Covid-19: Response
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Thornton (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for not repeating the Statement, which I have read.
First, I want to ask about these Covid-19 symptoms: lack of taste and smell. The Minister will know that many healthcare specialists and the World Health Organization were making these warnings eight weeks ago, so can he explain why there has been a time lag in updating the definition?
I start by referring back to the question, on testing and tracing and the NHSX app, which I posed to the Minister yesterday and which he did not answer. I asked him whether it was true that in a Downing Street briefing that morning it was announced that the rollout of the app has been delayed until June. Is that true? When can we expect the rollout? Indeed, will we see the rollout of this app at all? If the Government will not use the app any time soon, does that mean that testing, tracking and isolating have to work smoothly and effectively at local level? That raises many questions.
We on the Benches welcome the wider rollout of testing, of course. Can the Minister update the House on whether the screening of all healthcare workers, whether they are symptomatic or not, has been successfully rolled out? What proportion of healthcare workers have been tested so far? Will they be tested every week? If not, how often? This is important, because it has been reported that 20% of hospital patients got Covid-19 while in hospital for another illness or treatment. So if routine NHS work is to be restarted, patients must be confident that they are in a Covid-free environment.
Can the Minister inform the House of the progress on antibody testing? Are these tests now widely available? If so, for whom? If they are not yet available, when will they be available? I gather from a widely available advertisement that I could have what is said to be a PHE-approved antibody test right now for about 100 quid. Would the results of that test be acceptable if I wished to use it to prove to an employer that I could got to work, go to school or teach at school?
On tracing, we on these Benches have long argued that the safe way to transition out of the lockdown is by having a test, trace and isolation strategy in place. Can the Minister tell us the current median time for test results to be received by someone when the test is carried out by Deloitte and other private sector testing facilities? More crucially, how soon do directors of public health and GPs receive the results of those tests?
Is that how it works: that the test is nationally organised and carried out, and the results are fed back locally? Who are they fed back to, and are those people responsible for tracking and tracing? Are they people the experienced local public health tracers or are they some of the 21,000 tracers who, we are informed, have been recruited? To whom are any or all of them accountable for tracking down people who are infected? As the Minister knows, we on these Benches believe that the Government should have made better use of local public health services. Who will inform people who have been in touch with a person with Covid-19 to isolate? Who is responsible for what happens to those people who must isolate, and for whether their families are supported in doing so? Where does the national call centre delivered by Serco fit in to this system? Can the Minister tell us by what date tracing and tracking services will be operational? Will they be operational by 1 June? I have raised with the Minister the issue of isolation. Why is that not mentioned as one of the key elements of the test-and-trace strategy?
Turning to care homes, I note what the Secretary of State said about social care last week: that he had thrown a “protective ring” around care homes. What constitutes a protective ring? The spread of coronavirus in care homes has become a crisis within a crisis. It was reported by the Guardian on 13 May that during the period coronavirus has been spreading in the UK, there have been as many as 19,938 excess deaths in care homes, well above the figure attributed to coronavirus by the ONS, leaving an urgent question about the causes of these deaths. None of this suggests anything remotely protective.
The reality is that there was no early lockdown of care homes, which was needed, and no early testing of people transferring from hospitals to care homes until mid-April. Prior to 15 April, the Government’s care home advice said:
“Negative tests are not required prior to transfers/admissions into the care home”.
That was not rescinded until mid-April, when the Government eventually issued their care homes strategy. Today, the CQC report says that 36% of care homes have Covid-19. That seems to be a greater proportion than that being admitted by the Government. Weeks later, do we yet have full testing of all residents and care home staff? No wonder Age UK say that this is “too little, too late”. When will they all be routinely tested? What is the date for that?
Turning to the R number, can the Minister guarantee that every easing of restrictions—such as asking children to return to school—is accompanied by a government statement on the expected impact on the R number and the underlying prevalence of the infection? If the R number rises to be greater than one in a region or local area, how will the Government deal with that?
Finally, I want to be clear that we on these Benches are desperate for the Government to succeed in beating this virus. We will and have supported the Government. In return, we expect transparency, as everyone does. Let us see the science. Give us clarity about what people are expected to do, truthfulness when things go wrong, as they inevitably will, accurate communication on all occasions and regular accountability to Parliament. We deserve no less.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for the Statement. The ONS statistics this morning showed that over 44,000 people have lost their lives, with the Financial Times estimating that the total figure is now well over 60,000 when a percentage of excess deaths is taken into account. From these Benches, we send our sympathies to all bereaved families and friends, and our thanks and support to the amazing front-line staff in the NHS, social care and community sector, and to others in key roles working to save lives and keep people safe.
The Secretary of State began his Statement by talking about flattening the curve, but yesterday an article in the British Medical Journal said:
“What is clear is that the UK’s response so far has neither been well prepared nor remotely adequate … Above all, the response to covid-19 is not about flattening epidemic curves, modelling, or epidemiology. It is about protecting lives and communities most obviously at risk in our unequal society.”
We agree.
I echo the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, about the acceptance, at last, by the Government of a third symptom, anosmia, but many other countries have more symptoms. France says that you should self-isolate if you have any symptom on a list of 10. Why do our Government still refuse to increase that list?
The Secretary of State has repeated his claim that he has prioritised testing in care homes, yet he still repeats that testing for everyone in care homes, whether staff or residents, will be only “offered” by 6 June. The Adult Social Care APPG is still hearing of care homes waiting for that “offer” of tests, and of others that have had tests but results still going astray or taking 10 to 14 days to be returned. On that basis, if Ministers are really prioritising care homes, why does the Statement announce testing for members of the public over the age of five now while people at the heart of the firestorm of Covid in care homes still have to wait up to two weeks before being offered a test?
Still on testing, can the Minister tell us the percentage breakdown of PCR testing results versus antibody testing results? If not, can he tell the House when this information will be publicly available? We need as many PCR tests as possible as part of an effective test, trace and isolate programme. How many of those carrying out testing are paid roles versus volunteers? A couple of weeks ago, the Minister told your Lordships’ House that testing would be extended through, among other things, a deal with Boots. Five days ago, Boots had an advertisement seeking volunteer testers taken down after public outrage that a company that had been given a commercial contract with the Government was relying on volunteers to carry out the work. Was using volunteers part of its tender to government? If so, does the Minister approve of companies using volunteers while pocketing public money in a contract?
On tracing, it is encouraging to hear that more than 21,000 tracers have been recruited, but today there are reports of people recruited receiving multiple emails congratulating them on being successful or attending online training that has completely fallen over and failed technically. Can the Minister say what percentage of those 21,000 have received full training and are now working as tracers? Last week, the Secretary of State said that local tracers would be used, whether local health or environmental health tracers, as well as central ones. Can the Minister say how many local tracers—that is, not Serco call-centre tracers or central NHS tracers—there will be from the 21,000?
The Statement asserts that the Government now have all the elements to roll out their scheme of test, track and trace, but I repeat that there is no focus on isolation for those who have to quarantine. Test, trace and isolate is used not just by the WHO but by many countries. What plans are in place to support people isolating, whether at home or in a quarantine unit, once lockdown is lifted? They will feel much more vulnerable at that point, when everyone else is moving back into their normal lives. Experience from Taiwan, Germany and South Korea shows that community health support for those in quarantine is more likely to make it successful. Again, countries that have been successful in containing the virus all had fully operational test, trace and isolate programmes up and running from day one. Given that each new venture the Government have undertaken during this crisis, as outlined in the BMJ article—from expanding PCR tests from a low base to manufacturing ventilators, supplying PPE and now the tracer app—has had a very problematic start, to put it kindly, are the Government starting to run full contact tracing now, using new staff in an area that has sufficient cases of coronavirus, before lockdown starts to be lifted but particularly by 1 June? It would be inappropriate for schools to return and people further to return to work without such a system in place.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Bethell) (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baronesses for their penetrating and searching questions. I will go through them systematically.
