NHS (Contracts and Conditions)

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Monday 14th September 2015 Westminster Hall

[Paul Scully (Sutton and Cheam) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your stewardship, Ms Vaz. It is also a pleasure to follow two fellow members of the Petitions Committee, including the Chair, the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones). The Petitions Committee is a new Committee, and we are feeling our way. As hon. Members have heard, we cannot debate no-confidence motions; petitioners cannot seek a vote of no confidence in a Secretary of State or anybody else. None the less, it is important that we reflect the views and concerns of people who raise substantive matters with us, and I am glad that we have the opportunity to do so today.

Confidence and good staff morale in the NHS are important. In my constituency, morale in our local hospital, St Helier, has been comparatively low for several decades, for a number of reasons. A reorganisation has been recommended in the past couple of years, which we have successfully fought off so far. The NHS clinicians wanted to move A&E, maternity services and children’s services to St George’s in Tooting. One of the reasons why they wanted to do so was the shortage of consultants in St Helier. They wanted to concentrate consultants’ time in St George’s, which is too far away for residents.

One of the big driving factors in that, to my mind, is the fact that over 20 or so years, our local hospital has been used as a political football. People have said, “St Helier hospital is due to close. We have got only a short time, and we have to save it. We have to fight for this, because it will close some time soon.” I do not know about you, Ms Vaz, but if I were a consultant looking to work in the NHS, would I want to go and work in a hospital that is always apparently under threat of closure? No, I probably would not. I would probably go to St George’s or one of the hospitals that are being talked up. I have seen at first hand how staff morale in the NHS can be fragile. The same thing has happened nationally as well. How many times have we heard that we have 24 hours to save the NHS? We keep seeing, hearing and reading that, time after time. It is important to build confidence.

We also have a manifesto commitment to deliver. We talked in our manifesto about having a seven-day NHS, and we have been elected as a Conservative Government, so it is important that we deliver our promises. We have to work with the profession to do that, however. Why do we want a 24-hour NHS? We have heard some of the arguments about safety and patient outcomes, and at the end of the day, patient outcomes are what it is all about. There is also an argument—although, as my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) described, it is a secondary priority, because we do not want to divert too many resources—for convenience and fitting in with people’s lifestyles, which I will come back to in a moment.

The 2003 consultant contract made the seven-day move a lot more expensive to deliver, so we need to change things. Consultants, as we have heard, can refuse to work weekends, but it is quite apparent that a great many do not choose to opt out. We are not saying in a broad-brush way that every consultant opts out of such working. None the less, we need to have a degree of consistency if we are going to move towards a seven-day NHS, because we want to make sure that the healthcare in hospitals around the country is as consistent as possible. Removing the opt-out will leave a new limit of working a maximum of 13 weeks in a year—one in four weekends—which still gives plenty of opportunity for family life and for flexibility in rotas, while delivering better patient outcomes.

The changes also recognise the need for proper reward in areas such as A&E and obstetrics, with higher-performing consultants able to earn a bonus of up to £30,000 a year, and with faster pay progression for new consultants. The hon. Member for Warrington North talked about support services, which are crucial for front-line consultants, doctors and nurses. I am pleased to hear that diagnostic services will be moving in the same direction so that patients can have quicker access to information and advice about their conditions.

I have talked about convenience, and GP services cannot be boiled down to some sort of retail operation such as late-night shopping or Sunday opening. None the less, we need flexibility. The 2004 GP contract led 90% of GPs to stop providing out-of-hours care at night and at the weekend. That contract, in many cases, helped to break the personal link between patients and those responsible for their care, which has been especially hard on elderly people. Caving in to the unions at that point effectively restricted GP services to a five-day service, which created extra pressure on A&E.

