BHS

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Monday 6th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I could not agree with my hon. Friend more, and the high street Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Mr Jones), is nodding furiously in agreement as well. The high street needs to diversify, and I urge all hon. Members to look at the great report written by Bill Grimsey. It was commissioned by the Labour party, and it provides an outstanding forward look into the future of the high street. It is packed full of ideas, some of which are controversial, and it is full of good, sound advice that many a high street and town centre should put into action.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Kilmarnock in my constituency has one of the 16 BHS stores in Scotland. My hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Roger Mullin) referred to the concerns for the workers and for the potential void in our high streets that will need to be filled. In her statement, the Minister said that Jobcentre Plus would help to identify and fill skills gaps and vacancies. However, my local jobcentre and the Department for Work and Pensions have confirmed that jobcentres do not monitor long-term vacancies as a matter of course and would therefore not identify any skills gaps relating to those vacancies. Does she not agree that such monitoring should be a routine measure, in that it would help to create opportunities and fill the gaps?

[Anna Soubry]

This is the sort of conversation that I should have with the hon. Gentleman, because this subject is not within my field expertise or ministerial brief—I will be quite frank about that—but if he is right, that is obviously of concern. I am more than happy to speak to him about the matter, but he is quite right to identify that the main thing for consideration today should be all those who find themselves without a job.

Pubs Code Adjudicator

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Thursday 10th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

I absolutely agree. That is the joy of Paul Newby: not only is he a chartered surveyor, with all that that brings to the job, but he is an experienced arbitrator who has knowledge of both sides. I know that he will be fair. I have complete confidence in him. He is very good news.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

The pubs adjudicator is effectively classed as England-only, but, as with Sunday trading, the proposals on market rent only options could have an effect in Scotland, because pub companies might direct investment towards pubs in England and Wales. The Scottish Government are consulting on the effect of tied pubs in Scotland. Will the Minister ensure that the adjudicator takes cognisance of the consultation in Scotland and the possible effect of the proposals on Scottish pubs and Scotland?

[Anna Soubry]

I do not think there was a question there, but I am sure that we can have a chat about this afterwards and discuss all these things.

Enterprise Bill [Lords]

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alan Brown]

The Secretary of State could give us further devolution for a start. If we had been given more powers in the Scotland Bill, as we wanted, perhaps the Government would need to worry less about us.

Another interesting aspect of what we have seen today is the Government’s last-minute so-called “concessions”, and we are going to get amendments that we do not know about, in the House of Lords. The Government need to make up their mind whether they are in favour of the House of Lords and what is being done in there or not. Only last week they were not happy with what the House of Lords is doing but today we are supposed to vote with the Government because the Lords will save us—I do not know where we are going with that.

[The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise (Anna Soubry)]

You spoke in favour in the Committee—

[Alan Brown]

I did not speak in favour of Sunday trading in Committee, because I did not speak about Sunday trading in Committee, and the record will prove that. My hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) spoke in favour of stronger workers’ rights, and that is also there for the record.

I have mentioned cash retentions, and the Minister’s attitude to dealing with that matter is to acknowledge that it is an issue but to say, “Don’t worry, we have a Government review. We will do the review and then we will implement the measures.” We have to put all the trust in the Minister, but we should consider what the proceedings on Sunday trading show. The Prime Minister said, “We won’t be doing Sunday trading” but it was then proposed, even though it was not in the manifesto, and today we have seen last-minute deals. That proves that we cannot have any trust there, which is why I wanted to have a vote about cash retentions.

Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (Eighth sitting)

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Thursday 25th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David, in this last sitting.

My thoughts are broadly in line with those of the hon. Member for Sefton Central. As we know, this Bill introduces the small business commissioner, which obviously has cross-party support. Amendments have been tabled that we thought might give the office of the small business commissioner more teeth, to allow it to work more efficiently on behalf of those it will represent. Obviously the amendments have not been accepted today, but hopefully the Government will consider that in future.