First, I want to say a few words, partly in response to the appeal for transparency from the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and partly in response to some of the suggestions about the performance of the Government in their response to Covid. I assure the House that the Government approach this epidemic in a spirit of openness and transparency, and we would like to work in partnership with other parties. I simply reject the suggestion, consistent in some of the questions, that the projects undertaken by the Government have in any way been characterised by failure or disappointment.
I bear testimony to the huge achievements of those who have worked extremely hard to throw up remarkable schemes which have been enormously successful and massively mitigated the effect of this disease. The testing network, the ventilators, the lighthouse labs and the nightingale hospitals were all hugely ambitious ventures, greeted with scepticism when launched and accompanied by complaints while being thrown up. But their achievements have been enormous: they have had a huge impact.
I would therefore like to turn around the tone of this debate, to be a little more positive, and celebrate the huge achievements of those who have thrown their heart and soul into the response to coronavirus. I pay tribute to their achievements and to the personal sacrifices many of them have made by giving up their time, and even putting their lives at risk, to conduct these important roles.
Quite reasonably, both noble Baronesses asked whether the Government regard isolation as part of the programme. I can reassure them that isolation is absolutely the key point. The way to stop transmission is for those who have symptoms, and especially those who have tested positive, to shield themselves from the rest of society in order to prevent the spread of the disease. Everything that we do in the test and trace programme is ultimately to promote good behaviours by the British public, so that people who have symptoms will distance themselves from the rest of society, putting a brake on the disease. It is absolutely imperative, and at the heart of all our communications.
I pay tribute to the British public, who have made huge personal sacrifices during this lockdown. The culture of isolation will be an essential part of keeping a lid on the disease. The Government are committed to providing mental health support, and practical and cultural support, for those who are in a state of isolation. I thank both noble Baronesses for throwing a spotlight on that.
I want to convey to the House the enormous complexity of identifying the key symptoms of this disease. By any common sense, it would seem incredibly obvious how to spot Covid, but I have sat in numerous meetings running through the data and know how difficult it is to have a consistent set of symptoms that can be understood clearly and communicated simply to the public. The data on this disease is extremely complex. As I have said to the House before, this disease is a very difficult adversary, as characterised by the way in which symptom checking is so difficult. We have moved to a new and upgraded set of symptoms, and we may well have to move again. However, we are seeking to encourage absolutely anyone who has any symptoms to declare them and seek a test.
Perhaps I may move quickly through the questions put by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton. I reassure her that the NHSX app is very much part of our plans. The Isle of Wight programme has been enormously successful and take-up rates have been huge. But it did teach us one important lesson: that people wanted to engage with human contact tracing first, and quite reasonably regarded the app as a supplementary and additional automated means of contact tracing. We have therefore changed the emphasis of our communications and plans to put human contact tracing at the beginning of our plans and to regard the app as something that will come later in support.
I reassure the noble Baroness that the testing of NHS and care staff is an absolute priority. Testing by the NHS of both groups is well under way. As announced by the Secretary of State, we are looking carefully at bringing in antibody testing to answer the question from staff who may query whether they have had the disease in the past, and to understand better what the role of immunity might be. The science is not firm; the lessons are not clear; but we need to understand the role of antibody testing and find out how it can help us combat this disease.
I advise the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, to be very wary of private tests. They vary enormously in quality, as I know through my own experience. The time after having the disease when you take the test impacts enormously on the test and the assumptions one can make about a positive test are not proven. You cannot currently share with an employer any impression that you might have immunity, on the basis of a test.
I reassure both the noble Baronesses that our involvement with local groups in the tracing operation is being energetically promoted. We have appointed Tom Riordan, the chief executive of Leeds City Council, to lead this part of the programme. He is running an excellent programme to work with local authorities, directors of public health, environmental health officers and local resilience forums to ensure that our tracing system is as local as it possibly can be. It cannot all be done locally: some of it is better done digitally, and the highly automated routines of the app are very good. Some of it must be done at scale on a national basis by the massive call centres that we are throwing up, but some of it is best done by local groups. Those processes are being put in place energetically and I thank GPs, local directors of public health and all those who are engaged in them. We will be putting together local Covid plans that will be implemented by the relevant local authorities. These will form an important part of keeping a lid on this contagion.
I also pay tribute to those who are helping to organise the major test centres, including Serco, and those who have stepped up to take roles as contact tracers. They are going through complex training at the moment; it is a challenging task. No one wants to hit the phone and tell someone that they have to isolate; it is a tough message to have to deliver. I have no doubt that there will be problems with this complex and difficult task, but I pay tribute to those involved and express my gratitude to those running the programme.
On care homes, as the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, rightly described, every death is a source of great sadness. However, I pay tribute to all those who have put their safety on the line by delivering tests in care homes. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that there is a website where any care home that wants a test can register their interest and get a response promptly. Any care home worker who wants an individual test can access a site where, as a key worker, their test will be prioritised. There should be no reason why any care home or care home worker should wait two weeks, as suggested in the question.
I put my hand up and explained that mistakes were made 10 days ago when, due to problems with our Northern Irish test laboratory, some care home tests were either delayed or voided. That was an enormously regretful situation, but, when you put together an operation of this scale at such pace, some mistakes will be made. We have done an enormous amount to rectify those mistakes. Bringing in the noble Baroness, Lady Harding, to run the operational side of our testing regime is a great step forward.
I will also say a word in defence of the volunteers who are working at our drive-in test centres. These are often furloughed workers who do not need paid employment, but they are spending their time usefully and are often committed and have a sense of public service. I bridle at the thought that they would be sneered at or in any way insulted. The role of Boots in recruiting them is entirely honourable, legal and appropriate for the times we are in, and I very much thank those volunteers who have dedicated their time and risked their personal safety to do this difficult and possibly risky job. It is not appropriate to suggest that there has been public outrage at this arrangement—quite the opposite. The British public support this kind of individual public service.
The recruitment of tracers is going extremely well indeed: 21,000 have been put in place, which is way beyond our initial expectations, and the training is going well.
This programme is developing very quickly. We will seek to make announcements about it later this week and there will be a further rollout next week. I am extremely proud of the achievements that we have made, and I thank everyone who is involved very much indeed.
Care Homes: Covid-19 Testing
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Bethell
My Lords, it is not true that the list of priorities did not include care homes. In every epidemic, care homes are always a priority. History has taught us that and we knew it from the beginning. We have focused on them enormously; that is why care homes are a number one priority at the moment. We are determined to reduce the rate of infection so that infection does not leak into the community.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
In a reply during Oral Questions earlier today to my noble friend Lady Barker, the Minister said that test results for the care sector are turned around within 48 hours. Yesterday, care home organisations told the APPG for Adult Social Care that many are not getting any results back—a big black hole—that those which do say that 10 days is not unusual, and that local resilience forums are not being allowed to get the results either. They cannot plan support. While 6 June is three weeks away, the crisis in our homes is now. Given his previous Answer, can the Minister give a date by which all care sector results will be returned within two to three days?
Lord Bethell
I think the noble Baroness casts the situation unfairly. There are undoubtedly cases where test results have taken longer. Last weekend, a laboratory let us down and we had some delays, but I pay tribute to the team who turned around a very difficult situation. By far the vast majority of tests are turned around within our target time, and we are currently trying to reduce that time by using mobile and satellite units to take the tests to residents. That work is showing great and encouraging signs of improvement.
Covid-19: Government Response
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Brinton (LD)
From these Liberal Democrat Benches we echo the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton. We believe that lockdown should be lifted only using the WHO advice for “test, trace and isolate” to keep people safe. On 23 April, I asked the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, why “isolate” had been dropped from the Government’s slogan. He told your Lordships’ House:
“Turning to track and trace, I confirm that isolation is an absolutely intrinsic part of the track and trace regime: it just does not rhyme so well, so you never put it at the end, but ‘track, trace and isolate’ is the programme.”—[Official Report, 23/4/20; col. 166.]
