Data Transparency (Banking)

Debate between Andrew Love and Andrea Leadsom

Thursday 3rd July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrea Leadsom)]

First, I congratulate the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr Love) on securing this debate and presenting his case so eloquently. He was, of course, one of my partners in crime on the Treasury Committee, during which time together we held the Government to account. Therefore, given that this is our second debate together in as many months, I am very glad that he is doing just as good a job of holding the Government to account now that I am not on the Treasury Committee. I am grateful to him for that. The other thing that he and I share is a huge enthusiasm for greater competition, greater transparency and far greater choice and diversity of financial services for businesses and customers. We have worked together on that agenda for a very long time.

Before I get on to the hon. Gentleman’s specific points, I want to highlight the many measures that the Government are taking to try to improve that competition, choice and diversity. As he will know, we are currently consulting on whether to make the large banks provide referrals to challenger banks when they do not wish to lend to a small or medium-sized business. We are already looking at legislating through the small business Bill to require banks to share credit histories with credit reference agencies so that challenger banks with permission can look at other areas for lending. We are supporting peer-to-peer funding and crowdfunding.

Last week, in our bid to support the credit union movement, and quite apart from the funding from the Department for Work and Pensions, we put out a call for evidence to look at the future of the credit union movement and what is wanted from communities and the credit unions themselves. The Government therefore have a big agenda to promote precisely the transparency and competition on which the hon. Gentleman and I have worked very hard over the past few years.

The hon. Gentleman has raised a number of specific issues, but before turning to them I would like to provide a brief reminder of how far along we are with the work on postcode lending data and why we believe it is so important. As the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, the Government secured an agreement with the major banks last July to publish lending data across nearly 10,000 postcodes. It is worth reminding hon. Members that the measure has made the British banking industry into one of the most transparent in the world.

As the hon. Gentleman well knows, improving competition in banking is a No. 1 priority for many jurisdictions, not least the UK. The publication of the data will therefore play a big role in improving competition by enabling challenger banks, smaller building societies, credit unions and CDFIs to identify and move into areas that are not currently served by the larger banks. It will also mean that our economy is better served by their offering finance to customers who are crying out for support to help their business grow. I certainly believe that the project is vital, and that it will play a key role in improving lending in areas where it is currently lacking. I am sure that he agrees with that overarching sentiment.

I turn now to the specific points made by the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas). On the comments of the hon. Member for Edmonton about expanding coverage across institutions, the Government made a clear commitment during the passage of the Financial Services Bill that the data would initially involve the lending of the seven major lenders. That decision was taken because of their dominance in the market. The Government also made it very clear that we intend to discuss with interested peers and the industry exactly how the data could be extended to cover other types of institutions, including banks, building societies, credit unions and other finance providers. It is, however, important to bear in mind that the cost of such a level of disclosure, particularly for smaller institutions, might be prohibitive and might increase the costs they pass on to their customers. We therefore want to consider the matter very carefully before we act.

With regard to expanding coverage across the country, the hon. Member for Edmonton will know that the first dataset did not include lending in Northern Ireland, due to the differing banking markets and reporting requirements for Northern Ireland banks. However, I assure him that the Government will ensure that any future extension includes the main Northern Ireland banks, and I confirm that the Government, with the British Bankers Association, are discussing with the Northern Ireland banks how the agreement might be extended to them.

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will agree that it is important that due time is given for discussions to ensure that any agreement is proportionate and that data provided will be beneficial. I am also sure that he will welcome the news that, just yesterday, the BBA published composite bank lending data for Northern Ireland businesses and households for the first time. The Northern Ireland data have been sought after for some time, and their publication has been encouraged and helped by the joint ministerial taskforce on banking and access to finance.

The hon. Gentleman suggested that the framework in question should be managed by an independent organisation, such as the Office for National Statistics, but the BBA already collects and publishes a range of comprehensive data on lending to individuals, households and businesses, so it is very well positioned to agree the necessary standards on data release and accessibility. However, as he would expect, the Government will keep the situation under review.

[Mr Love]

The reality is that data provided through the BBA are not entirely consistent. Are Ministers discussing with the banks and the BBA how to ensure consistency in the provision of data through the voluntary agreement?

[Andrea Leadsom]

Yes, the Government are keeping the matter under review, and we will discuss exactly that with the BBA.

