Health and Social Care

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Thursday 16th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

That was a very thought-provoking, emotional and personal contribution from the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi), who I very much welcome to this place. She made some very important points about the NHS and knife crime, and I look forward to her working with all of us in this House to deliver exactly what she rightly says we must. I congratulate her.

It is right that health and care are a substantial part of this Gracious Speech, but it must be about action, not just words and promises. Across the House, whichever party we represent, we must deliver on what our constituents need and want and what we have promised them. I welcome the inquiry into social care. My concern is that this has been promised by Governments for years, and it seems to be taking forever and a day. This is urgent—it cannot wait. We must talk cross-party and look at the work that has been done, rather than do it all over again. Let us look at what works and does not work, take the good and move forward. I would like to see a Bill on social care in this Parliament.

Integration is another key issue. Members across the House have pushed for integration, and we need to make it happen. NHS England has proposed legislation to unblock the things preventing this from working. I am pleased to see the Bill to implement the NHS long-term plan, but I would like it to be more ambitious. It is right to address the commissioning challenge, but the Bill does not address the overlapping regulatory system, the conflicting accountability between health and social care or any of the legal relationships. Where are we with sustainability and transformation partnerships and integrated care systems? They have no legal status, yet we look to them to deliver a solution on integration. More must be done, and we must be bold.

Across the Chamber, we agree that mental health is a priority, but again, where is the ambition? Dealing with detention is crucial, but we must also look at parity of esteem. It is not defined. We talk about mental health representing something like 23% of the burden on the NHS, but how is that measured? Is that really the totality of the issue? We need to define parity of esteem, be clear how we will measure the need and address that need as a matter of urgency. We talk about achieving parity of esteem over the next 10 years, but that seems an incredibly long time. I would like to see a proper plan, and I would like to see parity considerably sooner than 10 years from now.

There was an extremely well-made speech a little earlier about wellbeing. For so long, we have talked about the NHS and health, but actually we talk about illness, not about wellness. When we talk about Public Health England, that is not the only part of trying to ensure wellbeing. Professor Dame Sally Davies, the former chief medical officer, has said that wellness is as important as dealing with illness. I would like to see that fully addressed, and I very much hope that those on the Front Bench are listening and will take that seriously.

The assets that we have to address our problems are not infinite. We have some wonderful people, we have some wonderful infrastructure—buildings and hospitals—and we have some wonderful technology.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a really strong speech. Talking of assets, in my constituency we have community hospitals in Honiton, Axminster and Seaton, which could be used to much greater effect to take some of the pressures off the acute hospitals. Honiton does good work with Ottery St Mary and others in the neighbouring seat of East Devon. Can we actually get these assets working better for us? I welcome what the Secretary of State said in his speech earlier.

[Anne Marie Morris]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and I was very pleased to hear the Secretary of State say that community hospitals were valuable. We must have a fundamental rethink of the infrastructure and look at what we really need. In rural areas, where we cannot get to the best stroke centre, say, we must think seriously about how we use or reuse such facilities.

Fly-tipping in Rural Areas

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Tuesday 21st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Anne Marie Morris]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The challenge is not just to collect the data. A constituent of mine with a large estate regularly finds that people have been fly-tipping on it. Once, while sorting through the rubbish, he found a receipt from a fast food drive-through that included a date and time stamp. He and the local police managed to find the vehicle registration number, but when they went to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency they were told that it could not release the name because of data protection. There has to be a way of using the evidence that we can get, because we cannot rely solely on catching the villains in the act, which is extraordinarily difficult, particularly in rural areas. Installing cameras everywhere would be prohibitively expensive, impractical and completely unrealistic. There has to be a better way of dealing with the evidence trail. My hon. Friend makes a sound point.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

It is really good that we are having this debate. It is not only about catching the perpetrators, either through the local authority or the Environment Agency; it is also about making sure that they are prosecuted and that the fines are very heavy. Otherwise, it is worth their while tipping the waste and saving the money, rather than taking it to a waste disposal site; if they are caught and fined, the figure is so small that they can carry on doing it. We really need to catch them and make the penalty a deterrent, because at the moment it is not.

[Anne Marie Morris]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I believe that 0.1% of fly-tippers are prosecuted, and the average penalty is a £400 fine. There is absolutely no disincentive, so why would they stop fly-tipping? That has to change.

