Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill

Debate between Baroness Blake of Leeds and Lord Wallace of Saltaire

Committee stage
Thursday 20th April 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, this amendment is to ask for much more information from the Government on the international implications of the Bill, which is a way of asking whether the Bill is serious in terms of enforcement. Most serious economic crime—indeed, all serious economic crime nowadays—is cross-border: the money is taken out of your bank account and rapidly moved to another jurisdiction. One of the huge problems we all face in a globalised economy is that policing is bounded by sovereign borders and criminals are not. Therefore, Governments are forced to co-operate across them.

One of the questions I hope we will pursue on these amendments and the ones that follow on the overseas territories is how Whitehall ensures that the various parts of it that deal with the various parts of our international efforts to combat different forms of crime—terrorist financing, drug smuggling, people smuggling, et cetera—co-ordinate, and which are the lead departments for what. Reference has already been made to HMRC and the Treasury. I note that, in Washington, the US State Department has now established a State Department-led but cross-department anti-corruption board to deal with these necessarily cross-border problems. I hope the Minister will be able to tell us—if not now then perhaps, as I asked at Second Reading, in a briefing in the context of the Bill—how Whitehall will make the necessary changes to ensure that different departments work together coherently in coping with these very complex problems.

It might help if I remark briefly on how I became involved in some of these problems of international crime. In 1989 I was director of research at Chatham House, the international affairs think tank. I was approached by a chief inspector who was then head of the strategy unit at the Metropolitan Police to ask if we could run a seminar on the international dimensions of policing, now that it seemed likely that the Berlin Wall might come down. As it happened, I was then attached briefly to an institute in Germany, in Bavaria, and when I asked it whether I could get any briefing on the subject, which I knew nothing about, I found myself very rapidly being taken to the Bundesnachrichtendienst headquarters and given a very thorough intelligence briefing on how the German Government were approaching the likely explosion of cross-border crime that would accompany the end of that very hard border that had kept a lot of crime away from western Europe.

Since then, we have had 30 years of globalisation, the communications revolution, digitisation and international banking deregulation, which have made cross-border economic crime far easier, far faster and far harder to keep up with. It is no accident that the Financial Action Task Force, one of the main mechanisms for international intergovernmental co-operation in combating money laundering, was also founded in 1989 by the G7; it saw what was coming. Perhaps the Minister can consider whether we could have a briefing on this to be told more about how effective the Financial Action Task Force is.

When I looked rapidly for an update on the FATF, I was a little worried to find that there is rather more up-to-date information on Wikipedia than there is in statements from GOV.UK, which tend to be from 2015, 2018 or 2019. The Wikipedia comments say that the FATF is now pretty good at setting standards and maintaining a blacklist and a grey list of countries that do not observe basic international standards. Some of your Lordships will have seen the article in the Financial Times yesterday about the Government of Panama hoping that it may finally be about to be taken off the grey list, which has clearly damaged its position as an international financial centre. But apart from reporting and setting standards, the FATF does very little in terms of enforcement. The question of enforcement, verification and the exchange of information is extremely relevant to whether the Bill is really going to make a difference to our pursuit of economic crime.

I followed the development of international police co-operation in the 1990s, partly because, when I came here, I became chair of the sub-committee of the European Union Committee that dealt with justice and home affairs, and thus followed quite closely the development of Europol, the Schengen Information System and those other forms of European police co-operation. I was struck by the extent to which progress was driven not by any commitment to some fantasy of a European superstate but by the demands of police forces and intelligence agencies in different countries. They needed to share information—in good, constant time if possible—and share activities and operations, as they now do. Of course, we have now left Europol and the Schengen Information System, which has denied the British authorities access to one of the closest ways in which we used to share information on transborder economic crime. I am not very well informed about the other mechanisms, apart from the OECD’s various activities on beneficial ownership and the FATF, which we find useful.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, may remind us, David Lammy, the shadow Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, proposed some weeks ago that there should be a transatlantic anti-corruption council to bring together more closely the various agencies, authorities and law enforcement bodies concerned with these areas. I am not aware that the British Government are actively engaged in all this, so my amendment asks the Government to tell us what the current situation is, what their strategy is and how this intrinsic element of any serious approach to economic crime will be treated. If they are unable to do that, they cannot be very serious about the enforcement of action against economic crime, which is not, after all, primarily a domestic matter. I beg to move.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I will respond to the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, in moving his Amendment 68. I was very struck, looking back at the comments from Second Reading. He very forcibly talked about the international dimension and how important it is, and the fact that the international dimension in the Bill generally is thin; I think those were the words he used. I think we all knew that we would require amendments to look at this area. I am keen to understand from the Minister what actually is being proposed.

