Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Anna Soubry and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 28th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that he addresses his remarks through the Chair, not directly to the Front Bench.

[Anna Soubry]

I am not going to reply to the hon. Gentleman’s intervention because there is nothing for me to reply to, but I am sure we will all be enlightened later.

This is a very serious matter. I object to this Bill, and I will not be voting for it. First, I happen to believe in the free movement of people, and I have yet to hear anybody advance a single argument why the free movement of people has been anything other than good for this country—not one solid argument advanced. Secondly, the Bill does not provide the surety to EU citizens already living in this country that it should. Thirdly—many would say that this is the most important point and main failing of the Bill—it contains Henry VIII powers giving unbelievable, and simply unacceptable, powers and measures to Ministers.

I want to nail a few lies, not told in this place but put about in common parlance. We are told that in June 2016 the will of the people was to reject the free movement of people. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack Brereton) nods, but that is not true. Of those people eligible to vote, 37% voted for us to leave the European Union. Even with my poor maths, I can see that 63% of the people of this country—in other words, the will of the people—was actually for us not to leave the European Union and not for us to abandon free movement. Those are the facts. That is the will of the people—the 63% who we never hear about. Ever since that referendum, we have had put about almost a tyranny of mistruths and myths. It is a shame on every politician that nobody has ever really stood up and spoken the truth of this matter. The majority of people in this country did not vote to leave the European Union, and they did not vote to end free movement. In any event, although 52% of those eligible to vote did vote for us to leave the European Union, one cannot extrapolate from that, on the basis of no evidence at all, that immigration was the overriding feature that led them to do so. In my constituency—the vote that was recorded was actually for the borough, which is larger than the constituency—we reckon that about 52% of those who voted did vote for us to leave.

Certainly in Broxtowe, and I think across the rest of the country, people voted for a variety of reasons. It is true that immigration played an important part. I think that one of the darkest moments in this nation’s history was when Nigel Farage stood up in front of a poster that showed a long line of people who had certain features in common. First, they were mainly men. Secondly, they were fleeing war, rape and terror, seeking refuge in a safe place. Oh yes, they all had brown faces as well, quite remarkably. The other feature of that long line of people, who had the headline above them, “Breaking point”—we all know what the dog whistle was in that headline—was that it had absolutely nothing to do with our membership of the European Union, if for no other reason than that we are of course not a member of Schengen.

Make no mistake about it: fears were undoubtedly fuelled and prejudices were undoubtedly preyed on by the leave campaign wrongly to make a phoney case to the people of this country that somehow by our leaving the European Union there would be a dramatic decrease in the number of migrants in our country. It was a great lie; a great con. The overwhelming majority of people who come to this country come here to work—they are givers, not takers. Therefore, if we want to reduce immigration, there is a very good way to do it—we trash the economy. We make sure that there are fewer jobs for these people to come to our country to fill. [Interruption.] Ah, Brexit, of course: whichever way we cut it, it will mean that our economic prosperity and the number of jobs available will be reduced. Perhaps that is actually the cunning plan.

I get irate with and frankly appalled by Conservative Members who should know better, because the truth and reality is, as I say, that people come here to work. What are hon. Members actually saying when they say, “Reduce the number of migrants.”? Send them home: is that what they are saying? No, of course not, because we need these people to work, not just in the fields of Lincolnshire, in our care homes or in our NHS, but throughout every stratum of industry in every piece of our economy. We need these people. As the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) reminded us, this is a two-way process, because people in our country—my children and the grandchildren I hope to have—benefit, or would have benefited, from the free movement of people, but our country has benefited from immigration for centuries. I am saddened to the bottom of my boots that for so long we have never made the positive case for immigration in our country. Not surprisingly, we have found ourselves in the situation that we are in, where mythology, rhetoric, misinformation and downright lies have been spread by all manner of people to support their own ideological, short-term vision, with absolutely no foundation and at a real cost for our country and its future.

I am appalled and ashamed when I meet people with brown skins who were born and bred in this country—probably some of them more British than I am, because my great-grandfather was an immigrant—and who tell me that since the referendum they have been pointed at by people and asked, “Why haven’t you gone home?” I met one such constituent only the other week, who, when someone said that, turned round and said, “Well, actually I am on my way home, to Nuthall,” which is a place in my constituency. How many of us have heard from friends, from our constituents or from people we just come across with Polish or Slovakian accents who have been asked, “Why are you still here?” or have been spat at on public transport? This is not a country that I recognise. This is not a country that I feel proud to be a member of. I take the view that this is not our country. I also take the view that the majority of people in this country are good and they are tolerant, but too many of them have been told these lies.

It is now absolutely up to each and every one of us to stand up and make the case for immigration and to tell the truth about immigration. As I say, it is not just about the huge positive benefits for our economy—I think the last Treasury analysis showed something in the region of £4 billion extra going into the Treasury coffers—but it is for the culture of this country as well.