What can we do to make the system work better? If tips just charge more, or indeed shut for four days a week, clearly that just makes the problem worse. If we do not extend opening hours, all we are doing is discouraging good citizens and good builders from disposing of their rubbish responsibly at the end of the working day.

I think that increasingly councils are trying to do this for less and less money. The consequence is that they have no incentive to extend their opening hours or reduce the cost. My local authority has recently started charging for the disposal of green waste, and the consequence has been a huge increase in fly-tipping of green waste. Indeed, in Teignbridge fly-tipping has gone up by 60% in five years, and the increase correlates with the introduction of additional charges, when there is a spike in the number of fly-tipping incidents.

Another thing that local authorities have done to try to constrain their costs is to say, “We will deal only with waste that is produced by people living in our borough or ward.” The consequence is that people are now turned away from their nearest tip. Realistically, if the Government want to encourage people to recycle and to be responsible for their waste, they need to make that easier. In the neighbouring constituency of Torbay there is a sign at the tip stating, “You have to provide evidence that you actually live in this part of Devon before you can dispose of your waste here.” We are never going to solve the problem that way.

It seems to me that we have effectively incentivised the individual householder to fly-tip, or to employ a third party to fly-tip for them, and we have incentivised the man with a van who might do furniture removals and so on to offer tip services, but then he does not get a licence and instead dumps on highways, woodland and farmland. It just does not work.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) mentioned, the penalties, even if they are imposed, are woefully low. In the magistrates court someone can get 12 months and a £50,000 fine, but I am not aware that anyone has had either of those penalties. In the Crown court they can get up to five years and an unlimited fine, but again I am not aware—perhaps the Minister is—that anyone has received those sorts of punishments. It really is a problem, and the evidence problem is probably one of the biggest challenges.

Ultimately, the Government have said that the polluter must pay, but based on everything that I have seen and everything that my colleagues have said, the polluter currently does not pay, so let us look at things in a little more detail. Who is the polluter? At one extreme, one could say that it is the owner of the rubbish. Under section 34 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, the owner has a duty of care to check that the individual to whom the rubbish is given for disposal is properly registered. I do not suppose that most people know that, that they check or that they would even know where to check. They probably also do not know when people have to be licensed, which is far from clear.

I went on the Environment Agency website, and most of the legislation and registration information was about disposal sites. There was little about the movement of waste, unless it is stored or controlled, so that might be an area to look into, or maybe I just do not have enough experience of the regulations and the Minister will be able to set me right. However, it seems as though it is quite difficult for householders to comply with that duty of care—they do not know about it and they do not know where to go to find the information. Section 33 of the 1990 Act contains a similar duty for controlled waste, and I suspect that most households are more conscious of how to dispose of fridges, batteries and electrical equipment, but there are no specific penalties or punishments. Perhaps the Minister can set me right, but I am unaware of any owner who has been on the wrong side of the law for having given a third party rubbish that has subsequently been dumped.

As for the middlemen—the man or woman with a van—for them it is a question of whether they need a licence. Most of them probably do, because they probably do store the waste somewhere along the line, but few in the business can be bothered and that leads to criminal activity. They know that the chances of getting caught or going to prison are small, so they do not bother, and they get paid when the rubbish is handed over, not when it is delivered to the tip, so where is the incentive? To fix what is wrong with the system, we need to increase the carrot and increase the stick, and we need to be clear about what fly-tipping is and not just lump it with litter or managed waste disposal, because it lies somewhere in between and is something that my constituents and many others are getting exercised about. It damages our countryside and our tourism, and it is a blight on our society.

The Government are right that one of the obvious first steps is to ensure that education is in place so that our children grow up knowing what they should and should not do. That is fine, but there are many people beyond the age of 18 who do not know that, so how are we going to get to them? That is another question for the Government. We then need to look at how to incentivise legal tipping. We must review whether we should completely remove tip charges. When they are set against the clear-up costs and the amount received in fees, we can start to see whether there is a balance. Perhaps the Minister has some ideas about that. It must also be right to extend tip opening times, because people work. We need to recognise that both mum and dad are usually working, so that means we have to allow tipping when they are not working. If people are prepared to come and dispose of waste legally, we need to enable sites to take waste from wherever it comes, which is not always the case.