I have had the misfortunate of having to use my local hospital’s A&E service four times in the past 18 months with my elderly mum and my wife. My wife stood on a six-inch spike in a park, and when she was writhing around in agony with a spike though her wellington boot, there were a lot of people in A&E who had experienced neither an accident nor an emergency. Those people did not know where to go, they chose not to go to the GP, the appropriate care was not signposted clearly enough, or the GP simply was not open. We need to address those pressures, and a seven-day service will help.

The proposal is part of our wider NHS reforms, which since 2010 have moved to bring patient decisions closer to patients. We need to provide services that patients want, rather than a Henry Ford one-size-fits-all approach—we need greater flexibility. We have largely moved away from that, so we need to continue the move towards a seven-day service and towards greater flexibility. A seven-day service fits in with people’s working practices, childcare and busy lives. There is also greater take-up of digital initiatives such as the NHS national information board, and people are being brought in to help support the greater use of technology.

Members have talked about the statistics on satisfaction with the NHS over the past few years. The Commonwealth Fund’s report in 2014—four years after the Conservative-led Government took over—showed that, according to the fund’s records, the NHS is the best-performing health service in 11 countries.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman has surely read the detail of that Commonwealth Fund report. Much of the data that were used data from the previous Labour Government.

[Paul Scully]

The hon. Gentleman will also find that the NHS improved over those years. We were second when the Labour Government were in power, so we have improved, and more data are still coming through. That is backed by public confidence, which has gone up by 5 percentage points to its second-highest level in the period covered by the report. The number of people in England who think that they are treated with dignity and respect increased from 63% in 2010 to 76% last year, according to Ipsos MORI. Record numbers say that their care is safe, and the number who think that the NHS is one of the best systems in the world has increased by 24 percentage points in the seven years since Mid Staffs. That is a great base from which to start, but we need to continue working with healthcare professionals to secure the seven-day NHS that we need and people want to see. Shouting and using the NHS as a political football will not get us very far.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mrs Gillan. We have had a good debate, and it is a pleasure to speak in it, for a number of reasons. This opportunity comes with a number of pressures. I note that this is the first debate relating to an e-petition under the new system. As the shadow teams are still being put together, I am not sure whether this will be my last outing as a shadow Health Minister or as a shadow Minister altogether, but patience is a virtue and time will tell.

It is a particular pleasure to respond to my good friend the Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones), who opened the debate. From my slightly partisan perspective as the shadow Health Minister, I thought she made a devastating critique of the Government’s record on the NHS. She will be an outstanding Chair of the Petitions Committee, which is, again, a parliamentary first. I declare an interest: in my first Parliament, from 2005 to 2010, I was a member of the Procedure Committee, and we looked at the practicalities of having a proper petitions facility and a petitions Committee to back that up in the House of Commons. The wheels of democracy take a long time to turn, but here we are 10 years later with the Petitions Committee, debating the first of the probably great number of petitions already lodged with the House of Commons. I welcome my hon. Friend to her post.

While I am making welcoming remarks, I welcome the promotion of my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) to the role of shadow Health Secretary today. She will be a doughty campaigner for the NHS in that role, as she has been for her constituency, not least because she cut her teeth on the Lewisham hospital issue.

I also pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), who has served diligently and excellently as the shadow Health Secretary for the past four years. I have been privileged to work under him. He has been committed to the national health service in his time as a Health Minister and as the Health Secretary, and in his time in opposition.

There was a need to adjust the terms of the debate to ensure that we addressed the issues and not the personalities, but we have all alluded to why we are here, what triggered the petition and the reasoning behind it. Government Members might want no challenge to their record and policies, but the fact is that while we agree on a large area of health policy—where we do, it is right that there is consensus—we will not avoid political debate just because it is uncomfortable for some Members. It is right that where the Opposition—whichever parties they may be—have differences of opinion with the Government of the day, we are able to raise them.

When it comes to the seven-day NHS, the Health Secretary has a habit of spinning the data to suit his purpose and to divert attention away from some of the Government’s failures on the NHS. Of all his public pronouncements since the election, the most controversial —indeed, it inspired many people to sign the petition—was his suggestion that NHS staff are avoiding working at the weekend. As we heard from the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford), that is just not the case, and she speaks with a vast amount of experience. Let me reiterate: it is not true, and we know it is not true.

