Local Government Finance (England)

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is of course better for councils to face in the direction of bringing successful businesses into their area and benefiting from that, rather than passing all such benefits up to the Exchequer.

A few moments ago, I mentioned the increasing elderly population, but, as I said to the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones), we have had a decade of significant demographic change without the needs-based formula—it determines how much a well-run council requires to deliver its services efficiently—being revised to reflect that change.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Barbara Keeley]

Indeed; Tory Trafford. I was a councillor in Trafford, by the way, and I have to tell the Secretary of State that the council leader is not called Stephen Anstee; he is called Sean Anstee. The right hon. Gentleman has referred to him twice this week as Stephen—

[Greg Clark]

rose—

[Andrew Gwynne]

You can’t intervene on an intervention.

Local Government Finance

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Monday 8th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

My hon. Friend is right: he has a well-run council, and representations from him, our colleague and the council led me to make the changes that I have made. On the early retention of business rates, I am glad that he has given me the opportunity to say to all Members that, through the devolution deals, we are keen to get on with the devolution of business rates. I encourage all areas to introduce proposals on that. The Chancellor has made a commitment that that should be in place by 2019-20, but that is “by” rather than “in”, and I should have thought that West Berkshire and its neighbours were well placed to put together a good case for that.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I always had the Secretary of State down as a fairly bright chap, but this would be a fair settlement only if it were predicated on every area having an equal council tax base and equal levels of need. Representing as I do a cross-borough constituency—for the PPSs, that is Tameside and Stockport—I know that those two local authorities are very different in their ability to raise income. Tameside, for example, this year has a £16 million deficit in adult social care. The levy on council tax—the 2% precept—will raise £1.4 million only. How does the Secretary of State plan to fill that gap?

[Greg Clark]

I have given some advice to the hon. Gentleman’s neighbour, the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds), on this issue. If the hon. Gentleman would like me to arrange for him to meet Sean Anstee, the leader of Trafford council, I think he would find it a very constructive conversation. In a world of devolution, Trafford may be able to provide some advice and assistance to the hon. Gentleman’s borough council on running an efficient set of services.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Tuesday 12th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

My hon. Friend is right to say that we need to get Britain building again, and we are doing so, with a 25% increase in starts in the past year. We need to do this right across the country. I would have thought that all Members of the House, including Labour Members, shared in the warm welcome given across the housing sector, including by housing associations and by builders big and small, to the announcements the Chancellor made in the spending review, which double the housing budget. This is the biggest programme of affordable house building that we have seen since the 1970s.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Of course, what is affordable to the Secretary of State’s constituents might not be affordable to mine. Does he share my concerns that what we will see, as perhaps an unintended consequence of his measures, is the removal of properties from the social rented sector and their appearance in the private rented sector, costing more to the public purse in the long run?

[Greg Clark]

No, we want to see more homes of all types. We have committed to build 1 million homes over the next five years, which the previous Labour Government signally failed to do. In fact, when they were in power, the number of homes that were built in a single year fell to 88,000, which was the lowest number since the 1920s.

Local Government Finance

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Thursday 17th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

I understand the point my hon. Friend makes. In moving money within the system to authorities with social care responsibilities, we have taken account of the pressures. I am sure he will want to meet me and my colleagues to talk about the particular circumstances of Worthing. West Sussex as a whole has the responsibility for this, and I can tell my hon. Friend that its funding will increase by 2.9% by 2019-20, which will provide a big help in meeting these costs.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The full integration of health and social care in Tameside has already led to £30 million of recurring savings being identified, but that still leaves £40 million to find through other efficiencies. The Chancellor’s social care levy on the council tax only raises £1.4 million because of the low council tax base, against a social care shortfall of £16 million. So how much of that extra money announced today will Tameside receive—not as a percentage, but in real cash terms—and how much of that £16 million social care gap does the Secretary of State anticipate will be filled?

[Greg Clark]

What I can tell the hon. Gentleman is that the allocation of the better care fund is done in a way that is complementary to the 2%, to recognise the particular pressures in authorities such as his. The answer to his question is that the package for adult social care, including both elements, will add almost £16 million to Tameside by 2019-20.

Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [Lords]

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. It is important that both back-bench councillors and Members of Parliament have the opportunity to exercise scrutiny of any elected officials, whether they be chairs of combined authorities or members of the cabinets put together by combined authorities or boroughs.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

rose—

[Greg Clark]

Let me finish answering the question from the hon. Member for Bury South (Mr Lewis).