The hon. Gentleman expressed concern that postcode lending data do not give a full picture of lending in the UK, and suggested that a wider set of lenders and products might be included. For example, he noted that SME figures represent about 60% of the national market, covering loans and overdrafts only. Other forms of finance, such as business credit cards and asset-based finance, are not included at this stage. He is therefore right that it is important for public data to be as broad as possible, but as I have mentioned, we must bear in mind that, particularly for smaller institutions, the cost of making such disclosure might be prohibitive and might increase the costs passed on to customers and businesses. It is important to see postcode data as part of a wide range of data to which the Government, banks and businesses have access, on top of data from the Bank of England, the BBA and other surveys.

Those other surveys, including the SME Finance Monitor and the new Business Banking Insight, can also be of real importance. The latter, which the Government announced in the Budget and I launched just over a month ago, is a really useful tool for UK businesses, as it lets them see which banks are in a good place to offer them the products and services they need at the right prices and will give them a decent service in their area and their particular market.

Finally, the hon. Gentleman asked what use the Government are making of the data on bank lending and whether we have a clear strategy for tackling any credit deserts in UK communities; the hon. Member for Harrow West also raised that issue. I reassure them both that the Government regularly interrogate these data as part of our wider analysis of bank lending conditions across the UK. However, the full usefulness of the data will only really be known once we have been able to identify longer-term series and trends.

At the current time, the data do not appear to show any regional imbalances, but we will continue to monitor that. As the dataset grows and trends become more readily identifiable, we plan to make increasing use of the data. We will of course take action on the issue if we think it is needed.

[Andrea Leadsom]

As I have said, at the current time the data do not seem to show any major regional imbalances, but my officials, the Bank of England, the BBA and the banks themselves are looking at the data. If the hon. Gentleman wants to write to me on a specific point where he believes that there may be evidence of a distinct imbalance I would be delighted to look into it and respond to him. We will continue to monitor the data and ensure that as trends become more identifiable we can make more use of the data to assess potential areas where there is a lack of banking facilities.

In conclusion—

[Mr Love]

Will the Minister give way?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I will give way one last time.

[Mr Love]

I apologise—when the Minister said, “In conclusion,” I thought I had missed my opportunity. The Financial Conduct Authority has an objective of looking at particular areas, specifically for the purpose of researching into credit deserts. Have Treasury Ministers had any discussions with the FCA on that?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that officials meet the FCA on a regular basis, as do I. If it will make him feel better, I shall make a point of raising that issue with the FCA the next time we meet to ensure that it is looking at it carefully.

I thank the hon. Members for Edmonton and for Harrow West again for raising this important issue. As they know—the hon. Member for Edmonton certainly knows this—transparency and competition are central to the Government’s work on financial services. My interest lies very much in that area, so the hon. Member for Edmonton and I are aligned on that. Although I am sorry that I cannot give him the answers that he wants right now, because the new policy has not been in place for long and we do not have enough material as yet and because of our natural reticence to increase the costs for smaller institutions in the early days, I hope that I have reassured him that we will continue to monitor the data and look for ways to improve the service. Ultimately, I am confident that we will end up with a banking system that better serves people and businesses up and down the country.

Question put and agreed to.

Loan Protection Gap

Debate between Andrew Love and Andrea Leadsom

Tuesday 6th May 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrea Leadsom)]

Thank you for calling me to speak, Mrs Riordan. It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, particularly as this is my first outing as a Minister in Westminster Hall.

I am very grateful to the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr Love), a highly esteemed former colleague of mine on the Treasury Committee, for securing this debate on an incredibly important subject, which, as he well knows, the Treasury Committee has looked at. The Committee has been very concerned not only about the appalling scandal that has been PPI mis-selling, but about the implications for people who can no longer obtain PPI. This is very important not only for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents but for all our constituents right across the United Kingdom. I am very pleased to have the opportunity to set out the Government’s position.

The hon. Gentleman will recall that when we were together on the Treasury Committee one of my absolute pet projects was to try to increase competition in the UK banking system. One of my favourite lines was that people are more likely to divorce not once but twice than to change their bank account. There has been a fundamental lack of competition in the banking system, which has meant that we are in a position now where people are lucky if they are able to get access to certain products and services. He is therefore absolutely right to raise this issue today.