Today, the Department of Health and Social Care’s Dear Colleague newsletter does not mention “isolate” in the context of lifting lockdown. Can the Minister say what evidence there is of a government plan for isolation, and how will we know that people are isolating, which is absolutely vital if we are to succeed in stopping transmission and keeping people safe? Although testing has increased it has not yet reached a consistent number of 100,000 per day, so what evidence is there for the Prime Minister’s new target of 200,000 per day by the end of May being delivered?
Lord Bethell
The Government’s commitment to isolation is spelled out clearly in guidelines published by Public Health England, and it is promoted every day with the Government’s “stay at home” slogan. On the 200,000-test aspiration, we have put in place a remarkable platform for testing. We have strong partnerships with important companies, we have sourced new supply chains of critical reagent swabs and other supplies that are in short measure, and we are making the logistical arrangements necessary for a massive expansion of testing. I believe that those will take us to whatever is necessary to meet the testing needs of the country.
Covid-19: Personal Protective Equipment
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Bethell
My Lords, it is not correct that Turkey was asked to intervene only at the last minute. We have been in constant, daily and regular contact with the Turkish Government. We are grateful to the Turkish Government for their help and involvement and we continue to work with Turkish companies on this order. On the NHS’s requirement, this virus undoubtedly requires much more protection than any other disease that we have encountered. The demand for PPE will continue to rise. We will meet that need through our Make programme and continued strong relationships with foreign providers.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, Methodist Homes has reported the deaths of 250 residents and two staff from Covid-19 since the beginning of the outbreak. Last week, it was forced to buy 200,000 face masks for £200,000—five times the going rate. The current government allocation is 300 masks per home per week, when the reality is that they need over 1,000. The system for providing support for our care homes, which are really struggling—they are actually now the focus of the outbreak—is just going from bad to worse. Can the Minister please tell us exactly when homes will receive the PPE that they need?
Lord Bethell
The noble Baroness is entirely right to commend the sacrifice of hard-working care workers who put their safety on the line and put themselves in harm’s way. She is also correct to allude to the challenge for care homes—15,000 of them—that have previously largely looked after their own procurement arrangements. This Covid disease presents an enormous procurement challenge. The Government have stepped up and are helping care homes in many ways. Nearly a billion items of PPE have been distributed in the last six weeks and we will continue our commitment to support care homes.
Covid-19: Social Care Services
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Baroness Brinton (LD)
I declare my interest as a vice-chair of the APPG on Social Care and thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for securing this vital and highly pertinent debate. So many Members of your Lordships’ House have made moving contributions. On behalf of the Liberal Democrat Benches, I also thank all the staff and volunteers working across the wider social care and community sector. Frequently low paid but definitely not low skilled, these amazing people show us their professionalism and big hearts, day after day.
Back in mid-February, we on these Benches asked the Minister repeatedly about care. On 26 February, the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, said in Hansard that
“we are planning … a massive communications campaign on how to protect people, particularly vulnerable people, in our population.”—[Official Report, 26/2/20; col. 257.]
The evidence of recent weeks shows that those most vulnerable in our communities and care homes have been seriously and tragically let down.
Others have covered plenty of the detail, which is symptomatic of the centralised way in which Whitehall, the Department of Health and Social Care, and the NHS have treated anything not in hospitals as a second or even third order of priority. My noble friend Lord Shipley explained the problems that have arisen since Whitehall took over the supply chain for the social care sector and then decided to create a separate system, known as Clipper, that we were told was due to come online on 6 April, but yesterday discovered is still three to four weeks away from going operational.
Worse, where providers and local resilience forums have ordered their own PPE, it has been confiscated by government and rerouted centrally for hospitals first, leaving community settings high and dry. This includes lorries being stopped at border ports and drivers being rerouted. Consequently, a lack of PPE and a policy of moving patients from hospital into care homes without any testing has meant that Covid-19 has spread rapidly in the social care sector.
I support my noble friend Lady Jolly’s call for clarity on DNRs and echo her concerns about GPs asking disabled and learning-disabled people completely inappropriate questions. It is very clear from the government advice, NICE advice and all good palliative care advice that the way in which this happened was inappropriate. I hope that this DNR factor will be examined as part of any inevitable public inquiry. It seemed to happen in groups. Were CCGs asking GPs to ring their patients and find out whether they wanted to go to hospital? To do it all in one conversation is completely inappropriate. For many disabled people, it was completely inappropriate to even ask them this, if they do not have the clinical frailty that my noble friend Lady Jolly spoke of.
However, the Government’s lack of understanding of the wide range of other disabled people, and extremely fragile people, living within our community extends completely in the opposite direction. As a result, people who have ventilators or tracheostomies, for example, have found that their care support is entitled to only the most simple and flimsy face masks, because they are regarded as exactly the same as the standard care in residential homes. The Government’s PPE for the social care sector is almost always designed for the elderly.
Matt Hancock said last week that health and social care workers should not overuse PPE. The gasp that went through the social care community when he said that could be heard across the country. Most community orders are receiving a tiny fraction of what is ordered and needed. My noble friend Lady Barker summarised well the problem between the department and local government.
Time and again, many noble Lords have talked about testing. Testing in the social care sector has been a real problem, with very few centres where staff can go and be tested. On Sunday, an appalling story came out of a social care worker in Norfolk being asked to go to Sheffield—a five-hour round trip—to be tested. Even their nearest place was a three-hour round trip away. It is all very well saying that more and more centres are opening up, but if they are all drive-through, it becomes impossible for the many staff in the social care sector who do not drive to get to them. I hope that the Minister will be able to explain to us when really accessible testing will be available for all social care staff who need it.
The problems with PPE have demonstrated a perfect storm. At the beginning of this crisis, patients, and especially elderly patients in hospitals who may or may not have had Covid, were being pushed back into local care homes without having been tested, whether they were symptomatic or asymptomatic. At that point, staff in care homes were not able to access tests at all and, as a result, Covid started rushing through many of our care homes. Many of the workforce were already self-isolating, or, because of their symptoms, had removed themselves completely and were unable to work. The criminal lack of PPE means that Covid has had free rein. It is estimated that in London, some 50% of care homes have active cases.
Many noble Lords have talked about the future of social care, and it is absolutely vital that we look at that in the context of today’s debate. My noble friend Lady Northover set out the history of social care reform. I can remember the delight, a decade ago, when all three parties supported the Dilnot review, and the shock when the Conservative Party decided that it did not want to continue with it. As we come to the end of this crisis, we must rapidly review the future of social care, but we must not start again from scratch. There is plenty of evidence to show what needs to be done. Our social care sector was already struggling before this crisis, following cuts to local government and to providers, with many providers having gone out of business and others hanging on perilously by a thread at the moment.
The consequences of all this are visible. The Rainbow Trust supports families with seriously ill children. It has said that the risk of the Covid-19 pandemic has put the provision of social care by charities at a higher risk of ceasing altogether, because many charities depend on fundraising, which has dropped significantly. It says that, in the short term, it is unclear how government departments will divide up the modest funding package of £360 million between the so many charities which are desperately trying to provide for very vulnerable groups of adults and children. It added that, in the long term, it is vital that sustainable funding is established to reduce the vulnerability of vital charitable social care to economic shocks, so that we do not end up in this position again.
The Rainbow Trust would like to ask the Minister to please go back to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Many charities have had to furlough staff, and those staff have been allowed to work for other charities. But in the medical sector, these staff often have exceptionally specialist skills that cannot be used elsewhere, and, as a result, some of the provision that they are trying to offer cannot be done easily.
My noble friend Lord Campbell of Pittenweem has rightly called for a judge-led public inquiry. It is clear that too many things have been going wrong. We need to recognise the contribution made by our health and social care staff wherever they are, whether in care homes, in the community or in hospices. That is why the Liberal Democrats say that we must have a proper package for them. They must have access to full and proper PPE. Moreover, those who have tragically died as a result of Covid in the line of service need proper death in service benefits. We also think that a daily allowance equivalent to the military deployment allowance should be paid during the lockdown to people who end up putting themselves at risk. Too many are doing that, and they are absolutely serving the nation.