Having a prominent and identifiable figure can, I think, help that scrutiny. Both the recent Mayors in London have been prominent individuals, and I dare say that they would both say that they feel pretty well scrutinised by Members of Parliament, elected members and indeed by public opinion. Under the Bill, it is open to different authorities to put arrangements together. In the case of Greater Manchester, strong powers exist for the constituent authorities, which have a long track record of working very well together to exercise scrutiny over the elected mayor. Members of those councils, of course, are linked in through that. Different arrangements are possible in different places.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Clark]

I am going to make some progress, but after I have done so, I will of course give way to Members who wish to intervene.

That is partly why we have decided to develop bespoke arrangements, but we also respect the fact that every place is very different. Greater Manchester, for instance, is a very different place from Liverpool. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] Indeed, the difference is to be celebrated. Vive la différence! They are both proud cities in their own right.

One of my regrets about the periods during which those two great cities, and others, were subsumed into the region called the north-west, which I do not think enjoyed a fraction of the identity, recognition, affection and, indeed, power they had enjoyed, is that they were sublimated, and our approach gives expression to that regret. I have been delighted, but not surprised, by the response of civic and business leaders across the country, and not just in our cities. They have demonstrated their enthusiasm for investing in a greater prominence for cities, towns and counties that can boost the economic prospects of the whole country.

[Andrew Gwynne]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne]

May I return the Secretary of State to the issue of identity? People will obviously not identify with the new office of mayor and the combined authority unless they feel that they have some buy-in. The Local Government Act 2000, which introduced the cabinet system to local government, provided for two important functions. One was the call-in procedure, and the other was the provision that key cabinet decisions must be made public and must be publicly scrutinised. Does the Secretary of State expect the same powers to apply to the office of the mayor and the combined authority?

[Greg Clark]

Yes, I do. I think that the arrangements we require should have the potential to be equally transparent, although they may not need to be identical. We must consider them, debate them and ensure that they achieve the purpose that the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

I will now give way to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Monday 13th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

My hon. Friend, who made a distinguished contribution as housing Minister, is right. Permitted development rights are important to bring otherwise disused spaces, such as offices, into use for homes. He will not have long to wait before we announce the continuation of those arrangements.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I am interested in the Secretary of State’s proposals to reform planning regulations, but will he look carefully at unintended consequences? We all want an increase in the number of homes being built, but we do not necessarily want to lose valuable employment land.

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable point in a reasonable way. He is absolutely right, which is why article 4 directions are expressly available to local authorities to make sure that land is kept for a particular use where it is important to do so.

Some of the proposals will be contained in the housing Bill this autumn and the House will have the opportunity to debate them. The Bill will create a new register of brownfield land to help fast-track the construction of homes, with the principle of development being agreed on 90% of suitable sites by the end of this Parliament. In London, I am pleased that my hon. Friend the Mayor will create an additional 10 housing zones, all on brownfield land. Those additional zones will bring the total number in the capital to 20, which, combined with the 20 housing zones outside London and the eight shortlisted areas that we have agreed to work with, could deliver nearly 100,000 more homes.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

I will indeed. I had the great pleasure of visiting Southend in March with my hon. Friend and my hon. Friend the Member for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge). This is a very good deal for Southend and it is being implemented. Its focus is on supporting small businesses in Southend. Everyone knows that Essex has a formidable reputation for the entrepreneurialism of its people, and that is now supported in Southend. The deal will have the further side-effect of helping to regenerate the area of Victoria avenue, and I know my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Mr Amess) has long championed the need to improve that area.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The Minister said that city deals are bespoke entities and I certainly welcome the Greater Manchester devolution package. One of the benefits of the regional development agencies that this Government scrapped was that they brought in strategic thinking outside city region boundaries, but that has now gone. What is the Minister doing to make sure that we get proper strategic thinking and strategic planning in place so that we do not just end up with a patchwork of city deals, but get proper decisions that suit areas wider than city regions?

Local Growth Deals

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Monday 7th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

It will, indeed.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The process of devolution to Greater Manchester was of course started in 2008 under a Labour Government, but I certainly welcome today’s announcement, including the funds for Tameside college, which serves my constituency. If the Minister has any unallocated funds, may I beg him to look again at the small town centre initiative as part of the Greater Manchester package? That package includes a shovel-ready scheme for the Denton link road that would provide important access to the Oldham Batteries employment site, which has lain derelict for 10 years, but is an important piece of our regeneration jigsaw.

[Greg Clark]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman was the last Labour Member standing, while there are still plenty of Government Members standing. The great advantage of the arrangements is that he can take his case to Greater Manchester. It should no longer require a Minister to agree to a local project; as a result of this deal, the people who now have the budgets to implement such things are those in the Greater Manchester authority.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

I do agree. I am looking forward to giving evidence to my hon. Friend’s Committee next week in pursuance of that. However, I do not think I am letting the cat of the bag when I say that I am strongly in favour of the direction of the inquiry. The fact that the Mayor displays his usual muscularity in forcing this on to the agenda is very much an illustration of the power of the devolution of powers that has already taken place.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The Heseltine recommendations will work only where there is proper buy-in both to the planning policies and the economic policies for a local area. What discussions is the Minister having to make sure that local authorities—combined authorities where we have them—and local enterprise partnerships are working together to ensure that the populations themselves support that co-ordinated approach?