It is very important to me as a Treasury Minister to use my time in the role to ensure that consumers become more empowered and more capable of taking responsibility for their own financial future. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will also be reassured to hear that I wholeheartedly share his central concern that consumers need to build their own financial resilience—if you like, a financial fall-back—into their own financial affairs.

Of course, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that one such financial fall-back might be a loan protection product or another kind of income protection product, but it could also be savings, and some people will rely on responsible borrowing to help them to bridge the peaks and troughs in their finances. The key point is that consumers are vulnerable if they do not have any kind of financial fall-back. Financial difficulties can mount up and quickly turn into problem debts, as we have seen all too often. That situation is what the Government are taking comprehensive steps both to prevent and address.

I would like to use my comments this morning to set out, first, what the Government and the regulator are doing to support the development of appropriate protection products; secondly, how the Government are using flexibility and tax relief to promote savings and reward savers; thirdly, how we are reforming the regulation of consumer credit, to ensure that lenders both lend responsibly and treat those consumers who are in financial difficulties fairly and with understanding; and finally, a bit about how we are taking action on debt advice, to ensure that those who have problem debts get the help that they need.

To start with, I shall discuss the protection market. As the hon. Gentleman rightly said, consumer trust in protection products has been severely damaged by the PPI mis-selling scandal, and the market has contracted severely as a result of this lack of consumer trust. With a scandal on such a scale, robust regulatory action is key to restoring faith in the products and in the firms that provide them. I agree that that does not mean that consumers’ need for protection products, as one form of financial fall-back, has gone away. As long as the products are sold appropriately and responsibly, and as long as consumers can trust them, they continue to serve a real purpose. We need to promote them, and on that point the hon. Gentleman and I completely agree.

The Financial Conduct Authority also believes that there is a place in the market for income protection products. It has issued guidance that is designed to encourage a new generation of products that are fit for purpose. Although PPI is no longer allowed to be sold at the point that a loan or credit is given, a number of alternative protection products are available to consumers, some of which the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, such as income protection insurance, and innovations such as debt waivers, as the market adjusts to consumer demands.

The Government have been driving the industry, and will continue to drive it, to design and bring to market simple and transparent income protection products that are fit for purpose and that consumers can more easily understand and trust. In fact, that was one of our aims in commissioning Carol Sergeant to conduct a review of simple financial products. As the hon. Gentleman may know, her report recommended the development of a number of simple products, including savings products and a simple income protection product. The industry is making good progress against her recommendations. It has committed to getting a simple products accreditation model up and running by the end of the year. In parallel, the Association of British Insurers is leading on the development of a simple group income protection product, which can be sold throughout the workplace. We are confident that simplifying products in this way will make it easier for consumers to see the benefits of protection products, and will redevelop the income protection market in a way that works better for consumers.

[Mr Love]

I hear what the Minister is saying about all the developments and the work that both consultants and the regulator are doing in relation to protection policies, but unfortunately there has been very little impact on the market so far. That may be understandable in the context of the disaster that PPI has been in terms of providing income protection policies. However, the debt waiver is something different and something that everyone can have confidence in: it is truly tried and tested in other countries. Will she give the House a reassurance that firmer, more robust steps will be taken by the Government to influence the regulator to do more to get the industry to take these protection policies seriously?

[Andrea Leadsom]

Yes, I think I can give the hon. Gentleman some reassurance that the Government are committed to the proper development of alternative income protection products, which would certainly include the debt waiver. Obviously, as he has pointed out, there has been a real crisis in consumer trust in these products, but the Government are certainly committed to ensuring that that lack of provision is addressed, and his raising the issue today will certainly reinforce our endeavours to achieve faster progress.

There are other ways in which the Government are trying to ensure that consumers and customers have proper financial protection. Of course, one of those measures has been to promote saving. Having a savings “buffer” is many people’s financial fall-back, and as the Chancellor made clear in March, this year’s Budget was a Budget for savers. We announced a reduction in taxes for the lowest-income savers, so that from next April the starting rate of savings income tax will be lowered from 10% to zero, and the band to which it applies will be extended to £5,000. That should help the worse off—the smaller savers—and encourage them to save in order to create a financial fall-back for themselves.