Covid-19
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Baroness Thornton (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. I join him and the Government in saying that our thoughts are also with all those who have lost their lives to this horrible virus. I pay tribute to the NHS and social care staff who have lost their lives. I know the Minister agrees that the number of victims who appear to have come from BAME communities is very concerning. Can he confirm reports that BAME people make up 72% of all NHS and carer deaths with Covid-19?
We welcome the announcement of an inquiry. It would be great if the Minister could provide further information about the scope of the inquiry and when it will report its initial findings.
The Minister said he believes that we are now at the peak, but we are nevertheless heading for one of the worst death rates in Europe. The Government have told the public that their response to the pandemic will always be guided by science but, as the Minister will be aware, there are often different views within the scientific community, so I repeat the call that we have made from these Benches in the past that the Government should publish the evidence underpinning their decision to recommend, for example, a seven-day rule for isolation. This is important for public confidence, given that the Government’s advice appears to contradict the advice by the World Health Organization, which advocates a 14-day rule for isolation based on evidence that people can still transmit the virus after 10 days or more.
Despite many questions, it remains unclear why the UK did not participate in some of the European procurement projects. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said this was because we missed an email, whereas a senior civil servant at the Foreign Office said in evidence to a Select Committee that it was a political decision, before retracting that comment several hours later. The lack of transparency is deeply unsatisfactory. It would help if the Government published a background briefing so that we could see exactly what happened. We believe that it is necessary to get to the bottom of this situation now to ensure that the UK takes part in any future EU schemes that may help us deliver PPE to those putting their lives at risk on the front line.
The Government have repeatedly said that they are “ramping up”—this is an expression I do not enjoy, and I certainly intend never to use it myself—testing capacity, but the latest statistics show that only 14,629 NHS tests were carried out in the last 24-hour period, eight days before the Health Secretary’s self-imposed deadline to reach 100,000 tests. This is despite testing centres having a capacity of 39,000 checks a day. Why is more than half the country’s testing capacity still going unused when tens of thousands of NHS and social care staff, along with other critical workers, are being forced to self-isolate because they have not been tested? It is very concerning that the number of tests being undertaken is not increasing. Even if the capacity does reach 100,000, that is not the same as access. The latest statistics reveal that the number of tests performed on Tuesday was two-thirds that of the previous day. The Minister needs to tell the House what on earth is going to happen and when we can see the daily increase of tests.
Earlier this week the Health Secretary pledged to test immediately anyone in the social care sector who needed it. While elderly residents can be tested in the homes they live in, staff still have to travel. I learned earlier from the Minister that there are plans in place to change that, so I would like him to explain how soon those alternatives will come on stream.
Testing and contact tracing are vital to managing the UK’s response and easing lockdown restrictions. The new NHS app mentioned is very welcome. Can the Minister set out the timeline for when that will become available?
Finally, will the Minister confirm that the combination of some spare capacity in the NHS and the Government’s view that we now have reached the peak of the virus means that postponed NHS treatments and procedures will resume imminently? Although we understand why some elective treatments were postponed, the delay for many illnesses, including cancer, involves its own risk. It is therefore important that people receive the necessary treatment as soon as possible when it is safe to do so considering the impact of the virus. What support are the Government giving to trusts to help them manage demand amid the ongoing situation and give patients confidence that they will be treated in a Covid-free hospital?
Baroness Brinton (LD)
I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and for his work on testing. We may have some difficult questions for him, but I hope I have the support of the whole House in saying thank you to him and his team for the work they are doing on this difficult area.
I too thank all the staff and volunteers in the NHS and the wider social care sector and other key areas who have been working during this crisis, whether directly on the front line or in supporting families and our children in schools. We send our condolences to the families of the bereaved, and are pleased that many people are recovering, even though we know that, if they have had it badly, it takes time. From these Benches, we echo the concerns about the high percentage of BME deaths, among workers and non-workers alike.
The Statement says that there are 3,000 spare critical care beds, but ITV reports that care home residents now account for up to half of Covid deaths. However, last week the Daily Mail reported that care home residents were still being asked to sign letters to say that they would not go to hospital in the event that they had Covid-19. Will the Minister confirm that these critical care beds in hospital are not spare? There are plenty of people in care homes who could use those beds but they have been put under pressure, no matter how gently, to sign the letters.
It is good to see the Nightingale hospitals coming on board—even if they are empty, for the right reasons. One of the concerns expressed has been about the staffing and the initial request that any patient had to have staff accompanying them from their previous hospital. Can the Minister say that this has now definitely stopped and that staff with appropriate critical care experience are able to be recruited? I gather that this has also been a problem for increasing the number of beds.
There was a good message in the Statement for people to go to their GPs and to use 999 for emergencies, but today there was a report of somebody who had a severe heart attack not being picked up urgently, as heart attacks are still second-level priorities to Covid. As a result of that 20-minute target rate, sadly the patient died. Is there any rebalancing of priorities for ambulances now that we seem to be over the peak of cases?
On equipment and medicines, it is good to hear that there are now just over 10,000 ventilators. Are they full ventilators, or does that include CPAP and BiPAP machines? How many more are to come? There have been some worrying shortages of medicines for those who need to be sedated, and recently we have heard news that there is a problem with kidney dialysis and kidney medicine for people who have come out of intensive care and require long-term support. Is there a shortage of such medicines, what other medicines are at risk and what proposals are there to remedy that problem?
We have spent many hours today talking about PPE. We are still waiting for supplies for everything outside hospitals. On 6 April, Clipper was heralded as being about to solve this problem, but it is still woeful. Until the social care and community sectors get the support they need, they will continue to be worried about the spread of Covid.
The Turkish ambassador has written to various people in the APPG on Turkey, setting out the actual arrangements—as opposed to those reported by the Government—concerning the delay in the package that appeared to get stuck. Turkey actually donated 250,000 pieces of medical protection equipment to us; the rest came through privately. Can the Minister say when the remainder of the consignment due from a Turkish supplier will arrive?
It is good to hear that formal arrangements for testing, tracking and tracing are now under way, but the WHO always puts in a third word alongside “test” and “trace”: “isolate”. Any mention of isolation in the Statement is notable by its absence. Taiwan, South Korea and Hong Kong have all managed to suppress further bursts of Covid because of the arrangements for not just testing and tracing but isolating. It is good to hear that an app will be available, but the Minister will know that there are people with technical experience concerned about whether it is appropriate to use Bluetooth for it, because of security issues. Can the Minister assure the House that this is not the case and that people’s data will be used only for NHS purposes and will absolutely not be able to be used by any providers of the app or beyond? The 18,000 tracers announced by the Secretary of State just before this Statement are a good start, but we will need more for good national coverage. Worryingly, Mr Hancock said a few days ago that all this will be operated centrally. Is that still the case, or will he use the existing trained tracers that there are in local communities, whether environmental health tracers in councils or in local health teams? It seems rather bizarre to try to cover the country on that level.
On shielding, it is good that there is a request to create more volunteers and to celebrate the volunteers, but notable by their absence in the Statement are the many people who have not yet had their letters on shielding and whether any further groupings may have to consider shielding—which I understand is the case.
I congratulate the Government on their progress on test and trace, but confirm that we are extremely concerned about supplies of equipment and medicine and hope that things will be remedied speedily.
Lord Bethell
My Lords, I greatly thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton and Lady Brinton, for their extremely perceptive and thoughtful questions. I will answer them, in the words of the moment, at pace.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked about BAME. The precise figures for BAME deaths are not to hand. PHE will have a very thorough investigation into this. It will come up with a scope and a delivery date shortly.
On isolation, one of the frustrating and awkward things about the virus is how unpredictable it is and how many unknowns there are. It confounds expectations. The question of isolation remains one for which we are reviewing our advice. We are in constant contact with other countries to learn more about best practice.
On the European project, I make it absolutely 100% clear that there was a cock-up, not a conspiracy. There were emails from Europe to us that were missed; there were meetings that our side missed. It was a great shame that that opportunity was missed, but we have put in place the processes and arrangements to work with our European partners on future procurement if they are helpful to the NHS and our care system.
