Making Britain a Clean Energy Superpower

Debate between Anthony Mangnall and David Duguid

Thursday 9th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols). Her faith in technology—she read her speech from it—is far greater than mine. I have seen many a speech kiboshed in mid-flow. I agree with much of what she said. There is certainly work that can be done on mental health and PIP. I have always been amazed by PIP assessors’ inability to understand the causes or symptoms of the issues from which people are suffering, and by their inability sometimes to understand whether or not a claimant’s circumstances might change. The constant need to reanalyse claimants throughout their lifetime causes a great deal of hardship for family members who have to do the applications. My office spends a great deal of time on the issue.

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate in support of the King’s Speech. I am surprised that we have not heard a little more positivity in today’s debate because, across the House, it is recognised that we have been a leader on energy markets, on growing our economy and on cutting emissions. The Vallance report, for example, identifies this country’s extraordinary growth. Between 1990 and 2019, we grew our economy by 78% and, at the same time, cut emissions by 44%, which shows the significant changes we have made in this country and our significant progress in creating a green economy.

We have to remind people, both in this Chamber and across the country, that we have cut emissions faster than any other country in the G7, which is something to be proud of and to build upon—and we forget it at our peril. It breeds hope among our people and our businesses that we can set up the infrastructure and the network to encourage more businesses to do the same.

I have heard from many Members on both sides of the House about how they hope to see oil companies become a dying breed. I say this with a little caution, but I do not think there is a single person in this room who, if we could flick a switch and transition immediately to a green economy—taking all the oil industry jobs and all the investment with us—would not gladly flick that switch. In the absence of a switch, we have to encourage and push the oil companies to go green, as so many of them are. The oil companies are part of the answer to a greener economy. Encouraging them to invest in solar, wind and marine power has to be part and parcel of that mix and structure.

I am also surprised that, in this debate, we have not spoken more about the Treasury’s position on incentivising businesses to do more to invest in green technologies in this country, whether through tax credits, encouraging research and development, innovation funds, the UK Infrastructure Bank—I can see the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury nodding; he knows a great deal about this—or the £22 billion of capital that has been made available for businesses to invest in this sector in the United Kingdom. We forget that at our peril, because it will create the certainty to help us transition to a cleaner, greener economy that addresses climate change.

That said, we can all recognise the opportunities. I will cite a few examples from my constituency of Totnes and South Devon. The first is marine energy. We have some of the strongest tides in the world, and we should use them. Until recently, I would have argued that our interest and investment in marine energy has been lacklustre, yet recent trials across the country, supported by the UK Government, have shown the huge potential to go green in our coastal areas. Indeed, a vicar in Dartmouth is trying to make his church the first marine energy-powered church in the country. Such things need to be promoted and supported.

We need to review things like tidal lagoons. It has been far too long since we have had a proper debate in this place on the Swansea tidal lagoon and the power it would have generated. There are mechanisms out there to support these things, and we have to explore them to make sure we have a diverse mix—not just solar and wind but marine and, as others have said, nuclear, and using the last vestiges of oil and gas where necessary.

I do not know whether he is still sponsoring this Bill but, two years ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Wantage (David Johnston) presented the Local Electricity Bill. Many of us on both sides of the House supported the Bill, which would have allowed electricity generators to become local electricity suppliers. I very much welcome what the Secretary of State said in her opening remarks, because she talked about upgrading the grid. If we can upgrade the grid, the possibilities of the Local Electricity Bill would be immense and we could find all sorts of innovative ways to power local communities.

An example in my constituency is Sustainable South Brent, which has erected a wind turbine that is powering parts of the village and helping to reduce the costs for those buildings. We should be trying to replicate these things across the country, but we can only do so if we upgrade the grid and encourage and embolden local communities to take such action.

It was a privilege to hear the speech of my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore), and I agreed with much of it, although I am sorry that he will not be voting for the King’s Speech. He is right that we are a paragon and a model to the rest of the world, and that we have been a leader in this area. Where I disagree with him is that I think we are still a leader.