We also announced increased flexibility in saving and investment choices through the ISA system and an increase in the overall ISA limit to £15,000. We have introduced new National Savings and Investment products in order to help retired savers to get a better return. The Government have taken action on the promotion of savings products and increased saving as a means to create a financial fall-back, and we are determined to do more to help people to provide for their own financial fall-back needs.

There have been some important changes on the regulation of consumer credit that I am sure the hon. Gentleman would welcome. Regulation of consumer credit is vital to this debate in two ways: first, it is vital that lenders lend responsibly and only to those who can afford to pay it back; and secondly, lenders should treat people in financial difficulty fairly and with the appropriate understanding. The Government are committed to curbing irresponsible lending and strengthening consumer protections, and we have a clear vision for the consumer credit market. We want to see firms meeting the standards expected of them, lending responsibly, and offering competitively designed and priced loans and credit products that will meet consumers’ needs.

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that responsibility for consumer credit regulation has now transferred from the Office of Fair Trading to the new Financial Conduct Authority, which has far stronger powers. In particular, the FCA has turned the OFT’s non-binding guidance into binding rules. We are confident that the FCA is better resourced to take a proactive approach to identifying risk and that it has a broader and more robust suite of enforcement powers to punish breaches of its rules. As such, we are confident that in future lenders will both lend more responsibly and treat customers more fairly.

[Mr Love]

This is a slight aside to the thrust of the Minister’s comments, but with regard to the mortgage market review, which sets the terms of the discussion between the customer and the lending institution, I am not aware that within the comprehensive discussion that is now required any room is given to insurance products to protect the loan. I would have thought that that was one way in which the regulator could ensure that at least it is brought to the customer’s attention that they should get a protection policy, so that if things go wrong, they can rest assured that their loan will be insured.

[Andrea Leadsom]

The hon. Gentleman make a very good point. Since I am extremely new in the job, I hope that he will forgive me because that is a point that I cannot answer. Nevertheless, it is an excellent idea and perhaps I can write to him on it. I would certainly take such a good suggestion forward.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his invitation. I am keen to become more closely involved in such an important issue and so will discuss with my team whether I can come to meet his constituents. I thank him again for the invitation.

Finally, I want to mention the provision of debt advice. Where people get into financial difficulty, the Government are committed to ensuring that they can access free help and advice on managing debts. That is why the Government have put funding for debt advice on to a sustainable footing.

In conclusion, I thank the hon. Member for Edmonton again for instigating this debate on such an incredibly important issue. We know that times have been extraordinarily tough and continue to be so for many people in the United Kingdom, and we are determined to do more to ensure that consumers get the advice and support, the responsible lending, and the suite of products that they need to enable them to manage their own financial affairs more effectively.

[Mr Love]

I thank the Minister for being so liberal in taking interventions. One conclusion that I have reached on this issue is that the relationship between the Treasury and the regulators is extremely important. Will the Minister discuss with the regulator what further action it can take to get the industry to live up to its responsibilities to give customers not just a responsibly delivered loan, but protection for that loan should things go wrong?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I will take up that issue with the FCA when I see it next.

I hope that the hon. Gentleman is reassured that the Government fully agree with his concerns and are already taking action to address them, and that I have undertaken to try to take further his specific recommendation that we look more closely at debt waivers. We are determined that financial services serve consumers in the way that they should, and that consumers understand the benefits of all the products, including income protection, that are on offer. I am very glad to have had my first Westminster Hall debate as a Minister with such a sensible and measured colleague, and I shall look forward very much to his holding me to account in the coming years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Love and Andrea Leadsom

Tuesday 29th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

16. What recent representations he has received on reform of the Office for Budget Responsibility.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrea Leadsom)]

The Chancellor regularly receives representations on a wide range of matters, including the role of the independent Office for Budget Responsibility.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Love]

The Minister ought to be aware that it is not only the Opposition who are promoting this change in policy. The chair of the OBR himself has been sympathetic to it, and the Conservative Chair of the Treasury Committee has also been supportive. Even the Chief Secretary, who is sitting near the Minister on the Front Bench, gave us warm words during the last session of Treasury questions. It seems that the Government are isolated on this issue, but there is still time for that to change.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising those points. It is true that there are those who favour the change in principle, including Robert Chote himself, but Mr Chote has also made it clear that, for very good reasons, now may not be the time for it to take place. Amending the OBR’s remit would require primary legislation, and would have huge implications for the resources available to it. We need to consider such action after the next general election, when there will be time for it to be reviewed properly in the House.

