Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Griffiths and Jo Swinson

Tuesday 1st May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffiths]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that very important question. I remember the Westminster Hall debate that she had on this issue. The Government are minded to protect the rights of the transgender community. She will know that I recently brought forward a statutory instrument to allow directors to remove their addresses from the Companies House register in order to protect safety. I would be delighted to work with her to see what we can do to provide greater protections for the transgender community in this area.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

The industrial strategy rightly sets out opportunities arising from the new technology and STEM—science, technology, engineering and maths—sectors but says little about the increasing importance of skills that are unique to human beings, such as care. Does the Secretary of State recognise that part of our answer to increasing automation should be expanding employment in the care sector and the value we attach to it? If so, will he start treating this as a strategic priority?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Griffiths and Jo Swinson

Thursday 29th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffiths]

My right hon. Friend is right: the Griffiths household is waiting with bated breath—it is days before the next Griffiths generation appears on the planet.

I thank my right hon. Friend for the advice that the Committee has given me since I have had ministerial responsibility for this issue. Discriminating against women in the workplace because they are pregnant or new mothers is unlawful, and the Government are determined to stamp it out. She raises the issue of NDAs, and that topical and serious matter is at the top of my agenda.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

rose—

[Jo Swinson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish the Minister well with his impending arrival. In addition to my obvious interest in this question, I remind the House of my former role as chair of the charity Maternity Action.

It is now two years since the Government published research by the Equality and Human Rights Commission that I commissioned as a Minister back in 2013. That research showed that one in 25 pregnant women felt forced to leave their jobs because health and safety risks are not addressed. It is more than time for concrete action to tackle that, so will the Minister bring forward legislation to give pregnant women a clear right to paid leave if their employer cannot, or will not, provide a safe working environment?

[Andrew Griffiths]

I thank the hon. Lady for her work in this area and wish her the best of luck with her impending arrival. Health and Safety Executive guidance helps employers to meet their health and safety obligations towards pregnant women and new mothers. Working with the Equality and Human Rights Commission, we have delivered several presentations to partnerships to share good practice, but she is absolutely right that we need to do more. I understand her point, and while I cannot commit to the request she makes today, we are certainly considering all options in this area.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Griffiths and Jo Swinson

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffiths]

I assure my hon. Friend that we absolutely and completely agree with fair pay. It is unacceptable that women who are doing the same job as men receive less pay. That must change. The BBC must act.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

Hardworking people on ordinary incomes are understandably angry at the way executive pay has skyrocketed at a time when ordinary wages have remained flat. When can we expect to see these regulations that the Minister is talking about on publication of pay ratios, and can he confirm that this requirement will be in place for companies by June, as promised?

[Andrew Griffiths]

I have to point out to the hon. Lady that she may have her figures wrong. CEO pay has fallen, not risen. This Government are keen to ensure that there is more accountability and transparency in relation to the pay of top executives. We want to give the shareholders of companies greater power and ensure that there is greater accountability to shareholders and to the workforce.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andrew Griffiths and Jo Swinson

Thursday 20th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

Although I share the hon. Lady’s desire for gender equality, I have to put her right on a couple of points. I am not the only woman in the Department: Baroness Neville-Rolfe plays an important role in the other place. The gender pay gap is falling and fell significantly in the figures announced only yesterday. That is good news, but of course more needs to be done. That is why we are ensuring that we support women in the workplace through initiatives such as “Think, Act, Report” and through our reforms of flexible working and shared parental leave. It is this Government who are introducing such initiatives, which her Government failed to do.

[Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con)]

T6. The decision of this House on Wednesday to vote to scrap the pub tie caused £350 million to be wiped off the share price of pub companies yesterday, and it continues to fall today. That of Punch Taverns in my constituency fell by 17% in one day. Jobs and businesses are at risk. What discussions is the Department having with those companies and what help is the Secretary of State offering? If he is not offering help, why not?

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Andrew Griffiths and Jo Swinson

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

We are proposing a power for the Secretary of State to introduce the market rent only option following a review that finds that tenants are not sufficiently protected by the system that we put in place. An important point that should reassure my hon. Friend is that we are creating a pubs code and putting a pubs code adjudicator on a statutory footing, so there will also be a significant individual who is independent, who is an expert and who has great experience of dealing with disputes. If cases go to arbitration, the adjudicator may be involved in investigations as well. The pubs code adjudicator will have a substantial amount of information at his or her disposal. We will not be in the situation that we have been in up to now, where it would be more difficult to assess the position. The adjudicator will enable us to make that assessment and to have an independent voice to set out what may need to happen further.

[Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady accept that, in an industry that employs thousands upon thousands of people and creates millions of pounds-worth of wealth for this country, there will be incredulity that amendments are to be made within hours of the Bill leaving this House? We have had four BIS Committee inquiries into this and years to discuss the issues, yet the Minister comes scrabbling to the Dispatch Box just a few hours before we are due to vote on the measure. How can that give the industry any confidence?

[Jo Swinson]

I regret the fact that my hon. Friend is disappointed, but he was often disappointed in the Public Bill Committee when we were not able to accept his amendments on a range of issues that, if taken together, would have undermined the purpose of the Bill. I know that he speaks up for his constituents and he represents one of the larger pub companies that has its base in his constituency, so I understand where he is coming from. His view of what needs to happen to address the problems and injustices in the industry is very different from that of many, and perhaps most, Members of Parliament. We want to make sure that we get the details right. We want to listen to the House. That is what a responsible Government do.

[Jo Swinson]

Yes, the hon. Gentleman was unchivalrous and I am not sure he rescued the situation with that intervention. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Business and Enterprise, who is my fellow Bill Minister, and I discuss these issues as the hon. Gentleman would expect, as we try to make sure that we give the right response to the concerns raised in Committee.

[Andrew Griffiths]

Will the Minister give way?

[Jo Swinson]

I would like to make a little progress, then I will give way to my hon. Friend.

We have set out in the Bill the parallel rent assessment process, which gives tenants the opportunity to request a parallel rent assessment so as to be able to ascertain—

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Swinson]

This is not the first intervention that my hon. Friend has made, and I am obviously happy to respond to it. The industry has made significant representations in writing and had the opportunity to contribute at the public evidence session, which is an excellent, fairly new innovation in this House from which we all benefited in Committee.

[Andrew Griffiths]

Will the Minister give way?

[Jo Swinson]

I would like to finish my answer to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) before I take another intervention.

In Committee, we had the opportunity to hear from and to have these discussions with the industry, as well as with campaign groups—we must recognise that both sides are important in this. Since then, written correspondence has taken place, to which I have responded to deal with some of the issues raised. Of course, as Minister, I will continue to do so.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

rose—

[Andrew Griffiths]

rose—

[Jo Swinson]

I give way to the hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), who has not yet intervened.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Swinson]

During the process of developing this legislation, there has been significant dialogue and consultation on the whole area through the formal consultation that Government held, to which we had the response earlier in the summer. I have met, through various round tables, members of companies that own pubs, family brewers, and tenants’ groups.

[Andrew Griffiths]

Will the Minister give way?

[Jo Swinson]

I am being asked to give way before I have finished responding to the previous intervention.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Griffiths]

I thank the Minister for giving way, because this is a very important issue. Investors will be looking at her statements today. This could affect the viability and the profitability of businesses, together with thousands of jobs. She has announced a brand-new element—the introduction of the free-of-tie option but with a two-year wait. Can she confirm whether she has spoken to a single member of the industry about the implications for their business of that two-year delay—to one person, yes or no?

[Jo Swinson]

I would like to correct the hon. Gentlemen’s characterisation of what is happening. He is saying that this is the market rent only option but with a two-year wait. To be absolutely accurate, it is a power for the Secretary of State to introduce the market rent only option after a period of two years if a review finds that that is necessary. That is not exactly the same thing. It is important to put that on the record.

Throughout this process, the Government have been engaging with companies and with individuals. The market rent only option was extensively covered and discussed within the consultation process. I have had very many such discussions with companies over the course of the past 18 months. As was put to us forcefully on various occasions, some large pub companies will not welcome this and are very opposed to it. At the same time, we recognise the issues that have been raised in successive BIS Committee reports about the tenants who are suffering and the need to do something about it. We think that our parallel rent assessment is a proportionate and sensible way forward that will deliver for tenants, but we are keen to make sure that if that does not happen we do not end up at this stage again; we need the ability to act swiftly to introduce a market rent only option.

Pub Companies

Debate between Andrew Griffiths and Jo Swinson

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)]

I thank all Members who have contributed to this afternoon’s debate. We have heard speeches from 18 Members and interventions from many more.

