Reduction of Plastic Waste in the Marine Environment

Debate between Anna McMorrin and Stephen Kerr

Wednesday 2nd May 2018 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) on securing this important debate. I stand as the Member for Stirling, a landlocked constituency, but, as the right hon. Gentleman said, the issue captures the imagination of constituents and matters a great deal to them.

I wholeheartedly welcome the recent Government announcement of their intention to ban the sale of plastic straws, drink stirrers and plastic-stemmed cotton buds in England. I also welcome the Scottish Government’s consultation and proposal to ban the manufacture and sale of plastic-stemmed cotton buds in Scotland, and there are reports that the Scottish Government might also consider banning plastic straws at the end of 2019. I strongly urge Her Majesty’s Government and the devolved Administrations to work together in the development of those policy instruments. The Welsh Government have already said—

[Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, who was about to turn to the Welsh Government, for giving way. Does he agree that Wales has been leading the way in this area as the third best recycling nation? Furthermore, it is very ambitious with a recycling and zero-waste target by 2050. Of course there is more to do, but Wales is certainly leading the way.

[Stephen Kerr]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. The Welsh Government are absolutely right to say that it is good for us to co-operate across these islands. Just because something is devolved does not mean that we should not work together to get the job done, and I hope that that is what will happen. I hope we will not see a divergence when there can be commonality and collaboration.

Recycling is a feasible solution, and stimulating the development of the market for recycled products is essential. In my constituency of Stirling, Graham’s Dairy is working with its bottle supplier, Nampak—also based in Stirling—to develop milk bottles that use significantly less plastic, yet maintain the same rigidity and security for the milk that we all buy. It uses a significant amount of recycled material in its bottles and that pays dividends in costs and allows its product to be more sustainable into the long term.

The innovations by Nampak to create a milk bottle that uses significantly less plastic is worthy of note, as are attempts to make a plastic that will degrade safely over a shorter period. We should never underestimate the entrepreneurial spirit and inventiveness of British innovators and entrepreneurs, and we should do everything to encourage it.

There is a lot of talk about a deposit scheme, and I am very much behind that principle. Many of us in Scotland mourn the loss of the Barr deposit scheme. Returning your Irn-Bru bottle for money off your next purchase gave the bottles value and meant that consumers were rewarded for returning them and behaving in an environmentally appropriate way—so the cycle of Irn-Bru drinking would continue. This cyclical economy for waste, in which the packaging is returned and reused, is worth aspiring to.

There are lots of details to be worked out. Packaging is complex; the materials involved are sometimes not as simple as they appear to be and can be remarkably varied. Often the complexity of the materials makes recycling almost impossible and certainly makes sorting more difficult. The issue becomes about how to control what we create and what we demand as a society. How do we simplify and amalgamate our product packaging to ensure that it is simple enough to be disposed of? The issue becomes about how we treat the packaging as a part of the supply chain and how we as consumers behave. As the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Douglas Chapman) said, consumers are ahead of the wave in this respect.

I conclude with an apocryphal story from the constituency of the hon. Member for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield). Last week, it was reported that a packet of Golden Wonder crisps from 1967 had been found on a beach in East Lothian. Neil McDonald found the 50-year-old wrapper while cleaning up a beach in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. STV News reported that it had apparently survived half a century beneath the dunes and may have been unearthed by heavy winds hitting the beach. The ready-salted packet of crisps had a promotion on it to enter a competition to win a Triumph estate car. That is how they were able to date the packet of crisps to 1967.

What Mr McDonald said is worth dwelling on in this debate. He was shocked when he discovered the age of the packet and how it had been preserved. He said:

“It was buried under the sand but I could see the corner edging out. I was very surprised, it’s quite frightening how durable these plastics can be. It’s a real indicator that we need to do more to control what goes into the ocean and on the coasts.”

That is incredibly profound and I genuinely believe that by innovating around packaging, both design and material, we can create solutions to the marine plastic challenge, which can then be exported around the world, as has been mentioned by several hon. Members. By innovating to change habits and create new disposal techniques, we can lead the way on systems that can be adopted by the rest of the world.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Anna McMorrin and Stephen Kerr

Report stage: First Day: House of Commons
Tuesday 16th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Anna McMorrin]

That is absolutely the case. It is the case in Scotland and is now the case in Wales. The Welsh and Scottish Governments are clearly arguing this case, and we are now on the brink of a constitutional crisis. This is an issue of trust—trust to exercise devolved powers responsibly, trust to carry out measures that represent the people of Wales and trust to provide meaningful scrutiny of legislation. Why should we in Wales trust a UK Government who are leading us, at any cost, towards such a shambolic, hard Brexit? As it stands, after Brexit, the devolved Governments will be at the mercy of Whitehall, which will have complete control over the time, place, method and future of the powers being repatriated from Brussels. Whitehall may even decide that passing them on is too much trouble, and since the devolved Administrations are given no bargaining powers under the Bill, there will be no opportunities for either Wales or Scotland to demand their return. This is called rolling back the powers of devolution, and we in Wales will not stand for it.

[Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)]

Is the hon. Lady not aware that there are ongoing discussions between the UK Government and the devolved Administrations about this very subject, that there are positive signs that an agreement will be reached—if it has not already been reached—and that therefore she is scaremongering in respect of these powers?

[Anna McMorrin]

I am aware that discussions are taking place, but I am also aware that the UK Government promised to bring forward an amendment at this stage but have not done so. So where is that trust?

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Kerr]

I will give way just one more time because I am sure that Mr Speaker’s patience with me is going to wear thin. In fact, I will take one intervention from the Opposition and one from my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex.

[Anna McMorrin]

The Welsh Government and First Minister deemed it necessary to make a statement today about the lack of joined-up working with the UK Government, which is threatening a constitutional crisis; that is coming from a Labour Government in Wales. The very point is that we are on the brink of a constitutional crisis. We need an amendment. We need the Government to support Labour’s amendment 3.

[Stephen Kerr]

The hon. Lady is describing the attitude of the Welsh Government, which in many respects has been more hawk than dove on these matters. I have no doubt that that is for the Labour party’s political purposes in Wales, as such things are for the SNP in Scotland.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Anna McMorrin and Stephen Kerr

Committee: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Anna McMorrin]

I thank my hon. Friend, and I completely agree.

Wales voted for a devolved Government 20 years ago. I was part of that campaign, and I was proud to see the then UK Labour Government bring that about. We now see a more successful and confident Wales than we did two decades ago, but I fear that we are about to go backwards. The Tories have made it clear that, when it comes to devolution, they just do not get it. Anyone who understands the basics of devolution can tell you that this Bill is taking us backwards. The powers devolved to Wales must stay in Wales.

Clearly, the issue is one of trust—trust to exercise devolved powers responsibly, trust to carry out measures that represent the people of Wales and trust to provide meaningful scrutiny of legislation. However, why should we in Wales trust a UK Government that are leading us to such a shambolic Brexit? As it stands, after Brexit, the devolved Governments will be at the mercy of Whitehall.

[Stephen Kerr]

The hon. Lady’s remarks lead me to conclude that there seems to be no basis, in her mind, on which Wales’s two Governments can get together and make agreements, but there has to be trust. We have to have some basic trust between our levels of Government —otherwise, we will not be able to progress. Surely she is not advocating constitutional confrontation rather than consensus.

[Anna McMorrin]

I think we are seeing the beginnings of a constitutional crisis right now actually. [Interruption.] I will go on to explain if the hon. Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) will let me.

After Brexit, devolved Governments will be at the mercy of Whitehall mandarins with complete control over the time, place, method and future of the repatriation of powers from Brussels. We need only an elementary understanding of how institutions and Governments work to understand that this is leading us to a constitutional crisis.

Devolution is one of our country’s great strengths. The last 20 years have shown devolution to be a success, with our Governments in Wales and Scotland able to forge their own distinctive paths with confidence. Decisions about Wales are best made in Wales by the people of Wales. This is not an argument for nationalism, but one for democracy. Governments formed here in Westminster are not best placed to dictate what happens in Wales.

This Bill lets down the constitutional settlement and the people of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. First, as drafted, clause 11 places a new and significant constraint on the devolution settlement and shifts the power dynamic around setting common UK frameworks firmly in the direction of the UK Government. As yet, the UK Government have provided no information on how these common frameworks will be agreed, the timetable for agreeing them or how Parliament and the devolved legislatures will be involved in the process.

[Stephen Kerr]

I am afraid that what the hon. Lady is saying is just not true. The excellent report produced by the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee reproduces in full the agreement from October —just a couple of months ago—which spells out exactly how these common frameworks will be put together between the Governments. [Interruption.] No, that is what it says in this report.

[Anna McMorrin]

I am afraid the Chair disagreed with the hon. Gentleman. [Interruption.] Well, the hon. Gentleman should speak to the Chair and to other Conservative Members about that.

The situation is further complicated by the fact that, in a number of EU policy areas, the UK Government are in fact acting as the Government of England.