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill

Debate between Andrew Love and Andrea Leadsom

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Love]

Is not one of the problems—this was certainly highlighted in our investigations—the ownership of the infrastructure by the banks, and the difficulty in getting them to change? Is not a payments regulator the ideal way to twist their arm, so that they do the right thing?

[Andrea Leadsom]

Yes. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and he has certainly been a keen supporter of bank number portability, as have many hon. Members in the Chamber today. The payments regulator that the Government are consulting on is the first step to achieving transparency. The next step is empowering that regulator to do something to enforce bank number portability when it finds, as I am sure that it will, that to date there has been a completely deliberate attempt to restrict competition in the banking system.

The big banks have said that bank account number portability would cost an absolute fortune, yet the technology already exists. Some people have asked whether it would not be an enormous risk to data integrity if the consumer’s bank account number, sort code and payments instructions were held by VocaLink, but in reality, all the consumer’s details are held by the bank, which passes them all on to VocaLink, so there are double risks to data integrity at the moment. Holding those account details in VocaLink would reduce, rather than increase, the risk.

People also say that other banks cannot access VocaLink’s payments infrastructure directly, because all the banks that clear direct have mutually to underwrite each other’s payments. The smaller challenger banks cannot possibly afford to underwrite the payments of the bigger banks. However, we could easily solve that; already, in various exchanges, banks pre-fund payments. If a bank’s balance were too low, and it was running short of cash with which to meet its outgoing payments, it would be called, intra-day, for more cash. That problem is easily solvable, and the reason why it has not been solved is that that is simply not in the big banks’ interests.

It has also been said that the proposal would surely be incredibly complicated from an IT point of view, but VocaLink has already set up bank accounts for the Department for Work and Pensions, because a lot of the Department’s benefits customers do not have bank accounts. VocaLink is already able to manage customer account details for DWP customers, so the technology already exists. I simply do not accept the idea that there would be eye-watering costs. Chief executives of big banks have literally said it would cost trillions—absolutely vast sums—but I challenge them to provide any scrap of evidence that shows that is the case, and that their refusal is not down to their desire to restrict access to new players.

The advantages of bank account number portability are, of course, the elimination of barriers to entry, and increased competition as a result. One of the big problems for new entrants is that it is so difficult to gain customer share, because people will not move bank accounts. With bank account number portability, if I, as a customer, was sick and tired of my bank, I could move tomorrow, the day after, and the day after that, if I was not getting good service, and it would not be any skin off my nose; it would be perfectly easy to do, and it would be the banks’ problem. That would be an enormous change in the competitive environment.

Likewise, there would be far greater consumer choice. Bank account number portability would encourage the likes of Tesco Bank and Marks & Spencer Financial Services—any big, multinational conglomerate—to go into the money business; it would become yet another product line. That in itself would eliminate some of the problems of “too big to fail”, because there would be many more smaller players, which would have many product lines, and therefore would not have all their eggs in one basket.



For small businesses the change would be revolutionary. At present one of the biggest problems for small businesses is that the big banks require that as well as their company accounts, small business people have their personal accounts and mortgage with the same big bank and do all their foreign exchange, overdraft, loans and other transactions through that bank. It is incredibly difficult for a small business to move accounts because of the complexity of all their suppliers and all the people they are trying to trade with. The barriers to entry for them are perhaps even greater than they are for us as individuals. Again, being able to take their bank account number with them would change the position dramatically.

Another huge advantage that is not often talked about is that since the 1990s, when I was running Barclays bank’s team, an enormous consolidation has taken place. There used to be 44 big banks in the UK; there are now about 22 banks of any size. The consolidation meant that during the 1990s many banks took over other banks, broker- dealers, small fund managers and so on, so they have an enormous number of legacy systems. They have managed to string them together over the years, but bank fraud in this country alone is huge. Changing the payment system would dramatically reduce the incidence of bank fraud. Intellect, the IT trade body, has said that the change could reduce the incidence of bank fraud by up to £30 billion a year.