The noble Lady, Baroness Thornton, is quite right to ask about capacity and testing. The blunt truth is that infection rates have gone down dramatically. The lockdown has had a profound impact. The KCL infection rate graph has gone from 2 million to half a million. That has a profound effect on demand for tests. Access is no longer a problem. At 5 pm, on the No. 10 presser, the Secretary of State explained how key workers can access a test for themselves. A major advertising campaign will begin tomorrow. They can either attend the drive-ins or Amazon will deliver a test to their home. Therefore, for those without a car, travel is not necessary. That capacity will be essential when we build the kind of track and trace capability that we will need to take us out of lockdown.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked about postponed treatments. I echo her sentiments entirely. It is of grave concern that the numbers of non-Covid deaths can be worse than of those who die of Covid themselves, as in any epidemic. The message in the Statement is crystal clear: if you need treatment, contact your GP or your hospital. We will do everything we can to give you the treatment that you need. We are trying to use this hiatus to clear some of the backlog. The noble Baroness mentioned cancer. That is a particularly tricky problem because those cancer patients in treatment who have challenging immune systems will not wish to attend hospitals where there is Covid. We are doing all that we can to try to make arrangements and provide hygienic arrangements for them.
The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about care beds. Let me slay one myth: the ONS is very clear about the proportion of deaths at care homes. It is 10%. It is an offence to misrepresent the cause of a death. Causes of death are reported to PHE. The CQC carries that information to the ONS. These are reliable figures and I would be glad to send those who suggest that it is more than that the details on the ONS website. There is no pressure on anyone to be in a bed that is not recommended by strong clinical advice. It is true that we have spare hospital bed capacity, but it is not true that we are pressurising anyone to stay in a care home who should be in a hospital bed.
The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, raised the question of medicines. That is an area where our supply chains have been put under extreme stress. Suppliers in China, India and America have all been under pressure and we have been in conversation at government and corporate level to ensure we have supplies. The noble Baroness is right that some of the first-choice medicines for sedation have been in short supply, but there are ample and various back-ups for those medicines. She is right that a feature of the Covid disease, is, it seems, that it attacks the kidneys and there has been a big increase in the need for kidney dialysis and the drugs associated with it. We are putting in place the supply chains necessary to fill that need.
As for the Turkish ambassador, I am not going to give a blow-by-blow account of every plane and truckload of kit that comes to Britain; all I can say is that we are extremely grateful to both the Turkish ambassador and to our Turkish corporate providers and we find the scrutiny they have been put under unfortunate and regrettable.
Turning to track and trace, I confirm that isolation is an absolutely intrinsic part of the track and trace regime: it just does not rhyme so well, so you never put it at the end, but “track, trace and isolate” is the programme. I have been given a thorough briefing by the Taiwanese CMO on their use of track and trace and, having a Taiwanese wife, I can tell noble Lords that I am up to speed on their achievements in that area.
On app security, I assure the House that the Bluetooth we are using is the latent, not the overt, Bluetooth: data is not carried in the same way as in overt Bluetooth, and one of the reasons we have chosen that method is the strong security offered. I also reassure the House that we have strong data arrangements. It is one of the reasons we have gone for a latent Bluetooth technology, and no data will be shared with our technology providers.
Lastly, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, is entirely right to raise the tracing part of track and tracing. I reassure her that we will be using a variety of different methods. There will be a central bank of callers. We will also be using local resources where they are necessary, and we will also be using friends networks. We have learned from the best case studies from abroad that often the influence of friends in persuading people to isolate has the most profound effect.
Covid-19: Medically Vulnerable People
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Bethell
My noble friend is entirely right that the political context in Britain is based on rule by consent. We are not an authoritarian state. However, I cannot hide from my noble friend the point that I made to the noble Lord, Lord Truscott: it is the virus that is a discriminator, not the Government. The clinical assessment of risk for many older people, particularly those with medical conditions, is very high. The Government will be guided by clinical advice in their advice and recommendations to all groups, although the effect of safeguarding and lockdown on the elderly is fully understood. We will put in as many mitigation measures as we can to prevent any long-term harm.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, on 16 March the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, told the House that anyone with an underlying health condition will be contacted by their local GP to clarify what kind of risks they face. A very large number of people still have not had their letter or text from the Government saying that they should be shielding, let alone conversations with GPs. I am in the shielding group and my consultant has told me that I should prepare to be shielding for 18 months. Can the Minister confirm that everyone who should be shielding has now been notified by the Government and their GP that this is the case?
Lord Bethell
The noble Baroness is entirely right. Letters should have been sent to all those who should be shielding. I am aware, as she rightly points out, that this process happened extremely quickly and there was a very fast turnaround. I have accounts of people who were sent a letter who should not have had one and I have accounts of people who should have had a letter who did not get one. We are working hard to fill the gap, but 1.3 million letters were sent out and, on the whole, I believe that this exercise has delivered clear recommendations to those involved.
Covid-19: Removal of Restrictions
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord Bethell
The noble Baroness is entirely right. I have spoken to Paul Nurse and commend the Crick Institute on the work it has done to build up the remarkable capacity of 2,000 tests a day. However, there are practical issues with the “Dunkirk spirit”. There are enormous logistical challenges in getting swabs and serology to laboratories. There are logistical problems with them registering the correct patient details and then getting the responses back. We have made substantial advances—the Crick Institute has been a pioneer in this—in bringing industrial levels of organisation both to the very large number of tests done each day and to the logistical backbone necessary to process those results.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
Yesterday, the World Health Organization said that Covid is not going to go away, there is not yet a treatment or vaccine and we have to be a Covid-ready society. It still says that any release from lockdown must involve testing, tracing and isolation. Can the Minister say whether there will be enough local sources for testing, comprehensive tracing and arrangements for isolation ready prior to any release from lockdown in the United Kingdom?
Lord Bethell
The noble Baroness is entirely right. Tracking and tracing will be absolutely essential for keeping down R0, the transmission rate, when it comes to the implementation of our medium-term strategy. We are working extremely hard to dramatically increase our testing capacity. I assure the House that that capacity is growing enormously, at scale and exponentially. It is our expectation that it will easily meet the requirements of tracking and tracing. That tracking and tracing will be implemented by several work streams. The app already unveiled will be an important part of that, as will the PHE manual contact-tracing resources and the use of any other technological advances and innovations developed as part of this response to the epidemic.
Covid-19 Update
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Thornton (Lab)
My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for repeating the Statement made by the Secretary of State in another place today. Our thoughts are of course with those affected by coronavirus and the families of the 35 people who have died in the UK and the British citizens who have died overseas.
We understand that the Government’s commitment to ensure the UK’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic is driven by evidence and science, but the Minister must have realised that the public are confused and concerned about the advice that has been given, especially when Governments around the world appear to be receiving and giving their citizens different advice. Surely the answer to this lies with the Government publishing the scientific advice and modelling behind their coronavirus action plan, which would enable experts to analyse, peer review and stress test it.
The Covid-19 pandemic is a global problem that requires Governments to work together. Can the Minister confirm that the UK has access to the evidence and data collected by other affected countries? Does he agree that a global response would give more public confidence? I am not suggesting that the UK is not doing the right thing from our point of view, but it is very important that the public understand why we are doing the things we are doing.
We welcome the update that the Government have already increased the number of tests to 5,000 a day and hope to double this to 10,000. Experts have advised that the most effective way to prevent infections and save lives is breaking the chain of transmission. To do that, you have to test and isolate. The head of the World Health Organization has implored Governments to “test, test, test” and check every suspected case, warning that Governments cannot fight the pandemic blindfolded. Therefore, we are concerned by the Government’s decision that only patients who require hospital admission will be tested for coronavirus. This will mean that only a subset of cases, the most severe, will be identified and we will not know how widespread the infection really is. If our approach is to be science-led, surely data is the key.
