Select Committee on Governance of the House

Angela Eagle Excerpts

Wednesday 10th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

I rise to support the motion in the name of the hon. Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) and proposed for debate this evening by the Backbench Business Committee.

After concerns from Members about the recruitment of a new Clerk and chief executive, this motion allows us to move forward swiftly in pursuit of a solution that can unite the House.

Before I address the content of the motion in detail, I would first like to refer briefly to the events that have led us here. I was one of six members of the panel that reached a consensus agreement and suggested a name to the Prime Minister for recommendation to Her Majesty the Queen. I think it would be invidious to say the least if I were to go into details of what happened during that process. Suffice it to say that we spent more than 20 hours interviewing a wide range of candidates, judging them against a clear job description, through a fair and robust process. This was the first time that recruitment of the Clerk has been done through a completely open process of the kind we would expect for a senior appointment in any other profession.

[Meg Hillier]

I welcome the approach of having an open process. Does my hon. Friend regret that the House has used its privilege to name candidates in the recruitment process in the way it has?

[Ms Eagle]

We are not making it easy for any future outside candidate to apply for a job in this place—candidates have been traduced across the airwaves when they cannot reply. Hon. Members on both sides of the House should think carefully about that.

[Mr David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD)]

I am trying to understand the precise process, particularly in the light of what the former Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), has just said. Did the panel agree before the interview process the job description it judged against, or was that presented as a fait accompli?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Eagle]

My memory is that we agreed it. It is important that I do not go into too much detail on the Floor of the House, and essentially in public, about what happened in a process that resulted in agreement. As I have said, I am happy that the process was open and fair, and that it came to a conclusion by consensus.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

On the point about a true and open process, does the hon. Lady believe that, with the information that has come to light subsequently, the process cannot be seen to have been an open and visible one?

[Ms Eagle]

The members of the commission spent 20 hours of their lives conducting a process along the lines of all other processes that go on outside the House for appointing senior posts. We cannot be criticised for not knowing something that came to light subsequently, whether it is relevant or not.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Eagle]

I am happy to give way, but I do not want to take too much of the House’s time talking about things that are not relevant to the motion.

[Charlie Elphicke]

I want to move on to governance rather than personalities. The hon. Lady says the decision was arrived at by consensus, and yet it has caused massive disunity in the House. What does that say about the contact and in-touchness of those involved in the process with the wider House of Commons, and what does it say about House of Commons governance and accountability?

[Ms Eagle]

The decision has caused worries for some people, but I do not think it has caused the amount of controversy the hon. Gentleman suggests. There are people on both sides of the argument. He should not imagine that, when the panel made the decision, we were being out of touch. We were making an honest judgment after being presented with candidates in an open and transparent way. He might not agree with the decision, but the process was open and transparent, and in line with ordinary procedure for the appointment of such posts anywhere but the House.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will my hon. Friend accept congratulations from many hon. Members on the sterling work she and the group did in conducting the process? As she has said, it took more than 20 hours. She will be aware that some in the House—mainly Government Members—have a secret agenda, which is usually, “Let’s have a go at the Speaker.” We know what has been going on and we know where it comes from.

[Ms Eagle]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comment. Many intertwining things have brought us to this point. I would not like to traduce the motivations of anybody who contributes to the debate, but the motivations of those who were on the commission should not be traduced either. It is important that we accept that.

I should like to get back to the terms of the motion. As I said, the process was in line with the kind of process that one would expect for any other senior appointment outside this place. In the recent past, the appointment was at the discretion of the Speaker, who was handed two names by the retiring Clerk. Even if some Members objected to the result of the process, I think it is welcome that the tradition of the Speaker getting to choose between two names handed to him by the predecessor Clerk has been left behind and that the House is trying finally to bring its recruitment processes into the 21st century.

Although I do not want to comment any further on the proceedings of the panel, I understand the concern of some Members at the outcome and I welcome today’s motion. The worries have centred around the fact that despite being eminently qualified as a chief executive, the successful candidate is not an expert on parliamentary procedure. However, the fact is that an expert on parliamentary procedure who has spent their entire working life in our excellent Clerk’s department is unlikely to be able to demonstrate the requirements needed to be an outstanding chief executive. That is why the Hansard Society, through its Puttnam commission in 2005, advocated splitting the Clerk and chief executive roles and why it has advocated governance reforms since.

It is clear that we have a tension at the heart of the role of Clerk and chief executive and considering some of the imminent changes facing the House Administration, I believe that it is evident that that tension is likely to get worse and to do so quite quickly. The restoration and renewal project could mean Members having to decant this building for an entire Parliament or longer. However it is accomplished, it will be complex and extremely demanding, exposing us to huge practical challenges and to great reputational risk. I might add that I firmly believe that it might also be a great opportunity to take a new look at how Parliament operates and communicates with the people it is here to serve.

A programme of digital transformation has already been embarked on, with the twin aims of radically improving Parliament’s ability to work and communicate and achieving a step change in our efficiency. There is the Speaker’s Commission on Digital Democracy, which is exploring the potential offered by digital communications to enhance our interaction with our constituents. It often seems to me that our IT equipment actively stands in the way of our doing our jobs effectively when it should be facilitating greater communication in a secure and robust way.

There is the challenge of the looming general election —we all have our own challenges coming up with that.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Eagle]

No.

The general election will mean managing the end of the first ever fixed-term Parliament and the first coalition since the second world war against the backdrop of the very volatile times in which we are living. More than 2,000 staff require management and Parliament handles a budget of more than £200 million. I believe that the smooth operation of change management in these vital areas is just as important in the delivery of parliamentary services as the crucial advice we receive from our Clerks in their important interpretation of “Erskine May” and our procedures. In 2007, as the former Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), said, the Tebbit report considered and dismissed the idea of the separation of the role of Clerk and chief executive. However, the report said that Clerks hoping to be appointed chief executive should in future have “senior management experience” and that should mean

“having spent a period outside the Clerk's Department and preferably beyond the confines of Westminster”.

[Andrew Bridgen]

Will the hon. Lady give way on that point?

[Ms Eagle]

No.

That has not happened, but the challenges facing the holder of the Clerk and chief executive’s job have undoubtedly multiplied. It now makes sense, therefore, to revisit the original consideration of the report and whether we should split the role, which is why I welcome the motion before us this evening and urge the House to support it.