Finally, another key advantage of bank account number portability is resolution. Andy Haldane, the Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, has gone on record as saying that it would be the solution when the day comes that a big bank fails again. We have, of course, put in as many steps as we can. Basel III will make great strides towards ensuring that banks cannot fail again. We have created our new regulators. We have ensured that banks have proper leverage and proper capital. All those measures are designed to ensure that banks cannot fail again, but we know that banks will always fail. That is the reality in a western developed market economy such as ours. We saw only too recently the problems with Northern Rock, when people were desperate to take their money out. The answer to resolution is for the Bank of England to be able to say, “You have failed. We are now taking all your accounts and putting them with survivor banks.”

There is a huge amount going for bank account number portability, above and beyond the seven-day switching process. My new clause calls for the Government to ensure, within 12 months of Royal Assent, a full cost-benefit analysis of bank account number portability. Should the findings be that this is a good idea, and should it produce the kind of benefits that I have just described, the regulator should be empowered to implement bank account number portability. I welcome the Government’s assurances that they will move in that direction. On that basis I will not press my new clause to a Division, but I urge the Government to keep up the momentum and ensure that before too long we have full account number portability.

Banking Competition

Debate between Andrew Love and Andrea Leadsom

Thursday 12th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

What an astonishing few weeks it has been in the banking sector. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Chope. I am sure that my colleagues my hon. Friends the Members for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) and for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman), the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) and for Wells (Tessa Munt) who supported the application for this debate with me will be feeling, as I do, that the debate could not come at a more important time for such a key British industry.

Banks are incredibly important to Britain’s economic well-being. Financial services employ more than a million people in Britain and generate more than 10% of our annual tax revenue. The vast majority of those who work in the sector are doing an honest day’s job every day for an average salary and, if they are lucky, a modest bonus at the end of the year.

Banking is a vital industry that could lead us back to economic recovery. However, that will not happen on the back of what we have heard about the fraudulent and corrupt practices of the small number of massive earners who have done so much to destroy the image of our banks. It is vital that we re-establish banks as calm, measured and instinctively cautious guardians of the trust and confidence that account holders place in them. For a long time, I and many others have believed that more competition in the banking sector is key to that turnaround, and the events of the past few weeks have brought that sharply into focus.

I know it is annoying when people say, “It’s not like it was in my day,” but that is honestly how I felt after hearing Bob Diamond’s evidence to the Treasury Committee last week. For 25 years before becoming an MP, I worked in finance, including in Barclays’ dealing room just after the big bang in 1987. It was a different world. In those days, asking the treasury team what the LIBOR setting was would be a bit like asking you what the time is, Mr Chope; I would not expect you to tell me anything other than the facts.

However, that was in the late ’80s, when there were about 45 major banks in the UK. In the past 10 years, according to the British Bankers Association, that figure has halved to just 22. Not only that, but five of those banks have between them 80% of the personal current account market and the small and medium-sized enterprise market. I feel sure that the scandals of the past few years simply point to the disastrous consequences of the mergers and takeovers that took place during the 1990s. We now have a small group of vast institutions, where the culture has been shown to be, “Heads, I win; tails, the taxpayer loses.” That is a far cry from my day when “my word is my bond” was the ruling mantra in the City.

British people across the country are furious about the behaviour of the banks and they have every right to feel that way. Banks—already seen as greedy and arrogant— have stooped to a new low of corruption and fraud. The inquiry into wrongdoing, how widespread it may be among banks, and how many other areas of finance could have been manipulated has to run its course. However, we also have to think long and hard about the future. People are quite rightly asking, “What are the Government doing about it?” The answer is, “A lot.” Since 2010, the coalition Government have put forward radical proposals to ditch Labour’s appalling tripartite regulatory regime that enabled almost every regulator off the hook for the financial crisis. We have instigated the Vickers commission and accepted the retail ring-fencing proposal, as well as faster account switching. We have also proposed a new responsibility for financial stability for the Bank of England.

However, we could do more. In light of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and Financial Services Authority judgments against Barclays, as well as investigations into other banks, we should be re-opening the debate in three key areas. The first is regulation. There is an old saying that investment bankers operate under equal measures of fear and greed. However, for years now, there has been vast greed with no fear of consequences. Regulators in the future will need extremely sharp teeth, so that if criminal behaviour is taking place in a financial institution, all those responsible go to prison like any other thief, and there should be new criminal negligence tests for bank boards.