In thinking about the office of the small business commissioner, it certainly makes sense to think about the office of the Groceries Code Adjudicator. Given that this is a wide-ranging Bill anyway, it makes sense to use it as an opportunity to review the powers and purpose of the GCA and to learn from its short history.

When the GCA was created in 2013, my SNP colleagues gave their support at that time, but my hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) urged the Government to give the GCA enough power to address two key issues that she raised then. First, she highlighted the underlying problems caused by the concentration of power in the grocery supply chain due to the dominance of a handful of large supermarkets. We are well aware of the recent issue of Tesco breaking the code of practice and abusing its market position to prioritise its cash flow and finances over those of their suppliers. It was often excessively late with its payments. Tesco did that, but what was the outcome of the case? Yes, Tesco was named and shamed, which was good—the matter has been highlighted and Tesco has said it will not do it again—but the GCA, Christine Tacon, was unable to impose a fine, because she was only given the power to impose fines in 2015, two years after the establishment of her office.

The second issue that my hon. Friend highlighted was about sustainable food production and the ability of non-direct suppliers to supermarkets to make complaints that the GCA can investigate and follow through on. Recently we have seen evidence that this issue is rearing its head again, with the dairy farmers and the price they receive for milk. A stronger GCA may have been able to intervene and take greater action in support of the farmers or those at the end of a supply chain, who we need to survive in order to get the end product, provide local employment and have a greener product as a result of a smaller carbon footprint. Also, my hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Calum Kerr) has called for the GCA to have greater powers over labelling, to make the supply chain from source to product much clearer.

Overall, the position of the GCA is welcome, but there are still imperfections. The new clause could allow some of them to be smoothed out. I support the new clause and certainly agree with the principle behind it.

[Anna Soubry]

It is obviously a pleasure, Sir David, to serve under your chairmanship in our final sitting.

In short, the Government are already committed to reviewing the GCA after next month. That commitment is in the Groceries Code Adjudicator Act 2013, so this very review is going to happen; it is in statute. Yes, we are looking at the terms of reference. We are preparing them to make sure they include all the things we want the review to look at, so we are looking at consideration of the remit and the powers of the GCA being part of that review.

The review will cover the period up to 31 March, so we will begin the public consultation shortly after that date, as part of the review, providing an opportunity for everyone to input their views. As I say, it is all there already in the 2013 Act. The new clause is just not necessary, because all these points are covered already.

Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (Seventh sitting)

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Thursday 25th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

I thought the hon. Member for Cardiff West set out the logic behind the amendment very well and I agree with all the comments he made. As he said, we have all received representations on this issue; in fact, there was the feel of a 38 Degrees campaign at one point, but that showed the strength of feeling. These are workers who are getting hurt by the law of unintended consequences again.

As has been said, it is middle-income workers—long-serving workers—who are encouraged to stay on site, in a privatised company, to remain there and do this very important work of decommissioning, which obviously has an end date that signifies the end of their work. So it is only right that they should be able to pick up the pension accrual that they expected to get.

If we look back in history, we see that this is about Government striking a commercial deal to privatise a company. The company knows the workload that it is going to get, so it knows its commercial return. Years down the line, these workers should not be the victim of a Government change in policy, when, in fact, the company has managed to pick up the profit it was due over the years. That is very important.

These workers have not had a say in this process. They probably did not want to be privatised in the first place and they should not have their terms and conditions changed further down the line. I certainly support the amendment.

[Anna Soubry]

We need to remind ourselves, of course, that the Government have been clear that ending six-figure payments should apply to all public sector organisations, with few exceptions. Of course, it is the taxpayer who picks up the cost of exit payments and employees who have specialist skills should not automatically be exempt.