Of course, we have to take people with us. We are in this place only because people have sent us here to represent their views, and there is a great deal of scepticism out there. The Prime Minister is right to be honest with people about the cost of the green transition. He is right to make sure that we are realistic about our plans and proposals, and he is right to try to minimise the significant costs that might end up on people’s doorstep. Those things are to be applauded, and I do not think they are watering down our green agenda.

I wish to make a few remarks about other parts of the King’s Speech. I serve on the Select Committee on Business and Trade, having served on the former Select Committee on International Trade. We have to inject a bit more energy—literally—into our trade deals. A number of countries want to sign up to free trade agreements with the UK, including Morocco. It wants to introduce a solar and wind interconnector to the UK, and an FTA can help to facilitate that. The fact that it is rumoured that the connecting point will be in Devon has nothing to do with my raising this matter, because I do not believe it would be in my constituency. This does show the power and potential in our trade agreements to find new ways in which we can co-operate on an international scale to help harness the power of our natural resources.

Our trade agreements are the perfect way in which we can help harness and create technology here and trade it with like-minded countries around the world. We have already heard the important points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) about battery power and battery technology in this country, and the relationship the UK has with Canada. We need more of that, because that is what our FTAs can facilitate.

[David Duguid]

My hon. Friend knows more about trade than many people in this place. In addition to all the different renewable and sustainable energy technologies we could be exporting that we develop here, does he agree that an opportunity is provided by the mere act of having a successful transition from 75% oil and gas dependency today to 20% oil and gas in the future? Being seen to be able to do that and our showing how to do that can, in itself, be an exportable commodity?

[Anthony Mangnall]

My hon. Friend is spot on. If we can help and support those emerging democracies and economies around the world to leapfrog the intensive carbon industries that they think they might need, and to go in a green direction, it will be to the benefit of not just our countries and economies, but the whole world. We should absolutely be talking about this stuff.

The hon. Member for Warrington North mentioned the CPTPP and trade scrutiny. I have caused the Government constant angst by talking about scrutiny. The debate on CPTPP is welcome and I look forward to seeing as many Members as there are in the Chamber now when that Bill comes before the House. I firmly believe that if this House is denied proper scrutiny, we are all poorer off in our constituencies, with our respective businesses, farmers and fishermen. It should be part of our due process that we make sure that a proper, significant level of scrutiny is provided in this place.

With that in mind, I have a proposal: it is time to update Labour’s Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 to make sure, now that we are outside the European Union, that we have a proper debate on it, with a votable motion if that is required. Let me add an aside: it would be advisable to give Privy Counsellor status to all members of the Business and Trade Committee —I declare my interest on that front. There is an important point to this, which is that we can do better, as we have seen with the trade agreements that have come before. We need greater attendance, scrutiny and ability to talk up the benefits of the trade deals.

I am sorry to focus on the hon. Member for Warrington North, but she said that 0.8% was not a lot. I urge caution on forecasts, because on trade deals they are often wrong. They are judged at a static point, rather than on the basis of how businesses take advantage of them. In nearly every instance of a trade agreement that is signed—such as the North American free trade agreement, which was predicted not to be worth a significant amount to the United States economy but turned out to be worth a great deal more—we should not necessarily go with the forecasts. There are enough quotes out there to say why economists are wrong. However, I welcome the Bill and the opportunity for more discussion about joining one of the fastest growing regions in the world.

Let me make a couple more points. I have already spoken before in this place about the Renters (Reform) Bill. We do badly when we pass pieces of legislation quickly. I welcome the fact that we have committed to repealing section 21 evictions in that Bill, but we need to make sure that we have a Bill that works for both landlords and tenants. We have to have that balance, because at it stands we are about to present a Bill into Parliament that will deter people from putting properties into the long-term rental market. It will incentivise the short-term market over the long-term rental market, which will be a disadvantage to the millions of tenants in this country. We must be careful about that. It is easy for us to clip small parts of our speeches in this place and put them out because they say the right thing, but the devil is in the detail and we have to get it right.