It is funny when people talk to their MP about immigration and say, “We’ve got too many of these immigrants,” and we say, “Do you mean the people running the Chinese takeaway, who have been here for decades?” and they say, “Oh no, not them.” We say, “Well, what about the people of Asian origin who are running the corner shop?” and they say, “Oh no, not them”. When we have that discussion and debate with them, we can make the case, because we are inherently a good and tolerant people.

As we have seen in many parts of our country, in any circumstances where there is a sudden influx of people—I am not being rude or disparaging about students—whether it is students or migrant workers, if we do not get the resources right, there will be people who are somewhat pickled off. But that is not a problem of immigration; it is a failure of this place and of local authorities, because it is a failure of resources. Most importantly, it is a failure of people to stand up to dog-whistle politics. I say to my party: if we pass measures like this Bill, the people of this country in time will not forgive us, because this party will become totally unelectable—and rightly so.

Integrated Communities

Debate between Anna Soubry and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Wednesday 14th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call Anna Soubry.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Anna Soubry.

[Anna Soubry]

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker; my apologies to the Secretary of State.

I have just heard that Round Hill Primary School has issued a letter to all its parents because some of its Muslim families have received these horrible and hateful letters. I know that the Secretary of State will join me in expressing his complete condemnation of that. Does he also agree that, although that is hate, a lot of this stems from the twin problems of ignorance and blind prejudice and that we should all—whatever community our lives touch—do everything that we can to get rid of that ignorance and prejudice that, in its extreme form, ends up with people sending horrible, hateful, very seriously criminal and offensive letters?

UK Steel Industry

Debate between Anna Soubry and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Monday 29th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise (Anna Soubry)]

I begin by paying tribute to all those who work in our steel industry. As the Prime Minister describes it, it is indeed a vital British industry. Those workers are without doubt hard working, skilled and dedicated. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Community trade union leader, Roy Rickhuss. It is pleasure to do business with him; we do not always agree, but he undoubtedly leads a fine band of men and women. Of course, we also have to remember and recognise all those who have so unfortunately been made redundant in recent times. Our thoughts are indeed with them, their loves ones and their families.

I pay tribute to all hon. Members of all parties who have spoken in the debate. Let me explain the simple truth, which is a harsh fact and reality, as the hon. Member for Redcar (Anna Turley) knows. I was slightly disappointed in her speech, although it has sometimes been a great pleasure to work with her. She well knows that SSI was losing £600 million in just three years, and we all know the huge scale of Tata’s losses. Those are the harsh realities, and no Government can alter the price of steel. In some sectors of steel, prices have halved over a year, while consumption across the world has yet to reach the levels of 2008.

This is not a Government who have stepped back and not done anything. On the contrary, we have seized this nettle and got on with it. We had a steel summit, and the industry made five specific asks of us—and we have delivered on four of those asks. The fifth, which is rates—[Interruption.] As I was saying, on rates, we hope to be able to deliver in the way that I and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State would like—but we have delivered. It is strange because every time we deliver as we are asked, what do the Opposition do? They just shift the goalposts.

Let us go through the asks and start by looking at procurement. We have changed the rules of procurement, and I was disappointed to hear the hon. Member for Redcar saying that these were only minor and technical changes. Far from it. As my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) said, these are good and valuable changes; they include skills for the supply chain, which are just some of the new factors. Yes, we will evaluate them and make sure that Departments deliver because these are not guidelines—they are mandatory.

The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) says that the Government should do more, but she has not told us whether the SNP in Scotland have changed their procurement rules. We know that they have not. On energy costs, we were asked to take action and we have taken action. We have got compensation and gone further than the ask made of us, and in relation to two of those significant charges, we are going to make sure that these are properly and fully compensated and effectively removed from next year.

Flexibility on the EU emissions directive is another ask on which we have delivered, and then we come to the issue of the dumping of steel by China. It is not just China, if I may say so; it is a number of countries, and that needs to go on the record. I take particular exception to some of the comments made by Labour Members, because in July we voted for the first time for tariffs on wire rod—of some 24% by way of charge. Then we voted again in November.

It is the lesser duty rule that has been so effective. Let me provide an example of the work we have done. On rebar, if we did not have the lesser duty rule, the charge would have been some 66%. In fact, what the industry wanted was a charge of about 20% to 30%. We have worked tirelessly to achieve that. The EU has set the figure at 9% to 13%, and it is this Secretary of State who took that argument and led the charge. We continue to do that with tubes and on cold rolled steel as well. That is the work that this Government have been doing, and I am proud of our record, and we will continue to fight when it comes to tariffs on Chinese and other countries’ steel.

Let me make something clear about the lesser duty rule. What it does is effectively ensure that the right balance is struck so that it is not overly protective, but tariffs are there at the right level to do the right thing by British steel. All that I will say about China and market economy status is that Russia has market economy status, and that has not prevented the European Union from imposing tariffs on it—and rightly so. I suggest that that is another very large red herring tossed in by the Opposition because we have delivered on asks that the industry and the unions have made of us.

