Enterprise Bill [Lords]

Debate between Angela Eagle and Catherine McKinnell

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ms Eagle]

The Opposition are in favour of the apprenticeship levy in principle, but we are taking a very close look at how it will be introduced in practice, and we have an idea that the devil will be in the detail. We will therefore be keeping a close eye on how the levy is introduced and particularly on how it impacts on companies that are charged far more in the apprenticeship levy on their payroll tax than they can actually have in terms of apprentices. What then happens to that money? Can it be driven into the sector’s supply chain, for example? There are issues about how this will impact on public sector spending, and we need to keep an eye on those. As the Opposition, even though we agree in principle with an apprenticeship levy, it is our role to hold this Government—the hon. Gentleman’s Government —to account on the detail as it becomes clear.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is raising some very valid concerns about the Bill and particularly about the apprenticeship levy. A lot of confusion is being expressed out there to Members of the House about how the levy will work. Ultimately, 90% of apprenticeships are provided in small and medium-sized enterprises that will not be paying the levy, and it is not clear how they will receive any support for apprenticeships. Much greater clarity from the Government is required.

[Ms Eagle]

I agree with my hon. Friend about the worries she has raised.

[Ms Eagle]

Well, we are waiting for the Government to come forward with more detail about how the apprenticeship levy will work. The hon. Gentleman loves being in meetings. He told us that earlier in the day. He was waxing lyrical about how excited he was being in vast numbers of meetings every day. He made even the most banal meetings sound fantastically interesting. I am glad that he enjoys his job. The Opposition would certainly be more than happy to embroil him in even more meetings.

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend is doing a marvellous job. The Minister for Skills, who is chuntering from a sedentary position, had the opportunity to provide much greater clarity on this issue in a debate with MPs from the north-east, but he absolutely and categorically failed to do so.

[Ms Eagle]

I think another meeting is in order—

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Eagle]

That is right, but God does move in mysterious ways Her wonders to perform, so perhaps between now and 7 o’clock those with an interest in the matter will realise what is going to be in the Bill, or the Secretary of State might even do the decent thing and publish the paper and the changes that he is proposing so that we can have a look at it before all of us go through the Lobby tonight.

Let me remind the House that this is a policy that was not in the Conservative manifesto, which the Government tried suddenly to crow-bar into the Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill, but which they wisely abandoned at the last minute in the face of widespread opposition, not least from their own Back Benchers. The current arrangements were legislated for separately in a stand-alone Bill which received Royal Assent on 5 July 1994. I should know, because I served on the Bill Committee. The current arrangements work well and mean that retailers can trade, customers can shop, and shop workers can spend time with their families on Sundays.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I apologise for interrupting my hon. Friend’s flow. Does she share my concern that the Government’s approach appears to be either underhand or incompetent? Will she seek reassurance from the Government that it is neither of those?

[Ms Eagle]

The Government have spoken. They keep acting as though we know what the changes are, when we do not. They have chosen not to give us any warning that they were going to be in the Bill, not even a private tip-off, so we have to react completely in the dark. Other than what was said from the Dispatch Box, we have no idea what will be in the Bill. [Interruption.] The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise chunters away from the Front Bench, saying that these changes are minor, but we do not know whether they are minor until she publishes them and we read them. If she would like to publish them now, we can have a five-minute break, go out and read them and check whether she is telling us the truth.