It is fantastic to see the Prime Minister double down on apprenticeships, T-levels and what we can do with further education. South Devon College, in my constituency, is the absolute exemplar of what can be done in further education. It trains people in subjects from photonics to boat building, bricklaying to hospitality and tourism—the range is staggering—and it has Government funding and support. The more we can encourage businesses and students to take advantage of the opportunities in their areas that lie within our agenda for further education, the better off people will be in finding jobs and the more likely we will be to find ways in which we can create businesses, not just in centralised parts of the country but across all the regions of the UK.

Finally, over the last few days we have spoken a lot about what the King’s Speech says about keeping people safe. There is no doubt that it is right that we have a robust response to those who have committed the most heinous crimes. As ever, we can do far more to tackle antisocial behaviour and rural crime in areas across the south-west and other parts of the country. Local initiatives have been set up across the south-west that the Government would do well to support, not least the councillor advocate scheme, set up by Alison Hernandez, the police and crime commissioner for Devon and Cornwall, in which she liaises with councillors across the area to enhance police visibility and engagement, or my own initiative to create police hubs in village halls across South Devon, driving up visibility, disrupting rural crime and antisocial behaviour and inspiring more confidence that the police are there to help and serve, as we all know they are.

It is a pleasure to be able to support the King’s Speech and to speak up about the proud record this country has in addressing climate change, reducing emissions and creating new technologies and industries. We should be proud of that, talk it up and never let the fearmongers win.

Fishing Industry

Debate between Anthony Mangnall and David Duguid

Thursday 29th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[David Duguid]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman mentions Mr Park, whom I know extremely well. I am familiar with that Daily Record article, which is from, I think, last Monday. It was the first in a series of “Why Brexit is bad” articles. If I am not mistaken—and I stand to be corrected—that quote from Mr Park is not necessarily all that up to date. I talk to Mr Park on a—[Interruption.] The article was last week, but I am not sure the quote was that recent; I stand to be corrected on that. Opposition Members are good at pulling out quotes from the likes of Mike Park, Jimmy Buchan and other key individuals in the industry who are well respected in it, but I talk to them on almost a weekly basis, and I know one thing for sure: neither Mike Park, Jimmy Buchan nor any of those others would agree with the SNP’s stance of rejoining the EU and the common fisheries policy.

On Mr Park’s remarks about what happens in 2026, that is precisely why I am asking the UK Government to confirm what they are doing now, to ensure that when we get to that point, we are not caught out by any surprises. We can be sure that the EU fisheries lobby groups will be pushing hard to get all the advantages, so we need to ensure that we are doing the same.

I have always acknowledged the disappointment felt by many in the industry that the trade and co-operation agreement, especially with the adjustment period, did not get as much as we wanted as quickly as we would have liked. Over the course of the adjustment period, 25% of the EU’s fishing quota in UK waters will be transferred to the UK. For 2023, 140,000 tonnes of catching opportunities worth some £750 million have been secured for the UK. That is a £34 million increase on last year. As an independent coastal state, our Ministers and officials and those in the devolved Administrations have a far stronger voice in those annual negotiations than they ever would have had as merely one of 28 member states of the EU.

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

I apologise for interrupting my hon. Friend, because he is making an excellent speech, but in case he is not going to mention it—I am sure he is—may I point him to the specialised trade committees within the trade and co-operation agreement, which are there for sanitary and phytosanitary measures and for fisheries and will allow us to put on to the agenda issues that we are concerned about in our relationship with France? Does he agree that we must use those specialised trade committees?

[David Duguid]

I totally agree. I would like to say that my hon. Friend had the foresight of predicting something I was going to say in my comments, but I was not, so I am grateful that he brought that up, because he is correct.

We now have control over our own fisheries regulations and management systems. Of course, we cannot apply regulations on vessels coming into our waters that do not equally apply to our vessels, but that is fine; that is how agreements between independent coastal states operate.