We also need to consider the individuals who are the potential polluters. We need to extend the rubbish owner’s accountability. They ought to be required to ask for and see someone’s licence, and they should not pay for the rubbish to be taken away until they get some stamped receipt from the tip to say that it has actually been disposed of. The idea of trying to track waste is a good one, and we could track white goods with today’s technology; there must be barcoding, chipping systems or some means by which to do that. When we do find evidence that makes clear from which home the fly-tipped rubbish came, there should be a mechanism to trace it back to ask the householder whether they have disposed of any rubbish and who they used to do so.

Then there is the carrier, licensed or not—the man or woman with a van. How will we extend their accountability? Because of the challenges in securing a successful prosecution, the number of prosecutions has actually gone down 25% in the past year. What might we do? Maybe we could require some record keeping. At one level, a registered and licensed carrier has to keep records, but we could extend that by requiring tachographs and GPS systems. We should review again the penalties and fines, whether there are custodial sentences and at what level, and whether we should seize assets.

There is provision in some cases to seize the vehicle, which is obviously a good thing because it stops the practice continuing. If the vehicle is crushed, it clearly stops the fly-tipping completely. But there are other assets that we might consider seizing to increase the disincentive. If no fine is paid, there is also the threat of credit reference agency records. If non-payments were logged on those records, it would clearly be a black mark, and most people do not want their credit reference in any way negatively affected. We might also consider lifetime bans for anyone who is found to be undertaking such activity without a licence.

There are a number of issues. We need to consider better interagency working. It would certainly help if the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency were prepared to work with local authorities to identify the cars, drivers and owners—having an evidence trail is very important.

I turn now to the victims. Landowners are stuck. Two thirds of farmers have reported fly-tipping of one sort or another and, under section 59 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, they can be required by the local authority or the Environment Agency to clear up 100% of the mess, but they are not the polluters.

It is impossible to prevent fly-tipping cost-effectively. My local community has tried by digging ditches around carparks and by putting up fences and cameras, but the cameras get smashed by the fly-tippers. It is very difficult. Only 13% of farmers and landowners tend to insure, so very few of them are covered.

Insurance is expensive and fly-tipping is hard to prevent, so we need to consider how we can support landowners, as my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) said, because they do us a great service by keeping our land beautiful and fit for tourism. How can we share the costs with the local authority? How could we subsidise the landowners’ insurance? How could we allow the disposal, free of charge, of anything that has been dumped on-site?

Will the Minister consider making sure that the polluter pays, that waste can be tracked, that it is easier to dispose legally and that householders think before they dump so that we can preserve our wonderful countryside? I thank her for her attention to this real issue.

Road Routes to the South-West

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Tuesday 1st March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the upgrading of road routes into the South West.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I am very grateful that this Transport Minister is here today. Looking round the Chamber, I can say with confidence that many hon. Members will agree with me when I say that I do not believe that the south-west has had the greatest bite of the cherry and the greatest funding in relation to roads and infrastructure. I know that my hon. Friend the Minister has travelled through the west country and shares our concerns. All I hope is that he has his chequebook with him this afternoon—we will see the colour of his money later, we hope.

The whole idea of this debate is to ensure that we deal with the roads going through the west country. There are particular roads that hon. Members will want to promote. I will be considering in particular the A303 from Ilminster through to Honiton. I very much welcome what my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Government have put forward for dualling the A303 right the way past Stonehenge—indeed, under Stonehenge—and right the way through to Ilminster, and then dualling the A358 from Ilminster to the M5. My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow) is not here, but she would want me to say how much she welcomes what is happening with the A358. I am not here to complain about any of the roads that the Government have in place; I am here to say that we need a second arterial route into the west country. Just as we need a second railway line, we need a second road. Taking all the traffic on to the M5 at Taunton may not be the best idea if we have a problem on the M5, so having a second arterial route to Exeter, to the airport, is essential.

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes the valid point that we need railways—we need two lines—and we certainly need a very strong route through. Does he agree that the Government should be in favour of that? We need economic growth in the south-west, and without that infrastructure we will not achieve it.

[Neil Parish]

I could not agree more. Doing the figures, we reckon that these infrastructure improvements could deliver about £40 billion to the west country, so we are talking about very big money. There are also a great number of visitors coming to see us, and we want to ensure that they can get there by rail, by road and even on their bicycles if they want to. We want them to come to the west country. There are many hon. Members present from Cornwall. To get to Cornwall, people need to travel through Devon, Somerset and Wiltshire, so that is key.

