Junior Doctors: Industrial Action

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Ben Gummer

Thursday 24th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ben Gummer]

We are increasing the number of junior doctors and the number of other doctors, consultants and nurses over the next five year years in order to meet the increasing challenges facing our national health service.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

The Minister said that he had reached agreement on 90% of matters, including some that were not on the table, and he is to be warmly congratulated on that. Perhaps he has a future at ACAS. What my constituents would like, however, is for him to go back to negotiate the other 10%. Is it not the case that the junior doctors want a resolution and have said that they will negotiate? The Minister should square the circle: he says they will not negotiate; they say they will. Will he give it one more chance?

[Ben Gummer]

The credit that the hon. Gentleman has kindly given me is due to Sir David Dalton, who achieved the 90% agreement on the contract. As for the remaining 10%, his judgment was that the junior doctors committee would refuse to negotiate. At that point, the Government had to make a decision about whether to proceed or to cave in. We decided to proceed, which is why we will implement the contract later this year.

BMA (Contract Negotiations)

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Ben Gummer

Monday 21st March 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Ben Gummer)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David, and it has been a pleasure to hear some of the contributions to the debate, which have included measured speeches, as ever, by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), and the Scottish National party spokesperson, the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford). However, it disappoints me as much as it does many other hon. Members that we need to be here today. We would all have wanted the issue to be concluded some time ago. I hope that in the next few minutes I can describe why we are in this position and what we plan to do about it.

I will start by discussing something that the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) touched on, because I know he wants to leave early. I want to make these comments before he does. We are all here because we are interested in the future of the NHS, but, among various silly outbursts and fits of laughter, he described the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Morley and Outwood (Andrea Jenkyns) as tragic. There is indeed tragedy behind my hon. Friend’s interest in patient safety, and that is that her father died as a result of a failure of patient safety. It is no coincidence that she is here today and that she cares so much about this important issue. It behoves hon. Members, and especially the hon. Gentleman, who is barely able to contain himself on matters of this kind, to pay a little attention to the motivations of Members, on whichever side of the House they sit, and the reasons why they feel strongly about the matter. That includes the Secretary of State, who considers it to be a question of patient safety through and through. A portion of that is about the delivery of seven-day services, but more broadly, to reflect on the wise words of the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire, it is about the fact that tired doctors who work bad rotas are dangerous. That is at the core of our reasons for wanting to change the contract.

It was not just the present Government who decided that it would be right to change the contract. It was the British Medical Association that confirmed, in 2008, that the contract was not fit for purpose, just a few years after the Labour party had introduced it.

[Andy Slaughter]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Ben Gummer]

I will in a second; I will just answer this point.

From that point, as many Members have pointed out, considerable progress was made through the negotiations that we had under ACAS from December 2015 to February 2016—far more progress than in the previous negotiating period, partly because the BMA knew that an imposition would have to come if there could be no agreement. As the shadow Minister will understand, at some point an employer needs to move both on issues where there is agreement and on those where there might not be.

The fact that the Secretary of State chose Sir David Dalton to lead negotiations undermines the argument that somehow he was not trying to come to a negotiated settlement. He asked one of the very best chief executives in the NHS to lead the negotiations on his behalf. Even Sir David Dalton was unable to come to a final conclusion of the negotiations with the BMA, because the BMA refused to discuss the last remaining substantive issue—the rates of Saturday pay.

Herein lies the rub: in the heads of terms of the talks it began through ACAS, the BMA had agreed to discuss Saturday pay rates, yet it withdrew that agreement at the end. Sir David Dalton was therefore forced to write to the Secretary of State saying that in his judgment, there was no prospect of agreement on the remaining matters because the BMA was refusing to discuss them. When the Secretary of State or any negotiator has no counterparty with whom to negotiate, it is impossible to negotiate.

Far from the title of the e-petition, which suggests that the Secretary of State has somehow been unwilling, he has been negotiating in good faith all through the period since 2013. It was the BMA, right at the last minute and at previous moments that has refused to do that. I myself have called on it a number of times, both personally and in public, to come back to the negotiating table.

[Andy Slaughter]

Will the Minister give way?

[Ben Gummer]

I will not, because I know that the hon. Gentleman needs to go. I said that I would give way to the shadow Minister.

NHS Trusts: Finances

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Ben Gummer

Monday 1st February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ben Gummer]

There are many examples of success in the NHS, and hospitals, CCGs and community health organisations are delivering exceptional care within existing budgets. We must ensure that we spread that practice and approach to care across the NHS. Some parts of the NHS are not doing that, but with our ability to level up and “universalise the best”, as Bevan coined it, we will ensure that everyone gets the level of care that those in the best areas of the NHS already receive.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

Last week Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust reported a £25 million deficit, and announced a non-clinical vacancy freeze on top of 10% vacancy rates, and above-target use of agency staff. Its solution was to pay its chief executive £350,000 last year to oversee the downsizing of the major local hospital, Charing Cross. What is that other than a short-sighted and dangerous attempt to undermine the NHS?

[Ben Gummer]

Given the hon. Gentleman’s record of statements given to his constituents, whether on housing or hospitals, I would prefer very much comments from the clinicians running Imperial College NHS Healthcare Trust, than I do his own comments about this.

Contaminated Blood

Debate between Andy Slaughter and Ben Gummer

Monday 20th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ben Gummer]

I can reassure my hon. Friend that treatments, including new treatments, will be provided on the basis of need, but again, it will be for NHS England to determine how they are released to the service. I know that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Life Sciences will give my hon. Friend further details if he requires them.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

Contrary to the Minister’s assertion, there is a lack of urgency, which is shown by the fact that there was no statement by the Prime Minister, as had been promised. We know the defects of the current schemes—they are not redeemable—and we know what needs to be done. Will the Minister confirm what I think he said, namely that there will be a final assessment by next March? Will he also guarantee that the money will be available, and will not be ring-fenced or offset against other departmental spending?

[Ben Gummer]

What I have said, very clearly, is that we will launch a consultation in the autumn, and that we hope it will be as short as possible so that we can arrive at a settlement as rapidly as possible. I also hope that it will be in the tightest possible timeframe, as the hon. Gentleman suggests.

As for the issue of money, I know that the hon. Gentleman may not understand this, but the money has to come from somewhere, and it will come from the health budget, which is where it is designated to derive from.