Inshore Industry Fishing Crews: Visas

Debate between Anthony Mangnall and David Duguid

Thursday 25th May 2023 Westminster Hall

[David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on securing the debate.

It is a genuine pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael). I wanted to intervene so many times during his speech, but I did not want to interrupt his flow. He made lots of very good points, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall). We have not heard from the SNP spokesperson yet, but I am sure that we will broadly agree on most of what we say today. We all represent fishing communities, which, as we have heard, are as wild and varied in their needs and demands as the weather conditions they often face.

I thank the Minister and his officials for meeting me earlier this week to discuss this matter in some detail. It was probably one of the longest meetings with a Minister and his officials that I have ever had, but the fact is that we barely scratched the surface, because there is so much nuance in this industry and the devil is very much in the detail.

This is not a binary issue. It is not a question of whether immigration is bad or good. It is not even a question of whether immigration is legal or illegal. Nobody in this Chamber is advocating doing anything that would be against the immigration rules or classed as illegal immigration. It is right that the UK Government take every reasonable step to stop illegal immigration, stop the small boats coming across the English channel, and stop the disgraceful practice of illegal people smugglers putting vulnerable people at risk and taking advantage of them.

We are talking about a different kind of small boat, although sometimes they are not all that small. These fishing boats operate out of some of the most remote, sparsely populated areas, where unemployment rates are often so low as to be effectively zero. As the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland said, in a lot of these areas—particularly in Orkney and Shetland, and in Banff and Buchan, which I represent—there is huge competition from other industries. Traditionally, the competition comes from the oil and gas industry, but given the energy transition, the renewable energy sector is rapidly becoming a competitor, too.

I think we all agree that the system of using transit visas, which technically allow fishermen to enter the country on the basis that they will transit outside a 12 nautical mile limit to work, is not fit for the purposes described today. I have long said that a points-based immigration system, appropriately applied, could replace that system. It is on that basis that I welcome this week’s announcement by the Home Office that share fishermen, trawler skippers and experienced deckhands on large fishing vessels are to be included on the shortage occupation list. Inclusion on the list means that jobs qualify at the 20% lower salary threshold of £20,960 instead of £26,200. However, as has been mentioned, the salaries being paid to those guys are fairly reasonable, and although that measure may help some people start out in the sector, it is not the main obstruction.

Being on the shortage occupation list also means that applicants will pay lower fees of £479 instead of £625 for a three-year visa. That is also welcome. Yet the broader English-language requirements of the skilled worker route will still apply despite the jobs being on the shortage occupation list. It will come as no surprise that, like other hon. Members, I will make that one of my main points.

I welcome the addition of experienced deckhands to the skilled worker route back in 2021. As other hon. Members have said, that followed long discussions between hon. Members such as those of us here representing our constituencies today and the Migration Advisory Committee. I have been doing this for six years; others have been doing it for longer. Through all that, there has been a genuine desire from us as representatives of our coastal communities and from the fishing industry to work constructively and in partnership with Government to come together and find the solutions that we know are there.

[Anthony Mangnall]

Of course, the debate is about the arrangements, but there is also the broader point about where we can reduce bureaucracy. We have skirted around the point about the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and health certificates. There is a series of measures by which we are inadvertently blocking people from getting back into fishing or getting into it. If we introduce the requirement for health certificates, that will have an implication for the visa arrangements of those who come over.

[David Duguid]

My hon. Friend makes a perfectly valid point. That impacts the owners of smaller boats more than those of bigger ones, because bigger boats have bigger crews. On a bigger boat, if someone does not receive their health certificate, there are other crew members who can fill the gap. With a one or two-man crew, that becomes more of an issue. My hon. Friend is right to point that out.

Let me return to my point about collaboration between the industry, us elected representatives and the Government. We should take as much advantage as possible of that desire to collaborate and act constructively in partnership and dialogue. As I found in my meeting with the Minister earlier in the week, a face-to-face discussion is so much more productive than just the odd email going back and forth.