Parliamentary Sovereignty and EU Renegotiations

Debate between Andrew Turner and John Baron

Thursday 4th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Baron]

I very much agree with the hon. Lady. There is a democratic deficit in the EU. It is no coincidence that the European Parliament, after the most recent elections, is probably the most Eurosceptic European Parliament in the EU’s history. There is a connection there and the EU needs to recognise that it needs to put that democratic deficit right.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that even elected people do not get thrown out? We cannot get rid of Dan Hannan, for example, because he is No. 1 of 10 or 11 Members of the European Parliament.

[Mr Baron]

There are many flaws in the system. The peoples of Europe—although one can generalise too much in this respect—are asking more and more questions as the system fails to deliver, in particular on the economic front. Mass unemployment is causing great hardship in many countries and the EU is failing to deliver.

High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill

Debate between Andrew Turner and John Baron

Monday 28th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to highlight some of my concerns over HS2. There are a number of issues that I believe make the proposal untenable. I will try to cover them as briefly as I can.

First, we are told that HS2 will produce a good return on investment. If that is really the case, why are private companies not tumbling over themselves to fund the project, instead of using taxpayers’ money, which, as we know, is in short supply? In 1844, over 3,500 miles of rail track were sanctioned. For various reasons, the cost was in the region of £40,000 per mile. Those lines were built entirely by private sector enterprise. Why is that approach not appropriate this time?

My second concern is that we are proposing to build a brand new railway at such great expense. Why are we not looking to increase capacity on existing rail lines and routes? The Government say it is no longer about high speed, so I am not entirely clear what it is all about.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

On expense, does my hon. Friend agree that at a time when we are struggling with the deficit and yet still adding to our national debt, the last thing we need is a £50 billion white elephant?

[Mr Turner]

My hon. Friend makes that point very clearly, and I agree with him.

The Great Central Railway was opened in 1899. As we have heard from the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane), its purpose was to link the big northern cities with London with the fewest possible stops—in other words, fast links between London and the north. It was the last complete mainline railway built in Britain until HS1. If that sounds familiar, the route is still there through Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham and, as he mentioned, Manchester.

My third concern is that this does not benefit the whole country despite the tax bill funding it being spread across the whole UK. There is no benefit for the west country, for south and mid-Wales, or even for the south of England. There is no benefit for East Anglia or for the east of the country up to Doncaster.

Arms to Syria

Debate between Andrew Turner and John Baron

Thursday 11th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Baron]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. One of the problems with this conflict is that there are extremists on both sides. On the rebel side, for example, we know that al-Nusra has close links with jihadist and extremist groups including al-Qaeda. The Government have not been able to answer the question about how they would track and trace weapons to ensure that they did not fall into the wrong hands. We need to remember that in that part of the world weapons are tradable assets. Very little escapes the bazaar. Given that the situation on the ground is fast moving and fluid, it would be nigh-on impossible to ensure that such arms did not fall into the wrong hands.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that things have moved on a great deal since we voted for or against the intervention in Iraq? That was a mess, and many people are now sorry that they voted as they did. It is important that we should be able to work out what is happening and make the decision ourselves. This should not be a decision for the Government.

[Mr Baron]

I take on board what my hon. Friend has said, and I agree with him in large part. There is a deficit of trust on these issues, partly courtesy of the Iraq decision but also because of Afghanistan. That is why it is even more important for Parliament to express its view. We should not be bounced into a decision simply because we are heading into a recess.

We need to learn from our mistakes in other respects as well. For example, we armed the mujaheddin in the 1980s, and we armed Saddam Hussein when he attacked Iran. Some of those weapons were eventually pointed against us. Many of the weapons supplied to Libya have ended up in Syria and northern Mali. We have made mistakes on this front, and we must learn from them.