I want to place on record my appreciation and thanks to all who work in our NHS: the consultants, the doctors, the nurses, the support staff and the ancillary staff. They do a tremendous, often thankless job under difficult circumstances. The deluge of social media users sharing photos of themselves working at the weekend on wards and in surgeries demonstrated just how absurd the Health Secretary’s claim was. Indeed, according to a series of freedom of information requests, only 1% of consultants in our health service actually opt out of weekend working.

The Health Secretary told consultants they needed to “get real”, but it is the Health Secretary who needs to get real. Rather than picking fights with hard-working NHS staff, he should be consulting them on the best way to deliver seven-day services. If the Government are serious about delivering further weekend care, they have to stop coming out with speculation and conjecture, and must urgently define what they want to deliver and how they plan to pay for it. Demonising doctors who are already working evenings and weekends will get us nowhere.

A seven-day NHS is the aim of all those who want the best health service in the world—I include myself among them—but to achieve one, we have to listen to those on the frontline and address their concerns. Staff are rightly worried about losing their antisocial hours pay, the effect of which could be devastating for huge numbers of assistants and nurses. Working at night is as expensive as shifts get, with transport and childcare being more expensive or totally unavailable, and all the evidence shows that night shifts have a detrimental effect on people’s health. It is only right that such shifts are appropriately compensated. I sincerely hope that the Minister, for whom I have a great deal of respect, will address that point in his reply.

We must not forget that the seven-day NHS pledge has been made many times before. It was in the 2010 Conservative manifesto. The Prime Minister repeated it in October 2013, and in September 2014, and of course it was also in the Conservatives’ 2015 election manifesto. The question I am pondering is: if they promised it before and failed to deliver it, why on earth should anyone believe them this time? We would all welcome a seven-day service, but that must be matched by the funding necessary to recruit, support and, importantly, retain hard-working NHS staff. We have already heard that there is a shortage of nurses; there are fewer nurses per head of the population than in 2009-10. The head of Health Education England, Ian Cumming, said earlier this year that

“GP recruitment is what keeps me awake at night.”

The scale of the recruitment crisis is startling even to those of us who have been following the fortunes of the two Health Secretaries since 2010. The coalition Government were wrong to cut training places as one of their first acts, and immigration policy is not joined up with the need for recruitment from abroad. If adequate numbers of staff are not being trained at home, the two polices do not make any sense together. As we have heard, retention is a big challenge; it is about not only the new staff coming through the system but the staff leaving at the other end.

My message to the Minister and the Health Secretary is this: if they want to deliver a seven-day NHS, we will work with them, but they will not achieve it by picking a fight with staff and, importantly, they will not achieve it unless it is properly funded. The Conservatives made many promises on the NHS before the election, many of which the Government have already dropped, and many more of which have not been funded. If the seven-day NHS promise is to be realised, I implore the Minister to work closely with the health service unions and actually go out and speak to the health professionals that keep our system going.

More broadly, we need a serious debate about how services are organised across the whole week, so that people can stay healthy in their own homes. The Minister and I have debated the concept of whole-person care on numerous occasions—in fact, we debated it at length both before and during the general election. There was a degree of consensus around the plans of my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh. We desperately need to make sure that all parts of our health and care service work together to ensure that care focuses on the individual.

It is no good Government Back Benchers lauding the ring fence for the NHS budget when, as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North, social care budgets have been ransacked. I should not need to remind Government Members, but the fact is that social care cuts are NHS cuts because of the pressure that they cause throughout the health system. Let us look carefully at the workforce issues that triggered the petition and this debate. Let us work with staff, because without them the NHS will not be transformed into that single health and social care service. For all of us who care about the NHS, ultimately that must be our goal.