The west country is definitely a honeypot as far as tourism is concerned. If the A303/A30 through to Honiton and Exeter is dualled virtually all the way, most of the London traffic will come that way. Then there is the north and the northern powerhouse that the Chancellor is so keen to have and that I very much support. When people from the northern powerhouse and the midlands come down, they will naturally come down the M5 and into the west country from that direction. What I am talking about is a natural way of keeping that traffic going and keeping it separated. I go back to the point I made earlier. Let us say that we take all the traffic on to the M5 and there is a problem after Wellington. A caravan may tip over going down the hill, which is not an unforeseen happening. With what I am talking about, we will not only be able to get traffic on to the motorway. If there is a blockage on the motorway, then with the A358 dualled, we will get a lot more traffic back up the A358, going into Honiton. That is where I believe we need to do the second route in and have it dualled all the way through and upgraded through the Blackdown hills.

I know that my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Peter Heaton-Jones) will make a case for upgrading the north Devon link road, and I very much support that. I am not here to destroy other people’s ambitions; we want to ensure that we have as much investment for the west country as we possibly can.

I agree with the Chancellor—the architect of our long-term economic plan. As he rightly says, the south-west has not enjoyed as much attention as the north of England, but that does not excuse any neglect of the south-west. I agree that his long-term economic plan for the south-west is good, but we want to see the colour of his money. In particular, I believe that transforming connections between the south-west and the rest of the country is the right thing to do, as well as improving connections within the south-west. From Somerset to Devon to Dorset, these infrastructure upgrades are essential.

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Parish]

My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. When we improve the major roads, we must ensure that all the links work and get the heavy traffic through. We must ensure that we have good roads for tourists and for those who live in the west country all the time.

Some 58% of people think that road safety is an issue and 53% believe that reliability is an issue, which demonstrates the need for an upgrade due to the public perception of the lack of reliability of the road. That goes back to what I said at the beginning: if people choose a route into the west country and they are absolutely certain they can get along the A303, they will use it; if not, they will go on to the motorway, which will probably be highly congested.

This is not just about public perception. The A303, A30 and A358 have among the highest number of fatalities and personal injury accidents, which underlines that road safety is a clear issue. Of course, road safety is not just an issue along the A303, A30 and A358. I have been working hard with Highways England to come up with a solution for Hunters Lodge junction on the A35, because that route is a real problem. There have been serious accidents and fatalities there next to the turning into Uplyme and Lyme Regis.

[Anne Marie Morris]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is a safety issue regarding the number of potholes? I remember that in a recent very bad winter, the potholes, even on the M5, were very significant. Given the number of roads we have in the west country—certainly in Devon—we need more money not just for new roads, but for ensuring that the existing roads are properly maintained.

[Neil Parish]

In fairness, I think that the Government gave a great deal of money for potholes, and the county councils, particularly Devon County Council, worked very hard on the problem. We have to deal with potholes because they cause accidents and damage cars. It is essential that we get that work done but, in fairness to the Government, they did give something like £8 million to Devon to solve the problem of potholes.

I am dealing with Highways England regarding the A35. We are looking for a solution to slow the traffic and make the Hunters Lodge junction safer—we must deal with that. Upgrading the whole corridor of the A303, A30 and A358 would create 21,400 jobs and boost the local economy by some £41.06 billion—a key delivery for the long-term economic plan for the south-west. Other benefits would include £1.9 billion of transport benefits due to reduced journey times and greater resilience.

Great Western Railway Routes

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Monday 8th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Anne Marie Morris]

My hon. Friend makes a very fair point. It is this Government, and the former coalition Government, who have begun to look at the south-west and to recognise that we have a motorway, the M5, which ends at Exeter, and that the road infrastructure therefore needs sorting. They recognised, too, that broadband needed sorting, which is not something that the Labour Government did much about. They have also recognised that, frankly, our railway needs resolution.

The gross value added of the south-west is 72% of the national average, and if we could just deal with infrastructure issues, we would open up the opportunity and really deliver on the potential by raising the productivity of our area as a whole.