The bizarre evidence from Bob Diamond that he found out only one month ago about the corruption and fraud that had gone on at Barclays since 2005 should not be an acceptable excuse. Enormous earnings require enormous accountability. And I say to those who think we will never find another bank chief executive, that I do not believe for one minute that banks will struggle to find people willing to take their shilling in return for that responsibility. I would be delighted to hear from anyone who thinks that they would not give it a go for a couple of million a year. There would be plenty of takers.

The Government should be returning to the objectives of the new regulators—the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. They should both be given a specific objective to reduce barriers to entry and promote competition. Only one new high street bank has launched with a full banking licence in the past 100 years; that was Metro Bank. Or was it in the past 300 years—[Interruption.] Sorry, 100 years. Other recent new entrants have tended either to be backed by one of the big five, such as Marks and Spencer financial services which is backed by HSBC, or have benefited from Government sell-offs, such as Virgin buying the good bit of Northern Rock.

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

Before the hon. Lady moves on from the point about greater competition for banks, will she welcome the discussions between Lloyds bank and the Co-operative bank about a possible sale to the Co-operative bank, which would create one challenger bank in the marketplace?

[Andrea Leadsom]

Absolutely. I agree with the hon. Gentleman. That is a very good move. Personally, I think that a reversal of the Lloyds-HBOS merger would be better.

Secondly, the issue of a complete separation of retail and investment banking should return to the agenda. It is right that the Government should be the ultimate guarantor of retail deposits, but that guarantee should not extend to high-risk transactions. If an investment bank goes under, the losses should be borne by those who were happy to take the profits in better times, something to which the Government are already committed. Vickers has proposed ring-fencing already, but we should be examining again the prospect of a total separation.

Thirdly, the key issue is that of competition. The Government need to take further steps to inject greater competition into the banking sector. People have lost faith in the banking industry. Small businesses are finding credit hard to come by, taxpayers are furious at the billions spent on the bail-outs, pay for bankers is too often unrelated to performance, and customer service levels are, in many cases, utterly appalling.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for intervening. Not specifically, no. My point is more that we need the market to decide on diversity. I do not think that the Government, in any area of our economic life, should be the ones who pick who should be doing what. What Government need to be doing is facilitating greater competition and greater diversity so I would not be prescriptive in that way.

The key point that I want to focus on is that a real game changer for competition would be for the Government to introduce full bank account portability. We take that for granted with our mobile phones. Why should our bank accounts be any different? I have been pressing for it, along with various colleagues, since becoming an MP. If people were able to switch instantly between banks without having to change their bank account number, bank cards, standing orders, direct debits and all their online shopping, that would remove a massive barrier to entry that is currently constraining new, innovative banks.

Bank account portability has five basic benefits. The first, obviously, is that it creates greater bank competition. That is because a new bank can say to its customers, “Come and give us a try. If you don’t like us, you can move back to your old bank tomorrow.” The enormous inertia on the part of customers, who do not want to move bank because of the hassle and aggravation for them personally, would be removed instantly. They could switch between banks every day of the week if they chose to do so.

Secondly, personal and business customers would be able to force banks to compete for their business. New banks would therefore be putting forward innovative ideas—perhaps paying customers to move to them at one end and giving particular services to business account customers at the other end. That would completely change the choice available to consumers, and the consumer choice argument is a very strong one. At the moment, with the big banks, most people feel that there is no choice.

The third benefit is better regulation. The regulator would be able to shut down a failing bank while avoiding the risk of a run on the banks. With account portability, all personal and business accounts could be switched immediately to a survivor bank.

Fourthly, there would be a reduction in fraud. The highly overestimated costs of account portability need to be set against the significant reduction in bank fraud. I was talking to Intellect, the IT trade body, which reckons that bank fraud could be reduced by up to 40% if we had full account portability, because one of the major reasons for fraud is the poor legacy systems in some of the big banks.

The fifth benefit would be support for SMEs. It is crucial that we have that in our economy; we have to get businesses going again. Funnily enough, if banks had a single system, they would also have a single customer view, so they would be able to evaluate, calculate and assess their small business customers far more accurately, enabling them to meet the needs of small businesses far better.