I was a little troubled by the contribution from the hon. Member for Wakefield, and not because I disagreed with her for one moment about the dreadful accident the day before yesterday at Didcot and the subsequent fatalities. It is undoubtedly the case that many people do dangerous jobs. I am reminded, of course, of all those who work in the fire and rescue service; we often forget that the fire brigades provide the rescue service as well. They do incredibly dangerous work, not only when they are fighting fires but when they are rescuing people. Although it is extremely rare, if it ever happens, that we make firefighters redundant, nevertheless they are also included in this new provision. I do not think that the fact that someone does a dangerous job should in some way exempt them.

The list of exempt organisations will be set out in the regulations, not in the Bill itself, and of course they will need the approval of both Houses of Parliament. The guidance accompanying the regulations will set down the criteria that Ministers, or those who have been delegated the responsibility, must consider in decisions to relax the cap. In other words, there are exemptions that can be made, but they will be determined in a list that, as I say, will require the approval of both Houses.

Regulations relaxing the cap can apply to individual cases and to groups of individuals, to cater for cases where Ministers may wish to consider organisational cases for relaxing the cap. So there is already a mechanism in place for organisations to be considered for exemption. Therefore, the amendment is unnecessary.

The regulations implementing the cap will be in force from October 2016 at the very earliest. However, as I think I have explained—it has certainly been explained in correspondence, but now I will make it very clear again—Magnox employees who are in the current redundancy programme and due to exit by September 2016 will not—repeat, will not—be caught by the cap, and the cap will not affect the core terms of the pension scheme available to Nuclear Decommissioning Authority staff, in other words Magnox employees, such as the retirement age or the basis on which their pensions accrual rate is set.

The hon. Member for Cardiff West used a particular example, of course, from somebody who had quite properly written in, which is absolutely the right thing to do. In relation to that point, I will say that I have indeed had meetings with MPs. I have not met the unions, not because I have any difficulty in meeting unions, but only because—unfortunately—my diary is pretty hectic.

However, I particularly made the point when I met the MPs, and I have made it clear to the unions by way of a letter, that people should please use their MPs to make full representations to me. As we all know, in this place Members can lobby a Minister in a corridor, or anywhere we bump into each other. That is the quickest and easiest way, but it is not a slight on the unions. I have specifically said to Members of Parliament, “Get back to them, and tell them about our meeting. Use your good self to communicate through.”

Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting)

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Thursday 11th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Alan Brown]

I welcome that intervention, if the Committee agrees that I should talk much longer, but, given the time I will keep my comments brief.

I support the principles of amendments 70 and 73. As well as being equality-based, they tie in with the UK Government’s objective to reduce the welfare bill, so it is important to set targets and engage with the groups that have been mentioned. The Scottish Government have published a modern apprenticeships equalities action plan, which sets targets for black and minority ethnic people and gender balance, as well as for care leavers and people with disabilities. That ties in with the comments made by the hon. Member for Cardiff West. I urge the UK Government to make progress on wider equality.

On the levy and the fund to expand the apprenticeship scheme, we are still awaiting clarification on how the Scottish Government’s share and allocation of the apprenticeship levy will be calculated. For us, that is important going forward so that we can plan how we will support and supplement our existing apprenticeships scheme. I hope the Minister will address that.

[Anna Soubry]

I will deal with the apprenticeship levy when we get to the relevant part of the Bill.

The debate has been very good. The hon. Member for Cardiff West made very good points, and there have been interventions from the hon. Lady—the right hon. Lady; I have to be careful—the Member for Don Valley and from my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds. Important points have been made, and I will take away all that has been said.

It is right that there should be no barriers for anybody with any disability, whether they are somebody who has had the great misfortune to suffer from a cancer that has rendered them in some way disabled, someone with a physical disability, or somebody who has special needs. There should be no barriers for anybody, whatever their background might be, especially those who have not had the kindest and easiest of starts in their lives. We are all agreed about that.

Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Tuesday 9th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Anna Soubry]

The Department of Health, no doubt, has very few contracts because it is not the Department that delivers, but the clinical commissioning groups and hospital trusts. It is important that the Labour party understands how the Government and business work. The Government and the previous Conservative-led Government simplified public sector procurement and abolished the pre-qualification questionnaires for low-value contracts, to back up and assist small businesses and make our lives considerably easier. Those are examples of the real-life things that we have done.

[Alan Brown]

On the previous point about the trickle-down effect, the Scottish Government are trialling a project bank account system for public procurement, whereby payments to the main contractor go into a project bank account and smaller payments that would normally trickle down to the supply chain are ring-fenced for sub-contractors and other people in the supply chain. They get their money right away without going through middle men or the main contractor. Is that something that the UK Government will consider in due course?

[Anna Soubry]

As I said, I am going to try to confine my remarks to the amendments.

Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting)

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Tuesday 9th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Anna Soubry]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. Only yesterday I met somebody with whom I specifically discussed the problem of the retention scheme and the adverse effect it has on small businesses. I hope that this matter would not necessarily need to be pushed to the vote, if only because we are in agreement. We are all going in the right direction, but now is not the time.

[Alan Brown]

I hear what the Minister is saying about not rushing in with a knee-jerk solution, but let us not be kidded: this problem has been around for a long time. It is not that this solution came from nowhere recently; it has been mooted before. Is it not the case that when the Bill was in the other place, an amendment was tabled that effectively put a review on a statutory footing in the Bill, which was not passed? Therefore it seems a bit contradictory that we are now having a review. How can we have any comfort that the review is going to come to something? The opposite of a knee-jerk reaction is a Government review that kicks things into the long grass. I am not saying that the Minister wants to kick it into the long grass, but there is always a risk that things get delayed and delayed. We want to do something now, but how can we get a firm commitment that it is going to happen?

[Alan Brown]

Apologies, Ms Buck.

[Anna Soubry]

I know that we do not know each other well, but the hon. Gentleman can be assured that this Minister gives absolutely her word that this matter is not going to be kicked into any long grass. In fact it is very short grass, which has only just grown, because the review will be completed by March and then recommendations will go out to public consultation. If legislation is required as a result of that consultation, I will be happy to be the Minister to take that through.

I do not wish to chide the hon. Gentleman, but he may not realise that there is a statutory adjudication scheme already in place for disputes in relation to the construction retention problem that we know is there. That system does exist. I know that small businesses often do not want to go to the adjudicator because they are fearful of complaining about a big business and souring relations—they fear that future business relations will be damaged—but it must be said that the system does exist. I wanted to put that on the record.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown]

I echo what has been said. The amendment seems to be a logical extension. Earlier we supported the extension to public bodies, which I thought would strengthen the Bill, and I think this amendment would too. Fellow SMEs should be protected as well. There should not be a loophole. We do not want to get to a stage where there is an argument about what constitutes an SME. All businesses should be treated equally, and this simple amendment would allow that opportunity.

[Anna Soubry]

This is why we have done it in this way. As we see from the clause, the commissioner will handle complaints by small business suppliers about payment-related issues with larger businesses—that is, any medium-sized or large business. The intention of all this legislation is to help small firms where they suffer from the imbalance in bargaining power. I have referred to the words of the noble Lord Mendelsohn about asymmetry. We know that smaller firms, by virtue of their smallness—especially microbusinesses—are at a disadvantage, especially against medium and larger companies. We believe that that is where the real problem is, and that is what we particularly want the small business commissioner to address.

That is not to say that if a small business is in dispute with another small business, it will not have access to all the sorts of dispute mechanism that we have heard about, but we do not believe that is where the real problem is, or the real imbalance of power. That is why we have specified businesses of fewer than 50 employees. They are disadvantaged by their size against medium and larger companies. We know that such businesses often feel unable to challenge contract terms proposed by larger businesses, as I think we have all agreed and mentioned, because it could breach or damage existing or potential commercial relationships with those companies.