Given that so many colleagues have mentioned Dawlish, let me say a few words about it. This was an extraordinary event. It is, I suppose, a truism that after some of the most disastrous events, we sometimes see some of the best things emerge. It is undoubtedly true that what happened in Dawlish on that fateful day shined a light on the challenge. Rather than running away from it, the Government said, “This is something that matters; we are going to spend the money.”

I remember that storm in February 2014. The Government put in £35 million at the time, and I recall constituents telling me, “This can’t be fixed,” while the engineers were saying, “It can’t be done,” yet Network Rail and the Government told me, “It can; it will be; and it will be soon.” In the end, I think it took about six weeks. It was absolutely phenomenal. Having fixed it, they continued to spend another £6 million sorting out some further individual problems.

Clearly, there is more to be done, but if we look at what happened, we find that we had 300 engineers—that wonderful orange army—who worked solidly pretty much round the clock for two months, sorting out our railway. They were ingenious. Despite what the engineers said, they came up with the idea of using 19 sea containers to provide a temporary sea wall. That was quite an innovative idea. The only challenge they had, once it was put in place, was how they were going to remove it. That turned out to be more of a challenge than putting it in place. Yet 6,000 tonnes of concrete and 150 tonnes of steel later, along with the 25,000 tonnes of the cliff being removed, we are now in a good, resilient position for the railway at Dawlish. We have repaired 600 metres of wall and Dawlish station, including the platform, and we have 700 metres of new track.

Still more work is ongoing. The point made about signalling is absolutely right. More signalling repair and restoration is going on, along with more repairs to the sea wall, whose footpath has been repaired. Riviera terrace, which disappeared overnight, has now been rebuilt. As for Dawlish Warren along the coast, the point has been made that there are some natural climate change erosion problems, but work is already going on to deal with them through beach recharge and trying to realign how the natural coastal flow works.

The point of this debate—other than being able to say, “Well done, Government, you sorted out Dawlish; thank you very much”—is to flag up to everyone the need to do more. There is a bigger picture.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay mentioned, the Peninsula Rail Task Force has been one of the key drivers. It was established to look at a 20-year plan, and I think that it has the support of everybody in the area. It is a great credit to the area and it shows how strongly we all feel about getting this right. If we can get this right, if that taskforce is allowed to complete its job and if we get that 20-year plan and the Government to commit to investment in the south-west, we could have a GVA uplift of £520 million by improving journey times.

It is fascinating that the potential for this area is so clear. Passenger numbers are many times that of any other area. I think they have gone up by 126% over the decade compared to a national increase of 61%. The tourism potential is already well demonstrated. In 2014, over £1 billion was spent by visitors to the south-west. Believe it or not, in 2013, Saudi and Russian visitors spent more in the south-west than in London.

If those who enjoy travelling using the “Lonely Planet” guides have a look, they will find that the south-west is situated in the league tables as the third best place to visit—ahead of Italy and Denmark. So the potential is there, and there is a win-win—not only for the south-west, but for the Government, because we will get productivity up, which is what the Chancellor wants to see above everything.

The Government have already committed £400 million, and we have had 11 individual reports since the Dawlish events, looking at resilience and reliability, faster journey times and sufficient capacity, and five more reports are coming. No one could honestly say that that did not represent a serious commitment to understanding the problem and then getting it right.

A number of crucial issues need to be addressed. I think every Member agrees that the Dawlish coastal route must be a priority, because unless it is running as a “forever, forever” resilient line, shoring up the whole peninsular network, everything else will begin to become secondary.

I take issue with the challenge from the right hon. Member for Exeter, who, like King Canute, seemed to fear that at some point we would all be washed away. I suggest that we should take account of British scientists, who have been incredibly resilient over the years—as, indeed, were those intrepid passengers who, when the line broke down all that time ago, simply got out of one carriage, climbed over the rocks, and got into another carriage to continue their journey. We are a resilient nation, and that line will survive. It too will be resilient, and it is there for the long term. I am sure that the Government will ensure that that can happen. Nothing is impossible; all that is needed is a little imagination and some intelligence.

The coastal route is crucial, but it is in all our interests to look at the whole area, and the east of Exeter project for resilience is equally important. Bridgwater and Taunton are also crucial, as are Yeovil and Castle Cary. They must be on the must-do list.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I agree with my hon. Friend that what was done in Dawlish was absolutely right and that we must keep that railway going. However, we must also consider the line from Bristol to Taunton. We need new stations at Wellington and Cullompton, and we need some metro trains as well. My hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow) cannot be here today because of ill health, but I know that she would agree. We need to increase resilience. We need to bring more trains down existing tracks; we need more stations; and we need to use our tracks much more effectively.