The Minister will be aware that NHS workers have also expressed concern about this policy, given that it could lead to staff who do not have coronavirus needlessly self-isolating for seven or 14 days, which would put a further strain on NHS staffing. It could also lead to asymptomatic staff with coronavirus treating frail and vulnerable patients, putting them at further risk. Indeed, there is a petition calling for the prioritisation of testing for NHS staff which currently has over 15,000 signatures. Does the Minister agree that mass testing will allow for valuable insights into the behaviour of this virus? Once testing capacity is increased, will the Government reinstate testing for those suspected of having the virus, prioritising NHS workers, including the cleaners, porters and other essential staff who are needed to keep a hospital running and who play a vital role in infection control? If the Government want to keep key workers at work, they have to make testing available to them. That applies to not only nurses and doctors but teachers and head teachers. It is a nonsense not to do so. Will the Government make tests available to key workers?
Public anxiety has been heightened by Britain seeming to take weaker measures than other countries, confusion over things such as herd immunity and anonymous speculative briefing to the media from government sources. It is unimpressive for the Secretary of State to publish a newspaper article updating us on Covid-19 behind a paywall. It does not smack of a firm communication strategy led by the need for clarity, honesty and reassurance. The Government must provide clear and transparent communication to the public about the steps they are taking to mitigate the impact of this outbreak. This is especially important as the coronavirus curve enters a steeper trajectory, with advice changing rapidly. Just today, the advice has changed for those displaying symptoms to stay at home for 14 days rather that seven. Can the Minister advise us on why the length of time has increased?
We certainly welcome the decision to introduce daily briefings to keep the public informed about what action is being taken to fight the spread of this virus, when certain protocols will be implemented and, perhaps most importantly, why. Will the Government commit to providing clearer guidance for people, including specifying the conditions that may indicate that someone is more susceptible to the effects of Covid-19? The phrase “underlying health conditions” is far too vague and misleading to be helpful, and may cause unnecessary panic and confusion. The NHS website is providing information but I am concerned about how those who are digitally excluded will access it, especially now that they are being advised to socially distance themselves. Will the Government launch a dedicated coronavirus telephone advice line for people? This would be an important source of up-to-date information for many people and would help to alleviate pressure on the 111 service.
Many low and middle-income families will be severely hit by a reduction in income if workplaces shut and they have to take time off sick or need money to respond to the crisis. This morning, Virgin Atlantic asked staff to take eight weeks of unpaid leave over the next three months to help the airline to cope during the pandemic, but that means that those staff will not be eligible for sick pay.
The Prime Minister has now advised everyone to stop non-essential contact with other people by working from home where possible and avoiding pubs, clubs and theatres. Experts have warned that this could push 14 million people who live in poverty into hunger and homelessness, which is why we on these Benches call on the Government to bring forward a package of emergency financial security measures to give people the security and confidence that they need to follow public health advice as part of our collective national endeavour.
The Government have confirmed that the NHS has insufficient ventilators to cope with the number of people who may be admitted to hospital. We certainly welcome the announcement that car makers and defence contractors will be asked to switch production to make medical equipment a national priority. Can the Minister confirm whether it is true that the European Union has passed a regulation so that medical equipment can be exported outside the EU only with special regulatory authority? If true, that would cut us off from a huge number of ventilator manufacturers. What action are the Government taking to increase the number of medical staff who will be trained to deal with respiratory care?
Baroness Brinton (LD)
I too thank the Secretary of State and the Minister for the Statement. I also thank the Prime Minister, the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser for the press conference earlier, which laid out the new advice that we will have to take into account. I will come to this at the end of my comments, but I note in particular the advice to people over 70 and with underlying health conditions; I have been asking in your Lordships’ House for specific advice for about six weeks now—at last, it is here. A couple of points of clarification would be useful but it is extremely helpful.
I also thank all NHS and social care staff, public health officials in our local communities and other public servants who are all now working above and beyond even the emergency duty. We on these Benches recognise them across the country in everything they do. Our thoughts are with those who are currently ill and the families of those who have died.
I will not repeat much of what the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, said, but I want to make the point that the past week has seen a big sea change in attitude among not just the public but many experts who may not be epidemiologists but certainly have an understanding of modelling. It is important to keep them onside by making sure that the modelling is published; I echo the concerns that that has not happened yet, although I note that Chris Whitty said that it would become available in due course.
I share the horror at the Daily Telegraph article being behind a paywall. Notably, some of the largest American newspapers are making every single article on coronavirus free so that the public can access it; I wonder whether we could encourage our newspapers to do the same.
On testing, which seems to be the big issue of the day, I had an email from a friend who has been in a hospital in London with a severe case of coronavirus. That person is recovering now, but it was noticeable that there was an astonishing lack of knowledge on the part of paramedics, NHS 111 and others that breathing difficulties were a symptom. It was assumed that she was having a panic attack, although she had never had one in her life before. It was clear that A&E was completely overwhelmed. There was not enough protective equipment, and the doctor who saw her said that when doctors themselves became sick at their hospitals they were told to self-isolate for seven days but were not being tested, so they did not know whether they were immune or infectious.
The doctor concerned was desperate, and said that testing seemed to be happening only in care homes and in hospital outbreaks. The whole system had been overwhelmed. According to the Health Service Journal, the Department of Health and Social Care has said that the regime is set up to provide testing, but at the moment it is unclear how it will be applied. More and more of the people we are asking to go on to the front line are feeling very exposed.
Moving on to some workforce issues, various airline companies have announced that they are in real trouble; I think everybody understands why. And they are not alone. From these Benches, I express real concern about the Prime Minister’s announcement today, in which he encouraged people not to go to clubs, cinemas, restaurants and theatres. That is likely to mean that many of those businesses will not be able to claim on their insurance, as they could if this was an instruction, as opposed to a guide. Can the Minister tell us why the Prime Minister used that framing? It will cause serious problems for many small businesses.
As for other money issues, it is reported that there is a very large drop in donations to food banks. What will the Government do to ensure that the many thousands of people who rely on food banks will continue to get the support they need, when most people are no longer dropping two or three items into the boxes as they leave the supermarket?
There was some debate recently, involving the House of Commons Library, about sanctions for those attending jobcentres. According to the Library report, Will Quince MP had said that there would be discretion, and that people would not be sanctioned as long as they let the jobcentre know before the appointment. There are two problems there. First, if someone is sick they may not be able to call in and spend the hours it takes on the phone to do that. Secondly, if staff at the DWP are ill, there may not be enough people available to take those messages. Surely during this crisis—the Prime Minister has made it plain how severe it is—sanctions should be stopped for everybody.
Finally, on the advice to the over-70s, I am grateful that Chris Whitty said this afternoon that anybody, adult or child, with an underlying condition, including anybody who had had to have a flu jab, should consider taking action, especially if they have respiratory problems. Can the Minister confirm that and make it clear? I understand that the message about flu jabs has just come down from the website, so I am concerned that there will be confusion. There is no doubt about people who are immunosuppressed, but will he please reassure people who use inhalers—that is certainly one of the categories on the Department of Health and Social Care website—that they will be included?
Lord Bethell
My Lords, I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton and Lady Brinton, for their testing but important questions. Let me go through them systematically. As there were quite a few, I will do it at pace.
I can reassure the Chamber that the CMO has committed to publishing advice. It is extremely complicated, because the models used by SAGE are the result of many different collaborators submitting papers to a central committee, so publishing something simple and robust that can be used by third parties is not as easy as it might initially seem. But that commitment has been made, and we support the commitment to transparency.
In answer to the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, about other countries’ data, I reassure the Chamber that there is an extremely strong spirit of collaboration between the countries of the world in fighting this virus. The Prime Minister had a G7 call over the weekend, in which there was a very strong commitment by those countries. That will begin a cascade of inclusion to other countries around the world in order to launch a real commitment to combating the virus. That spirit of collaboration is a powerful and encouraging dimension of an otherwise very difficult situation.
Both the noble Baronesses asked about tests: this is a really important question. The tests that we have are, rightly, being concentrated—as the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, alluded to—on ICU units and care homes. The reason is that it is likely that those who show the most symptoms are also the most infectious. Therefore, the people who are most likely to catch the virus are those who are nearest those who have the strongest symptoms. Those include our healthcare workers, who not only deserve to be protected but need to be, in order to keep our health and social care system working. That is, therefore, where the tests are being focused.