Smaller businesses may not have the time, money or expertise to take a legal challenge, which is another consideration. However, as we know, sometimes it is because they are simply frightened that if they take any form of legal action—even something like mediation—it will completely thwart the future commercial relationship between them. They are in a much weaker position by virtue of their size, so that is where we are putting all the emphasis. Their big problem is medium and larger businesses. That is why I resist the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

I think I ought to say to the hon. Gentleman, and to hon. and right hon. Opposition Members, that I am actually enjoying this Committee. I do not mean to be rude to previous Committees, but—[Laughter.] Members know what I mean, though. Some important points have been made by the hon. Member for Sefton Central and I want to be clear that I am listening. It is not that my mind is absolutely set and that I will not budge on anything—although I am not making any promises. What I am saying is that we are setting up a new commissioner, and the hon. Gentleman has made a good point that the Government might look at that if it is not working, so I am in listening mode. However, I am not convinced by these amendments.

The hon. Gentleman talks about the rights of the consumer apropos the rights of a small business owner, and there are arguments about that. I am not saying that it is working just because it is there, but there is quite old legislation—that does not mean to say that it is not good, just because of its age—such as the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, so we have to set this against pre-existing legislation. The reason that legislation is often not relied on is because, as we have already understood, very small businesses are reluctant, for all the reasons we have identified, to use existing legislation, or indeed to sue for a breach of contract. We all know the reasons—because we have already debated them—but there is existing legislation covering unfair terms and conditions, by way of example. I strongly suggest that the amendments are not necessary.

As we discussed earlier, business groups have said that the commissioner’s role should be to focus on the business of late payment and changing the culture. The commissioner absolutely should not alter the fundamental basis of contract law. It is not the role of the small business commissioner to get involved in contractual negotiations, contractual relations and, indeed, changing the law of contract. That is the role of Government. The Bill provides appropriate protection against identifying complainants to third parties, and the Government are already implementing a package of measures to address late payment to small businesses.

[Alan Brown]

On the previous point about it being up to the Government to change the law, amendment 54 would allow the commissioner to apply to a court to declare an unfair contract. That would not interfere with Government law. The commissioner would be making an application to a court of law for the court to decide, which is different from interfering with Government law.

[Anna Soubry]

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, amendment 54 is a very bad idea because the commissioner would be able to undermine the fundamental freedom of two businesses to agree commercial transactions on such terms as they see fit. I strongly resist that amendment.

The commissioner will consider a complaint on the basis of what is fair and reasonable in the particular circumstances, but it is absolutely not the role of the commissioner to begin to interfere with a contractual relationship between two parties, any more than it is for the commissioner in any way to undermine or begin to change contract law, for example. Laws are made in this place, not by a commissioner. Otherwise, we would be getting into the very dangerous territory of a quasi-judicial role, and I hope the hon. Gentleman might trust my admittedly very old knowledge of jurisprudence, certainly in the English and Welsh law, to know that that would be a very bad route to go along.

On amendment 57, if a complainant does not want to be identified to the respondent—[Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Anna Soubry and Alan Brown

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

Absolutely. It is imperative that Administrations right across the United Kingdom work together to reduce the burden of red tape and deregulate as much as they can. We achieved £10 billion of benefit to small businesses and other sectors under the previous Government, and our aim is to achieve another £10 billion of savings for the benefit of everybody in the United Kingdom.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Has the Minister met the open-cast coal industry recently, and if so will she urge the Chancellor to introduce a site-specific coal carbon tax exemption in the July Budget? This move would create 1,000 jobs, provide a net income for the Exchequer and restore open-cast sites in east Ayrshire.

[Anna Soubry]

That is the set of proposals we are considering. May I make it very clear to the hon. Gentleman that I am more than happy to speak to and meet him? If he would like to contact me after this session, we can arrange such a meeting.