[Anne Marie Morris]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. At present, we have just one spine going along the south of the peninsula. We need another spine going along the north and opening up the Okehampton line. We also need a network rather like a spider’s web. If we are to take full advantage of what is happening to the economy and if productivity is to increase, we need the smaller stations to which my hon. Friend refers. As was pointed out earlier, stations such as Dawlish should not become secondary branch stations. If that happened it would be a disaster, because our economy is set to grow. We need those two spine routes, but we also need the connectivity—the spider’s web—that will enable all our communities to be successful. For rural communities, travel is mission critical.

Shortening journey times is crucial. I welcome the bimodal rolling stock that we shall have in 2018, but, meanwhile, it would be helpful if the Minister told us a little about any cast-offs that might increase the current number. I agree with what has been said about electrification. I think that bimodal rolling stock is the solution, but, as others have said, we need a plan. We need to know that the Government are committed to dealing with more than just one piece of the south-west. The south-west does not stop at Bristol, although—dare I say?—some people seem to think that it does. We also need to consider the calling patterns, and we must give some thought to capacity and quality. The issue of the additional routes is crucial. I have already mentioned the Okehampton route and the concept of a spider’s web.

Let me now mention some keynote events in the far south-west. A geotechnical study, which is due to begin in April 2016, will look specifically at the Dawlish issue, the Teignmouth cliffs, the sea wall, and whether or not there is a need for a barrage out at sea. I am pleased that the study has gone full steam ahead and has not been subject to any cuts. I hope that the Government will undertake to take its findings seriously and to give us a chance to work and lobby hard to find the right solution. I hope that they will commit themselves to spending the money that we need to sort out our resilience once and for all.

Another key event is the 20-year plan report from the Peninsula Rail Task Force. As has already been said, the plan needs to be properly funded, but we hope that there will be some pre-planning in control period 5. Although control period 6 will not begin until 2016, I think that, once we have the report, the Government should say, “Now that the plan is in place, this is what we can do,” so that we are ready to go. We need the Government to invest during the planning phase. I would love CP6 to happen sooner, but it is realistic to assume that, by the time the planning has been completed, it will be 2018. But a commitment to investing in that planning and to the resolution of the problem would be brilliant.

If we invest in the south-west, our gross value added will increase, our productivity will increase—the Chancellor will be very pleased—security will be improved, and we will unlock the marine potential of the area, which is already worth £410 million in GVA. We will also be able to build on the nuclear potential. Currently, the UK nuclear market, much of which is in our part of the world, is worth £50 billion. We will also be able to take advantage of the aerospace advanced engineering, which is already worth £16 billion in our part of the world, and of new data analytics, which are based primarily in Exeter. The super-computer there gives us a potential income of £97 million in the area.

I will end my speech now, because the Minister has heard enough about me, the lady from Dawlish—[Hon. Members: “No, no! More!”] Let me finally ask you for your commitment to the south-west: a commitment to find the funds that we need, to give us the security that we need and to help us deliver the productivity that the Chancellor wants, that we want and that the country needs.

Broadband

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Wednesday 4th March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Neil Parish]

I thank my hon. Friend very much for his comments. He is right. What happened is that the contracts—certainly, the Devon and Somerset contract, which I know the most about—were far too secretive, so it was difficult for people to know exactly who was going to get broadband and who was not and for other companies to come in and provide it. We are doing better, and it is getting better—I am not here just to beat up BT—but we need firm and friendly criticism. We need to say, “Get on with it. You’ve got the contracts to deliver, so let’s have it done. If you are not going to be able to deliver it, let’s know about it, and if we can get in competition, all the better.”

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way; he is being most generous. I wonder whether he shares my concern that, from my latest meeting with BT, I understand that the universal commitment to a minimum of 2 megabits per second now no longer applies and that some local authorities are trading off more fibre for not having to meet that commitment.