It is also worth saying that, until the end of this week or next week, we are at the very tail end of the winter flu cycle when, if you have a cough or a cold, it could be any number of viruses. However, that is likely to change and, as we go forward, if you do have a cough and a temperature, it will be most likely that you have coronavirus and so the relevance of testing diminishes. None the less, we are working extremely hard to increase the number of tests available and the way in which we test will move to bedside instead of central testing. We hope to be able to develop an at-home test. I believe that there is news of that on the horizon.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton and Lady Brinton, both asked about the media. I reassure the House that the article in the Telegraph was not behind a paywall; it was freely available from 11.20 pm last night. I can confirm that, if any noble Lord has any concerns about it. The Prime Minister has made a commitment to daily updates, in the company of his medical advisers. The public have clearly found that approach reassuring, and it will continue during this important phase of the virus.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked about those with underlying health conditions and whether the definitions were clear. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about flu jabs and whether those on the flu jab list would be contacted. I reassure both noble Baronesses that those on the flu jab list will be contacted by their GPs within the next few days. Advice will be given and, where necessary, health and care packages put in place for them. Those with underlying health conditions will be contacted by local GPs in order to clarify exactly what kind of risks individuals face.
Both noble Baronesses rightly brought up the question of the economy. This is an area of massive concern, not only to the Government but to everyone whose job and livelihood are threatened by a slowdown in the economy. Without doubt, the recommendation to close clubs, pubs, theatres and all manner of social gatherings will have a profound effect on the economy. The Chancellor has already committed billions of pounds to an economic fund to try to support those industries. Further work is being put into place to ensure that businesses can see this epidemic through.
Those who are homeless or in the gig economy will be the particular focus of measures. We are working extremely hard to change the system of statutory sick pay to include those who would not necessarily be captured by the usual arrangements. That work is still in progress, but we look forward to providing an update when the coronavirus emergency Bill is brought to Parliament on Thursday.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton and Lady Brinton, asked about ventilators. These are clearly the key pieces of equipment that we need to combat the most profound effects of the virus. We have 5,000 in our stock and are working extremely hard to increase that number dramatically. Industry has responded extremely positively. We have been overwhelmed by the response from all parts of industry, from big, established companies to innovators, academics and those with good ideas for how to increase the number of ventilators. We were already in the market many weeks ago and have done a lot to shore up our supplies.
It is entirely right that any number of ventilators will not be any good if you do not have the staff to man them, so we are going about retraining existing clinical staff in how to use them. To give an example, on Saturday I sat next to a surgeon who has found that his operating theatre has been turned into a respiratory support unit. He and his anaesthetist are learning how to work the respirator.
The NHS undoubtedly faces a period of enormous pressure. There is no amount of special pleading that I can do from this Dispatch Box to hide the fact that front-line clinicians and support staff will be under huge pressure. They will take profound personal risks and they are being asked to deliver an important national duty. As I am sure that everyone in the Chamber does, I pay tribute to the work that they have already done and to the work in prospect on the horizon.
Lastly, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about food banks. I reassure her that we have a full understanding of the challenge faced by charities—the collapse of not only food donations but financial donations. That is why special provision has been given to DCMS to provide funds for charities, which will play an incredibly important part in many aspects of this national effort, particularly in providing the kind of support to social care needed for those who face an extremely difficult time of loneliness and exclusion as they take the correct decision to socially distance themselves from this virus.
Coronavirus
Baroness Brinton Excerpts(4 years, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Thornton (Lab)
I am grateful to the Minister for repeating the Commons Statement and updating the House this morning. I repeat my noble friend Lady Wheeler’s congratulations to him on his—slightly overdue —promotion to Minister.
Our thoughts and condolences are with the loved ones of the eight people who have, sadly, lost their lives because of this virus. Of course we also join the noble Lord in giving our best wishes to the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State and to her staff in her department, private office and parliamentary offices, who I am sure will be worried as well. We are now learning that there may be another Health Minister and a couple of MPs self-isolating right now. I also thank the Lord Speaker for keeping us so well informed throughout.
I declare my interest as a member of a local CCG and a health and well-being committee, as in the register. Can the Minister explain what the advice is for those who work on this estate, feel ill and present symptoms, but have not, as far as they are aware, been in contact with the Parliamentary Under-Secretary, for example, or one of the MPs? Should they be tested as a matter of routine?
I also thank the Minister for the advice he has provided on the operation of Parliament. It is quite right that we continue to raise issues on behalf of the public, hold our Government to account, and send a message that we are here to both support and question. We welcome the opportunity to discuss emergency legislation, and I look forward to the Minister inviting a cross-party group of us, as we would normally have in this house, to participate in those discussions in due course.
The Minister knows that we support the actions of the Chief Medical Officer and strongly agree that we must be guided by the science. However, I press the Minister further on the epidemiology and latest medical advice about whether we should move from the containment to the delay stage and adopt further social distancing strategies. What is his response to those who suggest—the editor-in-chief of the Lancet, for example, and others in the global science community—that we are not following the epidemiology in the way we might and are placing too much emphasis on behavioural science?
There are countries taking different approaches across the world. Last night, Atlético Madrid fans arrived—and, as it turned out, celebrated—in Liverpool at a game which would not have been held in Madrid due to social distancing procedures. Can the noble Lord please explain the thinking about why we are not taking more stringent social distancing measures? I have gathered from social media, literally just now, that the Republic of Ireland has decided to close its schools.
We welcome the extra funding for the NHS and social care announced as part of the Covid-19 response fund in the Budget. It is, of course, what we all expected to happen. Are representatives of the Local Government Association and the social care organisations at the table when emergency measures and expenditure are discussed? How will this money be allocated and what will happen when it is depleted? The NHS is seeking to scale up the number of intensive care beds sevenfold. At some point, the fund will need topping up and I hope we will not have to wait until the spending review process in the summer.
The Minister knows that on these Benches we are keen to be supportive, but it is hugely disappointing and astonishing that we still have no clarity on public health funding. I spoke to a director of public health yesterday, and asked if they have their funding agreement, which starts in April. They do not. This is a matter of extreme urgency, so I ask yet again: when will the directors of public health responsible for the coronavirus multi-agency responses know what their allocations will be for the financial year starting in April?
We need to do all we can to support NHS and social care staff, so may I specifically ask about care homes? The NHS Confederation has called for the suspension of Care Quality Commission inspections. Care homes face huge challenges protecting their frail, elderly residents, and chronic staff shortages will be exacerbated by absences if staff contract the virus or need self-isolation. Does the Minister agree, given the circumstances, that the NHS Confederation’s request to suspend those inspections and scale them back is sensible?
I want to ask the Government two more questions. First, do they recognise the burden and risk that the pandemic poses to our charitable and voluntary sectors? Not only will they be expected to deliver support and care during the next few months, but many will see a massive reduction in their income. At the local level, community organisations that care and cater for many different groups, or run cultural, art and community events are all at risk. They will not be able to undertake normal fundraising events, runs, collections and so on. Has any consideration been given to the effect on this important part of our civic infrastructure and how best it can be helped to survive this too?
Secondly, in my work as a member of a CCG, I have picked up reports that communications at the moment may not be working as well as they might be. They seem to be working from the centre down but, at the local level in boroughs and towns, it is the GPs and people working at the front line who need to be absolutely clear about what is expected of them. There are numerous and growing reports that the 111 service is struggling, with delays in responding to emails and organising testing, as well as very long delays in answering the phone. I therefore raise again with the Minister that we need more clarity, more communication and greater accuracy, which I hope is going to happen very soon.
Covid-19 is now an official pandemic as designated by the World Health Organization, and we all have to do as much as we can to help to contain this virus and stop its spread. The Government have our continued co-operation because public health, well-being and safety must come first.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, I echo the thanks of the Official Opposition to the team for the briefings with Chris Whitty, and indeed for the communications from the Lord Speaker and other staff in the House to keep not only Peers aware of what is going on but the wider staff in Parliament. That is absolutely vital and reassuring.