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. As a Manchester MP, he will know that the Greater Manchester combined authority is perhaps the best example of the fruits of the co-operation between local authorities. The relationship between the combined authority and the local enterprise partnership is very close, and that closeness of working has been one of the key contributors to the economic success of Greater Manchester in recent years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Monday 30th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

My hon. Friend will know that the Electoral Commission set the question. In fact, the terms of the referendum are very similar to that which the previous Government introduced in London to give the people of London a chance to vote on whether to have a mayor. I think that most people in London conclude that it has been a success.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Why does the Minister persist in selling his reforms as introducing London-style city governance in other large cities in England? If he genuinely believes in London-style city governance, why will his proposed mayor of Manchester be responsible for governing only one tenth of the city region?

[Greg Clark]

The election is based on the current boundaries of Manchester, and that seems perfectly reasonable. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman is asking me to abolish the councils that exist in Greater Manchester. Salford, which is part of Greater Manchester, will have a mayor who will be elected on 3 May, and the people of Manchester have a choice as to whether they want to join it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Monday 5th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is clear from an earlier answer that the Minister sees the current planning framework as a burden. Is he so blinkered to the concern that his changes could signal the return to the 1980s planning free-for-all, undermining the established sequential test—brownfield, open space—and town centre policies along the way?

[Greg Clark]

I am happy to reassure the hon. Gentleman that that is not the case. If he takes the specific example of brownfield sites, he will find that paragraph 165 of the framework sets out clearly that land of the least environmental value should be brought forward first. That is another way of saying brownfield land first.

Reddish Business Incubator

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Greg Clark)]

It is a pleasure to serve for the first time under your chairmanship, Mr Scott. I congratulate the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) on securing the debate. To judge from his suntan, he comes hot from the campaign trail. It has been a beautiful weekend to be out on the hustings, and I detected a hint of the hustings in his remarks, if that is not too churlish an observation.

I shall address the context of the business incubator before I turn to the specific issues that the hon. Gentleman raised. As he acknowledged, the Government’s policy is one of localism. It is important that local authorities’ behaviour and policies are held to account by local people—as a local representative, he is taking the opportunity to do so today—but it is not for central Government to comment on the detailed policies and practices of local authorities. They are, rightly, independent of central Government, responsible for their own finances and free to make their own decisions.

As the hon. Gentleman said, the Localism Bill will increase opportunities for local authorities to be relatively free to take decisions and to be scrutinised on them locally. Indeed, we want to go further than that. Beyond the Localism Bill, the local government resource review, which has kicked off, is considering options to allow authorities to keep their business rates precisely so that there can be a better relationship between the opportunities for new business in an area and the rewards that an authority receives from them. It is important that we consider and expand the opportunities available for local councils to engage with their businesses so that there is encouragement for more to be set up.

The potential for increased control of local finances will mean that local councils will be able to consider whether business incubators—or innovation centres, as they are sometimes called in other authorities—are right for them. There is no reason why such types of activity should not be provided by the council or with close council involvement. It was not clear from the hon. Gentleman’s remarks whether he thinks that the innovation centre—the business incubator—should be closed down and its activities ceased, whether it should not have been established in the first place, or whether it should be run in a slightly different way. I will be happy for him to intervene if he can clarify that.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I mentioned that I was supportive of local authorities supporting local businesses. I also mentioned Stockport Boost and Tameside Works First, which are good examples of where that happens in my constituency. What I am concerned about is the bottomless pit that seems for ever to be filled by council tax payers’ money in Reddish. We need to get a grip on this. More importantly, the local community, through the local council, needs to scrutinise that effectively. The real problem in Reddish is that there has not been effective scrutiny.

[Greg Clark]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s clarification. I take it from that that he is in favour of incubators and of them succeeding. I think that he would want to be the first to congratulate the council on securing valuable jobs. Some 140 people are employed in the incubator, and I think it is important to recognise the potential for increasing employment in small businesses in a part of his constituency that is relatively deprived. I hope that he supports the principle of an incubator, although it would be reasonable for him to set out any concerns about how it has been managed in the past and how it will be managed in the future.

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the incubator model is typically not financially self-sustaining. Most of those that have been established involve some degree of public support, whether from European funds, as is sometimes the case, national Government funds or local authority funds. For example, his Labour colleagues in Darlington are keen to establish a business incubator and are looking for central Government funds to support that. The model of a business incubator usually involves some commitment of public funds with the intention that that should create jobs and reduce other demands on council revenue and expenditure so that a virtuous cycle is generated.

