National Health Service

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and David T C Davies

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

I would like to tell the House what I think is an absolute disgrace. Not once during the speech made by the Secretary of State for Health, not once in any of the speeches made by Opposition Members and not once in Welsh questions earlier today did any Opposition Member raise the issue of what is happening in the national health service in Wales. Labour has been responsible for the health service in that part of the United Kingdom for the past 16 years, and Labour Members are running scared of making any mention of it or drawing any comparisons involving it. According to a House of Commons Library document—and they don’t come much more neutral than that—the NHS in Wales, run by Labour, is doing far worse than the NHS in England on almost every measure.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was present for Welsh questions earlier; I certainly was. Perhaps he was asleep, because the shadow Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith), used three of his questions to the Secretary of State to ask specifically about the NHS in Wales.

Health

Debate between Andrew Gwynne and David T C Davies

Monday 9th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

It is not a mixed picture at all and we should be very clear about that. People wait longer for treatment in Wales than they do in England. People wait longer to be diagnosed in Wales than they do in England. People wait longer for an ambulance in Wales than they do in England. Money for the NHS is being cut in Wales and it is being ring-fenced in England, because the NHS will be a priority.

The real disgrace is that Labour Members have always prided themselves on being the party of the NHS and have gone out of their way to do so. Because they have that reputation, they know that in Wales, and possibly in England too if they ever end up running things, they can get away with making cuts and with cosying up to the unions because they feel that people will trust them.

I say to anyone independent and impartial who wants to know what it would be like for NHS patients if Labour Members ever get into government, they should look at what is happening in Wales right now.

[Andrew Gwynne]

rose—

[David T. C. Davies]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman even though he did not extend that courtesy to me or to anyone else from Wales.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Of course, people only needed to see the NHS at its highest satisfaction levels in 2010 to know what Labour in Westminster would do. I will correct the record on cancer waits, because of course Wales has a better record on cancer waits than England does: 92% of people in Wales are seen within 62 days, as opposed to 86% of people on this side of Offa’s Dyke.

[David T. C. Davies]

That is a fairly minor difference—[Interruption.] Oh yes. However, what the hon. Gentleman has forgotten to say, of course, is that those people in Wales will have waited far longer for the diagnosis of cancer than people in England. That is why he is not being entirely straight in putting his facts across. When he is winding up, I challenge him to say whether he thinks what is going on in Wales at the moment is good and something that Labour Members would like to aim for. Is what is going on in Wales what they aspire to?

I urge anyone in the Opposition to look at The Guardian, which recently did an exposé of the NHS systems around the UK and showed that people in Wales have the longest waiting times of anyone in the United Kingdom, and that is the vision for the NHS that Labour Members want to impose on the people of England. I advise people in England to look at the figures before they decide to vote for Labour Members.

I ask the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) if he would be prepared to allow patients in Wales to be treated in England, and patients in England to be treated in Wales if they wish to do so. I doubt very much whether he would support such a thing.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again. He is obviously not aware that the number of English patients being treated in Welsh hospitals has increased by 10% since 2010.

[David T. C. Davies]

I am well aware of that, but the hon. Gentleman might not be aware that those patients have no choice. [Interruption.] He is laughing, but he does not understand how the system works. There are many patients on the English side of the border who are treated in Wales, but they have no choice about that. They have set up a pressure group, Action for our Health—he can look it up on one of his smart phones—because they are so disgusted with the service that they are getting in Wales that they want to be treated in England. The point is that they do not have a choice, and I believe that they should. Those English patients are very angry about the fact that they are treated in Wales and not given the choice.

When the Secretary of State was talking about some of the things that have gone wrong in the NHS, I heard an Opposition Member shout, “He hates the NHS.” My right hon. Friend does not hate the NHS, but he does believe in putting patient choice and patient voice first. He believes in standing up for patients against vested interests, wherever they may be. I fully support him in that and commend him for what he has done. My only criticism of Ministers in this Government is that they have improved services in England so much that I have an enormous mailbag of letters from people who want to access the services that they have put on offer. If anyone wants to find out what would happen if Labour ran the NHS in England, they should look at the facts and figures for Wales.