Making it easier for people to switch bank account provider is not a new concept. Don Cruickshank, who led a review of the banking sector and whose report was published in 2000, has long been committed to the idea. In 2000, Halifax launched the stand-alone telenet bank Intelligent Finance, with the express aim of making it easier for consumers to switch bank accounts. In March 2001, the Competition Commission identified reluctance on the part of small and medium-sized businesses to switch banks as a major problem. Later that year, the Bank of Scotland announced its intention to capture business from what was at the time the big four with a new “Easy to Join” service, which would assign a staff member to oversee the account switching process and to deal with direct debits, standing orders, international transfers and the like.

In June 2002, James Crosby, then chief executive of HBOS, said that he was concerned by delays to greater account portability and that the move was vital for competition. More recently, the Independent Commission on Banking, led by Sir John Vickers, called for a system that would make account switching easier. However, the ICB’s proposals stopped short of full account portability.

This year, Virgin Money has added its support for full bank account portability. It has said that it is happy to support the ICB proposal that a current account redirection service should be established by September 2013, but that it is

“not sure that it will be sufficient to overcome consumers’ inertia, and their concerns that switching may be difficult.”

In its submission to the ICB, it expressed a preference for full account number portability.

The ICB published its final report in September 2011, following an interim report that April. The Treasury Committee took evidence in relation to both reports, and several bankers said that account switching was important. Mr Horta-Osorio, chief executive of Lloyds Banking Group, told the Committee:

“There has been progress made in terms of customers being able to switch effectively and without risk, but more progress can be made. We are proposing a seven-day automated redirection of direct debits whereby customers in seven days can be sure that their account and their direct debits are automatically redirected to the new account without any risk. All banks have now endorsed that solution and the Payments Council as well.”

At the weekend, Jayne-Anne Gadhia, Virgin Money’s chief executive, said that

“banking doesn’t have to be remote, distant and just transactional. There can be a new and different future where customers are at the centre of the banking experience…For too long, banking has been more head than heart. We want to put more heart into it.”

The ICB reported that there was a switching rate of just 3.8% for personal current accounts in 2010, that three quarters of consumers had never considered switching their current account, that 51% of SMEs had never switched their main banking relationship and that 85% of businesses surveyed by the Federation of Small Businesses had not switched their main banking provider in three years. Which?, the consumer focus group, estimates that people are more likely to get divorced than change their bank account. Those switching rates compare very unfavourably with those in other industries. In 2010, 15% of consumers changed their gas supplier, 17% switched electricity supplier, 26% switched telephone provider and 22% changed insurance provider.

Jayne-Anne Gadhia of Virgin Money says that

“retail banking has been underinvested in. When retail banking becomes the focus of senior banking executives again, which the splitting of retail and investment banking would bring about, bank customers will get a better service. If that happens, then I would be delighted.”

I agree with her. Making it easier for consumers to switch provider would be a boost to new entrants in the market and therefore to competition, because consumers would know that if they did not like the bank they had moved to, they could always move again.

[Mr Love]

The question that I am about to ask is one that I have some feeling about, as I have tried to shift my bank account in the recent past. The industry would argue that it is shortening the process and making it more secure, and that we should give that an opportunity to bed down in order to see whether it works. The industry also claims that it is very expensive. How does the hon. Lady respond to those concerns and how important does she think it is that we create a fully portable system?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking that question. If people consider the cost to the taxpayer of the financial crisis and if people believe, as I do, that the reason for the financial crisis was that banks were too big to fail, it makes sense that if banks were no longer too big to fail, the taxpayer would no longer bear that massive liability. We need to consider the costs of achieving competition in the context of what has happened in the recent past, but yes, it would be expensive to achieve it.

The likes of VocaLink and Intellect, the IT trade body, have advised me that the costs are not in creating the centralised account-holding system required for fully transferable bank accounts, but in the big oligopoly banks changing their systems of sort codes, cheque books, bank account numbers and so on to fit in with a new system. The ultimate irony is that the challenger banks, such as Metro Bank, Virgin Money and Aldermore, would love account transferability because it is a minor cost to them; it is a major cost to those banks that, by dint of having legacy systems, have a lousy ability to feed in to a single system, so would find it very expensive.

You will be pleased to know that I am coming to a conclusion, Mr Chope. Now is not the time for timidity over reform in our banking sector and nor is it the time for false economies. We need to focus on enabling new entrants into the market, taking the steps that will be good for the consumer and for small businesses, and beginning the long process of restoring the reputation of our banking sector.