[Neil Parish]

My hon. Friend raises an interesting point. Through some fibre optic systems, it is not possible to deliver the minimum 2 megabits, and we should have known about that sooner and action should have been taken sooner. However, I do not want to be too negative this afternoon; that is not in our interest as hon. Members or that of our residents, wherever they are in the country. We have to say to BT, “You have got behind. Now move forward much more quickly.” I think that it will, but its feet need to be held firmly to the fire, so that it feels pain in order to deliver. It is no good saying to someone that 95% of the country has broadband if they live in an area in which 95% of people do not have it. In some areas, the figures are nearly as low as that. In my constituency, the figure is 22% at the moment, and that is over the whole constituency.

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[Neil Parish]

I repeat that I am sure the Minister is aware of that, and I hope that he can answer the hon. Gentleman’s question. He is right to raise that issue. My constituency has many problems not only in the Blackdown hills and on parts of Exmoor, but on the edge of towns as well, so this is not just about rural broadband.

[Anne Marie Morris]

Does my hon. Friend share my further concern that many people in our very rural communities work from home and whether businesses are in the programme is very much in the lap of the gods? As I understand it, in some local authorities, business premises and industrial estates will be connected as part of the programme, and in others, they will not. If the economy and small businesses matter, surely that should not be an option.

[Neil Parish]

My hon. Friend raises an interesting point. Naturally, some areas may have the cables and cabinets, so it is much easier to deliver there. However, if there is a difficult spot to deliver broadband in, with lots of small businesses, we have to find a way to deliver it. This is not just about businesses, but about our residents. Broadband is very much part of our infrastructure, just as railways and roads are. We will be left behind if we are not connected, so that is the purpose of this debate. I thank her for that intervention.

During the inquiry, we heard from BT that it believes that the current target of 95% coverage by 2017 may slip. Given the resources and the free rein that it has been given, I hope that the Minister will impress upon BDUK the need to hold BT’s feet over the hot coals to get the job done. The target for superfast broadband has changed a number of times. The original date for completion was 2012. For our constituents to have confidence that their homes and businesses will get superfast broadband, it is important that the targets for broadband coverage are not changed again. If BT fails to achieve its targets, there should be a mechanism to hold it to account. That is very much what I want to see.

Rural Phone and Broadband Connectivity

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

This is an important topic, and I shall concentrate on rural broadband rather than mobile technology. In Devon, we have challenges with both, but the broadband issue is certainly acute.

It must be said at the outset that the Government are to be congratulated on their ambition to achieve 95% superfast broadband coverage by 2017, which is admirable. The Government are to be congratulated, too, on the level of contribution provided to those in rural areas. Devon has had a generous settlement, so the real challenge has been matching that funding. At the moment, we are pretty much on course to achieve it.

As a number of colleagues have acknowledged, the challenge is in implementation. The first challenge is to manage expectation. The original maps of what was going to get done and when were, frankly, not fit for purpose. The current offering is very much better, and I accept the limitation that a postcode can never entirely clarify exactly where people can and cannot get broadband. The problem is that the consumer who signs up for superfast does not know that. If we cannot do a better job, can we have at the very least a health warning or something put in the contract so that people realise that at the end of the day when they have paid their money, they still may not be able to receive superfast broadband?

My second point is managing the roll-out, which has been mentioned by a number of colleagues. Clearly, to get to this 95% figure, we will have to make sure that the commercial commitment from BT and the subsidised commitment from BDUK are both met. There is a concern that although the match funding projects with BDUK are moving forward at a reasonable pace, the commercial ones are not. This needs to be carefully managed.

Thirdly, dealing with the last 5% is most important. If people live in a rural part of the country, it is critical to take account of it first and foremost rather than last or as an afterthought.

[Neil Parish]

We talk about the 5%, but in many constituencies—mine included—a lot more than 5% are affected. It might be 5% nationally, but it is probably in the order of 65% of my constituency that do not receive superfast broadband. We need to concentrate more on getting this out to the harder-to-reach not spots.

[Anne Marie Morris]

My hon. Friend makes an appropriate point. Although the Government have done a good job looking at the new technologies—I believe they have considered reducing the options to about three—we need more than just “these are the best options”. It needs to be rolled out, and MPs and councils need to be kept well abreast of what the options are. With self-help support for local communities, we should be able to make this happen.

My communities have got together in a number of areas—and dug ditches and done deals with BT—but this is not well publicised. People living in a community who know that superfast is not coming any time soon are likely to have very little support from the Government. There is very little knowledge that would enable people to get on and do it. The Minister very helpfully provided me with the names of some satellite companies in my constituency, one of which has proved to be first-class. However, I am not convinced that I would have been given an answer if I had not asked the question.