I particularly thank the Chair of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, the hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey), and his predecessor, the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff), for the work they have done on this issue over many years, which is a good example of the effectiveness of Select Committees working in a persistent, constructive and responsible way. Many other Members have campaigned on this issue for many years, including the hon. Members for Northampton South (Mr Binley) and for Easington (Grahame M. Morris), my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland), who made a typically powerful contribution to today’s debate and has done so much with the all-party save the pub group, and my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), who introduced a private Member’s Bill a couple of years ago. I also thank the many thousands of constituents up and down the country who have taken an interest in this issue, whether as landlords or, as the hon. Member for Bradford South (Mr Sutcliffe) put it, “practitioners” of pubs.

In what was a generally consensual debate, the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) proposed potential court action. I can reassure him that it is not necessary, because the Morning Advertiser corrected the article that had incorrectly attributed quotations to me. I can confirm to the House that I did not say that the self-regulatory approach was working.

Today we have heard stories from Members in all sorts of constituencies of publicans who have faced real injustice and unfairness—horror stories about rent hikes out of kilter with the market, about extra charges and add-ons that they did not know about when they signed up and about people who have been driven out of business. For me, one of the most shocking figures is the comparison between the incomes of tied lessees and of those publicans who are in non-tied leases. Almost half of tied lessees earn less than £15,000 a year. That is an astonishing figure, when we consider the long hours that people put into running their pubs, and the fact that that income is often shared by a couple. The figure for non-tied lessees earning less than £15,000 a year is 22%, or one in five. The Government will be acting on this, and I welcome the broad cross-party support for what we are doing.

We have heard some horror stories this afternoon, but there have also been some lighter notes in the debate. We have heard about pubs being the scene of a range of events. The hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) mentioned the “dragon”, Hilary Devey, working undercover in a pub. My hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) talked about being the first Cornish MP to pull a pint in her local pub. My hon. Friend the Member for Pendle (Andrew Stephenson) talked about the three shifts that he had done as a barman in his local pubs, and told the House about the Pendle beer festival. I understand that you also have a pub as a neighbour, Mr Deputy Speaker. We heard from the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) about the triumph of the Bridge End winning CAMRA pub of the year, and the hon. Member for Chesterfield told us about his drinking mineral water in his local pubs. Perhaps the most touching story was that of the romance and engagement of the hon. Member for Ashfield (Gloria De Piero).

The Chair of the Select Committee rightly said that what we are doing will not be a panacea, but it will help. Members raised a range of other issues, including the beer duty escalator, on which we had a debate in the House recently. That is a matter for the Chancellor, and I am sure that Treasury colleagues will be following this debate closely through Hansard.

[Andrew Griffiths]

rose—

[Jo Swinson]

I am sorry. Owing to the lack of time, I must press ahead with my summation.

A differential beer duty was suggested, but it would not be possible to introduce such a scheme on the basis of where alcohol was being sold. However, the Government have already acted on a differential duty in relation to the strength of beer. In October 2011, the duty on high-strength beer rose and the duty on low-strength beer fell. My hon. Friend the Member for Pendle made an important point about minimum pricing, which could help pubs to regain an advantage when competing against low-priced supermarket booze.

My hon. Friend the Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths) said that regulation might not be needed. That might not be a popular argument today, but I understand what he is saying. It is right that the Government should regulate only as a last resort, and that we should seek alternative solutions first. We have sought solutions, however. The industry was put on notice last year and, sadly, it has not delivered. My hon. Friend also mentioned his concern about a two-tier system. It is right that we should focus regulation on those with the greatest market power. That is proportionate because the evidence shows that the greatest problems are in that part of the industry.

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State mentioned, the consultation sets out that that regulation would relate to the six largest pub companies, with a threshold of 500 tied or tenanted properties. Those companies would be Punch, Enterprise, Marston’s, Greene King, Admiral and Star. Our consultation will listen to views on what the right definition and the threshold should be. I hear the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) that the threshold should be lower than 500. I encourage hon. Members who have a view on those issues to contribute to the consultation.

There has been much debate on the free-of-tie option this afternoon, and there are arguments on both sides. The hon. Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) said that the tie must go, but I believe that the beer tie can be important, especially for small family breweries such as those mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Heather Wheeler). Indeed, in January 2011, CAMRA stated:

“Without the right to tie pubs, the Family Brewers wouldn’t bring their beers to the bar. Closures amongst the smaller brewers would be inevitable. The tie is a viable way for them to run their pubs.”

The problem is not the tie, as such, but the abuse of the tie.