I want to pick up on the point that has been raised about whether we are in delay or not and the difficulties over the past three or four days, where both Chris Whitty and his deputy CMO have said publicly that effectively we are in delay. We know that this is a transition, not a drop-dead moment—
Noble Lords
Baroness Brinton
I apologise for using an inappropriate term. None the less, even yesterday the Secretary of State said that we were not in delay. I recognise that things are moving very fast, but it is worrying that the Government keep saying that they are following the clinical advice yet there seem to be some differences in this. That matters in the light of what is happening elsewhere in Europe. Whether we close schools is obviously down to the advice of Chris Whitty, who is an epi- demiologist. He has been clear that there are disadvantages as well as advantages. What we are concerned about is that it is beginning to feel as though the professional advice is differing slightly from the political advice.
I am very pleased that the Government have responded to the WHO news about moving to a pandemic, and this morning’s letter from Chris Whitty to all doctors is extremely helpful in setting out their roles in being flexible and having to do things differently. But we know that the Italians have struggled with the number of hospital beds in ITU, and of ECMO beds, ventilators and other specialist equipment. By the way, it is really good that China is now helping Italy out. Learning as a global community from one outbreak area onwards is excellent.
However, the data paints a worrying picture. Japan and Korea top the OECD table for hospital beds per thousand at 13 and 12; Italy has 3.2 and the UK 2.5. What is happening to ensure that we have the ITU beds and ventilators that will be needed for the more severe cases which, as the news from Italy has shown, has been very problematic? Last night, a former public health director, Professor John Ashton, said on “Newsnight”:
“We’ve got a complacent attitude … We’ve wasted a month. If this now spreads the way it looks as though it’s likely to spread, there will not be enough hospital beds and people will have to be nursed at home.”
I am afraid that there are still holes in the advice and action, especially in social care. I shall repeat the concern that yesterday no extra money was provided in the baseline Budget for social care. Also, while the Secretary of State made it clear that social care is being included in the emergency coronavirus grant, that is for adult social care only. I repeat the question that I and my colleagues in another place keep on asking: what about the most vulnerable children who are often on ventilators or, if not, they end up on ventilators if they get even a cold? If there is no extra resource for them, that is a real problem. Many parents are hearing that everything is about care for the elderly. Children may be asymptomatic, but these children will not be, so it is vital that they are given support. If the Minister cannot answer that now, I would be really grateful for a reply outside.
The Secretary of State talked in the Statement about everyone working together. As we move into the delay section, we already know that directors of public health, councils and other key stakeholders such as CCGs are doing fantastic work, but—as many of us know that communication between Public Health England and the directors of public health has been a problem—can the Minister reassure the House that those lines of communication are working effectively and being monitored by senior people in both the NHS and government?
I echo the points about the announcement of the public health grant. That is the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care’s responsibility. We are only a fortnight away from the new financial year. It is ridiculous that we do not have the details.
Will the Government relax appraisal and re-registration requirements during Covid so that we are fighting the virus and the specialists are not having to fill in paper the whole time?
Finally, where is the personal protective equipment for social care? It will undoubtedly be needed, not just in care homes but for those being nursed at home.
Lord Bethell
My Lords, I thank the noble Baronesses for those excellent questions. I will take them at some pace, because there were a lot of extremely worthwhile questions and I will try to answer them as best I can.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked about advice. I would like to explain to the Chamber the effectiveness of the contact tracing that Public Health England has put in place. Nadine Dorries shared her diary with Public Health England officials. They have gone through an extremely thorough contact-tracing process and have identified those individuals most at risk. It is a feature of our strategy for dealing with this virus that we have put contact tracing very much at the heart of what we do. It has proved an extremely effective measure. I understand from the Chief Medical Officer that more than half of those positively identified as carrying the virus in the UK have been identified through contact tracing, which is an indication of how thorough that process is and how effective it has been.
For those who remain concerned, the guidance from 111 is that it is those who show symptoms who should present themselves for a test. Those who have been in proximity but are not currently showing symptoms should use common sense and isolate if they feel like it, but that is not the positive guidance from 111.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Thornton and Lady Brinton, both asked about containment and delay. The truth is that we are in a transition period. The CMO’s advice is that the virus will almost inevitably spread through the British population, but the testing statistics speak for themselves. On 11 March 2020, 27,476 tests had taken place and only 456 had tested positive. The simple arithmetic of that is that if you are ill and feeling poorly at the moment, you probably do not have coronavirus. We are still at the tail end of the winter flu cycle; many germs are still in circulation. As yet, although coronavirus has been identified in many places in the country, it is not turning up in a very high incidence or proportion of those tested.
We are not complacent about this; we take it very seriously indeed. We can see the storm on the horizon, but the question of timing is incredibly delicate. I understand the frustration and concern in this Chamber, the media and the general public that not enough is being done, but the science, modelling and guidance from those who study epidemics are clear that we have to get the timing right. When we do, we will move emphatically, clearly and in a focused way, but we have to get that choice right.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, specifically mentioned schools. The evidence suggests that, thankfully, children are not strongly affected by this virus, if at all. It is not currently clear whether those who are infected are infectious. There are strong signs that if they are infectious, they are not very infectious. There needs to be a degree of sense when it comes to the infection. In the balance between the social and economic effects of closing schools and taking mums and dads out of the workplace versus the safety of the children, particularly the effects on clinical and care workers, the opinion of the Chief Medical Officer and those who advise him is that closing schools is not the correct option in the UK today.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, asked about the LGA and social care associations. I will reassure her on two fronts. They are very much engaged in all our preparations. Money is very much on the table and the resources that they need to combat this virus will be there to top up their budgets. The same is true on public health funding: the CMO is actively engaged with directors of public health to ensure that they have the resources they need.
The noble Baroness also asked about inspections for care homes and recent submissions by those who run care homes. I assure the House that we are listening to all those organisations that have concerns about inspection regimes and meeting legal requirements when physical resources and resources of people and time are under huge pressure. We hear their concerns loud and clear and will be making realistic provisions about those inspections and legal requirements.
The noble Baroness asked about the charitable sector. I hear its concerns but hope that this incident will be a massive opportunity for communities to come together and for the charitable sector to play an important role in providing support in care and to clinical staff. Funding for the sector is being looked at by DCMS. I have been updated by the Minister concerned, who assures me that their plans are progressing and that engagement is happening in a very serious way.
The noble Baroness also asked about CCGs and shared her anecdotes about the pressures on CCGs. Let me be absolutely clear: pressure is inevitable. There will be huge pressures on the people and the resources at every level, particularly in front-line and primary care, but we are working extremely hard to ensure that they have the physical manpower and administrative resources that they need to meet the challenge. For example, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about PPE suits. They are being delivered, if not this week then next week. We have listened to the concerns of CCGs about the provision of suitable protection resources, and deliveries are happening as we speak. I hope that the recent letter from the CMO provides the kind of clear guidance that CCGs have been looking for.
In terms of registration documentation, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about those returning to work. It is a primary concern of ours, because the current arrangements for those seeking to return to work in front-line clinical roles are clunky and administratively onerous. The process takes a long time and is completely unsuitable for the challenge we have ahead. That is one of the important measures that we will be addressing in the week ahead.
Specialist beds are our primary concern. The experiences of China and Italy make it crystal clear that those who have severe respiratory responses to the virus are creating the greatest demand on resources and are at the greatest risk. We are doing everything we can to convert existing resources into relevant, suitable provisions for those who will need respiratory help, and we are working hard with the oxygen manufacturers and providers to ensure that we have the kit and the personnel to answer that need.
Both the noble Baronesses, Lady Brinton and Lady Thornton, asked about social care. I reassure the House that the financial provisions outlined by the Chancellor yesterday will include all aspects of social care, including those relating to children and the most vulnerable in society. Directors of public health will be included in decisions about how those financial resources are allocated.