We must bear it in mind that the alternatives have cost implications. I believe that there is a system in Wales whereby vouchers are provided for those who have to take the satellite rather than the fibre route. I urge the Government to think carefully about what can be done to help communities that need help now, rather than waiting until everything else is finished.

Funding for Local Authorities

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Thursday 10th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Neil Parish]

I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thought somebody behind me had asked to intervene, hence I turned around. It was not purposely done, I assure you. In the future I will make sure that I do not invite interventions.

We are not asking for a change in the Government deficit reduction strategy. We support the Government in taking tough decisions to tackle the budget deficit inherited from the previous Administration. A quarter of all public expenditure is accounted for by the councils so this must be addressed. In response to my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham, whom I unfortunately invited to intervene, there is some discrepancy in the figures for central London and those for outer London boroughs. The problem with local government formulae is how we invent a system that is fair to all.

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Neil Parish]

Yes, I will.

[Anne Marie Morris]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is an issue in relation to the definition of “rural”? My understanding is that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs uses the rural-50 or the rural-80, whereas in this case the “shire” word has been used, which will inevitably skew the results?

[Neil Parish]

My hon. Friend, who asked to intervene, is right. There is a different definition in DEFRA from the one used in local government, which does not seem to recognise councils that have a large rural population and larger rural parts of their areas. Why is it that the Department for Communities and Local Government does not recognise the DEFRA definition and may come up with another one? Is it to complicate the grant system still further? It would be cynical, would it not, to suggest such a thing.

We are here to press the Secretary of State to make good on the long-standing promise to correct the historic imbalance and give rural local authorities their fair share of central Government funding, in line with the summer consultation. We call on the Government to reduce the urban funding advantage over rural areas incrementally, year on year, to no more than 40% by 2020. Closing the gap between urban and rural can be achieved within the existing resources, within the period to 2020, without placing any individual authority in a worse position than others, and it is one of the recommendations to be made to the Government by the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, of which I am a member, in its report on our inquiry into rural communities.

By reducing urban funding by an extra 0.1% per year of the £24 billion local government funding settlement, the Government can reallocate £30 million to rural authorities and reduce the funding gap from 50% to 40% by 2020. I know that this is a matter of concern across the House. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Sir Nick Harvey) and my hon. Friends representing Worcestershire for helping me to secure the debate today. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), who chairs the rural fair share campaign—

Local Government Finance (Rural Authorities)

Debate between Anne Marie Morris and Neil Parish

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Neil Parish]

My hon. Friend raises an interesting point about how we define the rural population and how we define depravity— [Interruption.] Perhaps I should refer to those who are deprived, rather than to depravity. I still want to make a serious point, because there is a problem with how the statistics are compiled and how judgment is made on rural areas. We in rural areas are all supposed to be wealthy and are asked to pay a great deal more of overall local government spending in our council tax.

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that sometimes the rural authorities that have been the most careful—doing the right thing—are the most penalised? For example, Devon has saved £100 million in the past three years, yet its gross value added has declined over seven years and is now 78% of the UK average.

[Neil Parish]

Again, one of my hon. Friends raises a good point, because this has been going on for a long time. It went on under the previous Government and, dare I say, probably went on slightly under the previous Conservative Government. In those days, I was in local government. Savings were made and we cut our cloth accordingly, but along came the Government saying, “You have been so careful with your spending that you can now cut it some more.” I wonder whether central Government recognise those authorities, such as Devon and others, that have spent money wisely and made savings, yet are asked to make further reductions. The Minister is extremely concerned to make this fair, but we need not only to talk about it, but to sort it out.

Let us consider, for instance, the amount raised in council tax. Rural authorities such as Mid Devon and East Devon, which I represent, will raise in council tax nearly twice as much as, say, a local authority such as Greenwich. Therefore, rural populations are not only not getting a fair share of grant, but have to fund much more of local government spending from council tax.

The Government spend a lot of time talking about the overall spending power of a council, but I would argue that it is how we get to that spending power that matters. If we are asking our local residents and council tax payers to provide much more of that spend via their council tax than those in urban authorities do, we in the countryside are being over-taxed and, dare I say, urban authorities are being slightly under-taxed. We were told last year that that would be put right.