sometimes we will work directly and sometimes through multilateral partners. This has to end—so many people, and so many children, are dying. The sexual violence being experienced by women and children in Sudan is completely intolerable. We all have a responsibility to do what we can to highlight what is happening and do something about it.

British Indian Ocean Territory: Negotiations

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Reid of Cardowan

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

That is an important question from the noble Lord. Yes, the agreement will mean that it will not be possible for other foreign states to operate from the other islands, which has been raised as a concern.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, to cut to the chase, the Government took the only sensible strategic path as regards this decision. To do otherwise, especially in view of the covetous eyes referred to by my noble friend Lord West, would have been to put at risk our control of Diego Garcia and, with that, our national security and defence. It is about time that the previous Government faced up to the reality in opposition —which they faced up to when they were in government, to be fair—and that reality is that the International Court of Justice, by a majority of 13 to one, found that the 1965 secession of these islands from Mauritius was unlawful. Certainly, that was advisory, but it was followed by a decision at the United Nations General Assembly of 116 to six welcoming that judgment, making it extremely likely there would be a further judgment far more stringent than the previous one. So the Government have taken the decision—in my view, a right one—to put the national security and interests of this country before everything else.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My noble friend is completely right. On this issue of the legalities, which I am sure will come up, we had a choice. We could wait for the legal tide to come in still further and have rulings that were binding made against us. In that situation, we would be negotiating from a position of particular weakness, we felt, so it was much better to get ahead and get this deal done before we reached that circumstance.

Patrick Finucane

Debate between Baroness Chapman of Darlington and Lord Reid of Cardowan

Tuesday 30th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am familiar with the point that the noble Lord has made. The Government are giving careful consideration to the recent rulings and requests for public inquiries in these cases. A decision to establish a public inquiry will be taken only after full consideration of the specific individual factors of each case. The Secretary of State is very concerned to ensure that the Government make decisions in these cases as soon as possible.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend to her position; I also welcome the Statement and the engagement of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. This has been a long-running problem, I think since 1989. It is true that the campaign has been kept alive, not least by the stalwart efforts of Geraldine Finucane. It is time that it was brought to some sort of closure. I therefore commend the Secretary of State for his engagement with the Finucane family, because, without that, I do not think that we will never reach closure.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for the points that he made and assure him that I will make sure that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is aware of his comments, given his extensive experience in Northern Ireland.