The hon. Gentleman is a reasonable man and I think that he would be the first to acknowledge that, in times of economic difficulty, small businesses will be affected—perhaps more so than larger businesses, in some ways. I am sure that he would agree that it would not be right to take away something of particular importance at a time of economic difficulty. It is right to keep faith with small businesses, rather than exacerbating the difficulties they might have due to the state of the economy by introducing jeopardy into an arrangement that exists to make sure that there are jobs to replace those that are lost elsewhere in the economy.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I take on board what the Minister says about business support, but does he think that the obligation of the community interest company to the local taxpayers of Stockport should be at least to collect the rents from the businesses in the business incubator?

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[Greg Clark]

Of course, and I will talk about the hon. Gentleman’s point later. Any administration of any organisation should be run to standards of good practice, and it is important that that continues. It was the hon. Gentleman’s Government who established community interest companies as a model in which the voluntary sector, communities and the local public sector could come together to pursue not-for-profit opportunities of local benefit, so I hope that he is not suggesting that there is something inherent in the structure of CICs from which we should back away. Obviously, he is right to ask questions and he has obtained information on the running and the practices of the organisation.

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that his council in Stockport and other Greater Manchester authorities have come together to make a successful and impressive proposal, which I think he supports, on the local enterprise partnership for Greater Manchester. The document that was successful in achieving authorisation is clear that the No. 1 ambition of the LEP is to develop Greater Manchester

“as a powerhouse for entrepreneurs, business start ups and innovation”.

I think that incubators such as that under discussion can play an important role, as all Greater Manchester councils, whatever their political complexion, would recognise. I do not think that this is a question about the principle of business incubators or about having community interest companies.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the performance of the incubator in question. On accountability for public funding or any other type of initiative, it is established that there are means—for local councillors, and for local representatives such as him—by which to obtain information and to shine the spotlight on the way in which organisations operate. He has done that by securing this debate, and I know that he has done so locally as well.

When considering Stockport council’s decision to support the business incubator project, it is worth remembering that every authority has a structure in place whereby it has to account for public sector funds. Indeed, legislation requires, and will continue to require, all local authorities to make arrangements for the proper administration of their financial affairs, to ensure that their financial management is adequate and effective, and to have in place a sound system of internal control that includes arrangements for the management of risk. I believe that this particular project was called in by the council’s scrutiny committee and considered in detail. Information has been disclosed through the freedom of information process and the future plans for the organisation have been established. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that, after looking at the matter closely, nothing has led me to believe that Stockport council has not exercised the proper degree of scrutiny. Nothing that the hon. Gentleman has said today has established that the council has been derelict in any of its responsibilities.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Will the Minister give way?

[Greg Clark]

I will not, because we have only a couple of minutes left and I want to conclude my comments. It is not a question of passing judgment on whether Stockport council was wasteful in its decision to provide support to the incubator. That decision has been made by a democratic and independent organisation and by a local authority aiming to help businesses to start up and grow in its area. As central Government, we should respect that.

The hon. Gentleman is right that we should make use of the powers available. He said at the beginning of the debate that I believe in transparency. The measures in the Localism Bill will increase the transparency to which local authorities are subject. I am keen that local people should be able to see what is being done with taxpayers’ funds. The local authority’s business plan for the incubator is in the public domain and people can take a view on whether it is an acceptable way to proceed. If they look at other business incubators throughout the country, they will see that it is rare for an incubator to operate at 100% capacity. The point of an incubator—almost—is to have some space available so that prospective businesses can locate there, so this situation is not out of the ordinary.

I know that that the local enterprise partnership will take a particular interest in the matter. It has made it clear that the facilities will be important for the full employment potential of Greater Manchester to be realised. I hope that the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues in Greater Manchester, including the other authorities, will consider how this particular incubator can be part of a network that the LEP may look to establish across the city so that it can realise the undoubtedly great potential for the small businesses of Greater Manchester to lead the way out of the economic difficulties from which they are suffering. I am grateful that I have had the opportunity to address the hon. Gentleman’s remarks.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and Greg Clark

Monday 4th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

Dover and Deal are fortunate indeed to have a representative who is as passionate a localist as my hon. Friend. I know that he is crusading to have the port of Dover retained in the hands of the local community. As Members know, the Localism Bill provides an opportunity for local communities to make a bid for assets of community value—and I dare say this might provide such an opportunity.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Given the Secretary of State’s well-publicised comments about “Pravda on the rates” and his desire to stop unnecessary council publications, what message does he have for Liberal Democrat-controlled Stockport council, which continues to publish the “Civic Review”, promoting only Liberal Democrat councillors just weeks before the local elections?