We talk a great deal about collecting data, but one of the rules of thumb I have always worked with is that data is of use only if it is open and transparent, there is a responsibility for the data to be analysed and, where things are held up as being untoward, appropriate action is taken.

I do not want to draw out the debate, but this could be an opportunity for the Minister to give us an update about the progress made since the Government launched the register of overseas entities on 1 August. What is the Government’s assessment of the success of the register and of the beneficial ownership registration being set at 25%? Do we know whether many companies are avoiding this by spreading out shares throughout a family? We know that there were significant concerns about nominee arrangements being used to disguise true beneficial owners. What is the Government’s assessment of this, now that the register has been introduced, and will they use the regulation-making powers in the existing economic crime Act to address this?

I anticipate a full response to the issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace. I would like to understand and am seeking reassurance that the Government are putting arrangements in place. As we have heard, the scale of the co-operation is quite significant. It needs constant review, and it needs to relate to finance, trade and crime. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

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[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

I will simply comment on the capacity question, which the Minister raised. There is a clear distinction between our Crown dependencies and some of our smaller overseas territories. The Crown dependencies have a lot of qualified people, and I am well aware that, in recent years, they have increased their staff capacity to cope with the rising amount of international financial business they have been dealing with. One regrets that, in some of the smaller and, I have to say, weaker overseas territories, there is not enough capacity and trained staff. They are further away from the United Kingdom. There are reputational questions and costs if and when a major scandal breaks out, as in the Turks and Caicos Islands, to the UK’s standing in the world because they are under our protection, they follow UK law and they have the reputation of having UK law.

I am conscious that this is part of a wider problem in the global financial system. The argument has been made to me in the past by people from these territories: “After all, if people do not come here as their offshore financial centre, they’ll go to somewhere dodgier and smaller, perhaps in the Pacific rather than the Caribbean.” We are all conscious of there always being that set of issues, but the UK and its associated territories need to ensure that, in managing a complicated global financial system, our overall contribution is one of which we continue to be proud and that all those territories for which we are responsible maintain higher standards. That is what this is really about.

We recognise how much has been done and how well Crown dependencies have improved the quality of their oversight in recent years, but some territories will simply not have enough people who are prepared to live there for 12 months a year to deal with the quantity and complexity of the financial movements through them. That has to be a matter for our long-term concern. I would love to hear more about the Open Ownership charity that is involved in helping them with this, because we clearly have to assist them to develop their capacity to cope with an increasingly complicated, and often dodgy, set of offerings from countries with which we have to deal but which do not have the same standards as us.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this group of amendments. We have uncovered some important areas, but the overarching consideration, as we know and as has been mentioned, is the damage to our reputation if this matter is not addressed.

I take some comfort from the Minister’s offer to meet us to talk this through in more detail, but I remain concerned about the very real question of progress. If the necessary progress has not been made across the piece by the end of the year, I would like to know exactly what the Government are intending.

Given the sensitivity about relationships and the different stages that places are at, which has been highlighted so well, it would be useful to know whether there is an established framework around support and approach to make sure there is consistency in achieving this. This is not a terribly ambitious request; it should be straightforward. I look forward to our further discussions and, with those comments, beg leave to withdraw my amendment.