What have we done? What has the Secretary of State gone and done? He went to Europe and called an extraordinary meeting of the Competitiveness Council. Far from sitting back in the European Union, we are now taking the lead, and that is why the Competitiveness Council met today. Unfortunately, I have not enough time to go through all the things that have already been achieved because of the action that we have taken in the European Union in order to deliver. For the first time, we are hearing language in the EU that heartens Conservative Members, although I think that Opposition Members simply do not understand it. The statement that was issued today mentions an absolute desire to ensure that competitiveness is at the heart of the future of the steel industry: a desire to reduce regulatory costs, to reduce regulation, and to look at the issues of illegal subsidies and, most important, electricity prices.

Anyone who wants to help out the British steel industry will support Trident, but where was the Leader of the Opposition on Saturday? On a Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament march.

[Dame Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question accordingly put.

Accident and Emergency Waiting Times

Debate between Anna Soubry and Baroness Winterton of Doncaster

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

No.

Already, emergency departments have recovered from the dip in performance over the winter. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Denton and Reddish did not give way, and I am adopting his admirable approach in this debate.

For each of the past five weeks, the four-hour waiting time target has been either reached or exceeded. The average wait in A and E is currently 50 minutes. More importantly, we are making the NHS fit for the future: a future where care is designed and delivered around the specific needs of an individual patient; where care is integrated across primary and secondary care and across health and social care; and where local clinicians, not national politicians, decide what is best for their communities. The Government have taken tough decisions that will create a strong and sustainable NHS, now and for generations to come. The Health and Social Care Act 2012 has finally brought local health and social care communities together to design integrated services around the needs of their patients, building in strength for the future. So if more services are needed outside hospitals, local clinicians working with community partners can make those decisions, without having to wait for a Minister to tell them what to do.

We have not stopped there. We have provided £7.2 billion to local authorities for social care. We have given hospitals the ability to carry over underspends—free to pool their budgets locally to improve care for patients. We have new urgent care boards which will use the savings from the marginal rate emergency tariff to reduce pressure on A and E. The NHS Medical Director, Sir Bruce Keogh, is currently reviewing the provision of urgent and emergency care. This autumn the vulnerable older people’s plan will set out how we will improve primary and out-of-hours services for the frail and the elderly and how we can remove barriers to integrated care. At every step of the way we are putting local doctors and nurses in charge and designing care around the patient.

I shall deal briefly with some of the very good speeches that were made on both sides of the House. We heard first from two former Secretaries of State for Health, the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell). Both were eloquent and informed. I have to say that the speech and the comments of my right hon. Friend found more favour with me. The hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) asked for a grown-up debate, and we had a good contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston). I have addressed the unfortunate remarks that she made, perhaps not having read Hansard, if I may say so.

I turn to other valuable contributions. The right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) made a contribution, as we would expect. Then we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), who spoke briefly about his local experience in his constituency and brought those experiences, rightly, into the debate. He touched on walk-in centres, an issue that was raised by—I nearly said my hon. Friend; I beg his pardon if that is in any way disparaging to him—the right hon. Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron), who beautifully forgot that any decision about the future of any walk-in centre is a local decision. It is for local people—[Interruption.] I am not knocking anybody; I am explaining the facts. I appreciate that the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) has a problem with the facts, but the facts are that these are local decisions made by local communities and local clinicians.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee) gave a thoughtful and challenging speech, and I hope that many will take that away and listen to what he said. I shall deal briefly with the comments of my hon. Friends the Members for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw) and for Stevenage (Stephen McPartland) and the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), who spoke about some of the difficulties that we have with the recruitment of doctors. Departmental officials have met. We know that it is a problem. We have worked with the College of Emergency Medicine and we know that we need to tackle the problem. We did that in 2011 and those issues will in due course be considered. I hope we will see some changes.

The hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh), as ever, championed her local hospital, as I expect her always to do, but she spoke about a lack of public consultation and many of us will take away her wise observations on that. It is important to remind the House of the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood. He, like others in the debate, reported that his constituents get a good service from good staff. All of us should remember that.

To conclude, in challenging circumstances, and with this Government’s support, the people of our NHS are performing admirably. There are over 400,000 more operations now than under Labour. The proportion of cancellations remains unchanged. Fewer than 300 people—276—are waiting more than a year for an operation, compared with 18,000 under the Labour Government. Some 8,500 more clinical staff are working in our NHS, including 5,700 more doctors. MSRA rates have halved. Mixed-sex wards have been practically abolished. We are finally moving towards a paperless NHS by 2018. In addition, in stark contrast to the Labour party’s plans, we now have a protected NHS budget, with real terms—

[Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question accordingly put.