National Lottery Reform

Andrew Smith Excerpts

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Westminster Hall

[John Penrose]

I am delighted to be able to help the right hon. Gentleman out here, and I hope to provide the reassurance that he is seeking.

We will be phasing in the share changes. Currently, they start from a 16.66% share, and we will raise them to 20% each over the course of the next two years. The right hon. Gentleman will have noticed that in two years the Olympic top slice of lottery funding will come to an end. Therefore, although Big’s share will fall from 50% today to 40% in two years’ time, it will be a smaller slice of a much larger pie, because the Olympic funds will then be part of the whole. As a result, if he does the calculations, he should see a steady increase in cash terms for Big as well as for the other good causes. That is certainly shown by all the figures that I have seen. That outcome is important, which is why we have phased the changes to match the end of the Olympic funding.

[Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab)]

Going back to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly), if arts bodies suffer a loss of grant as a consequence of the cuts by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, will they be able to apply to the lottery to make good that loss?

[John Penrose]

The short answer to the right hon. Gentleman is that anyone is free to apply, but the real question is whether that application is successful. The test that I expect any lottery grant-giving operation would apply is whether the application matches its terms and conditions and fits the limitations that it can impose on funding. I expect that a fund would look very carefully at a straight one-for-one comparison, because it would be very concerned about breaching additionality. I know that lottery fund grant distributors are alive to that issue.

I go back to the response that I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) a little while ago—because such operations are at arm’s length, it is rather difficult for any Minister to predict or suggest too strongly what they will do. The decision, after all, is theirs, but I imagine that they would look at such issues tremendously closely.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Andrew Smith]

My right hon. Friend brings enormous expertise and experience to this debate. In relation to shaping the balance of national lottery allocations for the future, what does he think of the proposition that the views of the people who play the lottery, whose money ultimately funds those projects, should be taken more widely into account when deciding where the balance of priorities should be?

[Alun Michael]

There are two points to make, I think. First, those who play the lottery are contributing and should have something to say. Secondly, many of them are from more deprived communities and are less well off. I spoke to someone about the fact that many of those who play the lottery cannot afford to do so. A friend of mine who was representing a deprived community in my constituency made a good point when he said that the more deprived someone is, the more difficult it is to make ends meet and to provide for their families, so the more they need something to provide hope. The gamble and the likelihood of a return may not make sense, but they are buying a dream, not a ticket. If the way people buy that dream leads to a contribution that is likely to come back to their community and help people in similar situations, surely that principle should be pursued. That is a good way of introducing a point that I want to emphasise: a needs-based approach is important, and that has been the approach adopted by the Big Lottery Fund. I hope that it will continue.

The Minister made the point that we will be talking about the funds that go into the Big Lottery Fund being a smaller proportion of a larger sum, so there will at least be an increase in money terms, but I would prefer a greater proportion of increased funds to go to areas and communities with the greatest needs. That is the essence of a needs-based approach. It is not impossible to achieve it while pursuing the Minister’s objectives. For example, it might be a question of emphasising the importance of a needs-based approach to the other lottery funds. There is more than one way of achieving a specific outcome, but I hope that the Minister will undertake today to consider how best the needs-based approach can be protected within the new arrangements for the Big Lottery Fund, and perhaps the other funds.

The Big Lottery Fund formula for allocating funding within the United Kingdom—I believe that this applies to Scotland and Northern Ireland as well as Wales—is based on need rather than population. Wales is likely to be worse off from any change in shares, unless that point is taken on board. The Minister has a pleasantly listening visage this afternoon, so I hope that he will take my points into account.

We need a larger proportion of a larger sum to go to the places in greatest need, but that does not necessarily apply only to the crude figures of the distribution between different lottery funds. The Big Lottery Fund distributes its money to charities, health, education and the environment, and its mission is to support people and communities in the most need. That is why I am concerned about the consultation. The Minister seems to have someone sitting behind him who specialises in shaking her head, but I have given a factual description of how the Big Lottery Fund works.