Energy Generation

Debate between Andrew George and Tom Greatrex

Wednesday 17th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[Tom Greatrex]

I am glad that I gave way, because the hon. Gentleman is right on that point. Significant time needs to be given to these matters, because a range of issues must be discussed, and this is just one. He has talked previously about other issues covered in aspects of the Energy Bill—not directly on this point—and I am sure that he would want to contribute. I hope that the Minister and the usual channels have heard his concern.

I have mentioned the other responsibilities of the new Energy Minister. The hon. Member for St Ives rightly focused on the business case, and the jobs and growth case, for the decarbonisation target, but there are other strong arguments. My hon. Friends the Members for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) and for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) made the climate arguments. There are also important security-of-supply arguments about why this is sensible.

The hon. Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert), the close geographical colleague of the hon. Member for St Ives, is sitting slightly apart from the rest of the Liberal Democrat Members today, and he is the only Liberal Democrat in the Chamber who had the opportunity to ensure that this target was in the Bill. We debated the matter in the Energy Bill Committee and he and another colleague chose not to vote for his party’s policy. I hope that the number of Liberal Democrats who are here this afternoon is indicative of the fact that those who are not encumbered by ministerial or Parliamentary Private Secretary posts will support that policy when the opportunity to support the cross-party amendment comes in due course, although their party’s policy was not in the manifesto, but was agreed at their party conference in October, when the Bill was under way and under discussion in pre-legislative scrutiny.

[Andrew George]

Neither was it in the Labour party manifesto. Rather than trading points, I want to speak on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert), because he cannot speak in this debate, and say that we should ensure that this agenda is shared across all parties. It is led, as the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) knows, by a Conservative Member. Although I cannot speak for the Conservatives, there is an economic agenda in favour of decarbonisation. That needs to be emphasised at this stage and we need cross-party consensus for it.

[Tom Greatrex]

The hon. Gentleman is right to make that point, as he did in his speech and as other hon. Members have. My remark about his colleague was just to make it clear to those who were not on the Energy Bill Committee that there was an opportunity to put that target in the legislation, but sadly it was missed. That could have been done, but those with the opportunity chose not to do so. I hope that, on reflection, we will get to a better position and a better decision on Report.

Members of the Energy Bill Committee have dealt with a number of similar issues that the hon. Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) touched on. He mentioned targets, including in other countries. I am sure that he is as aware as I am of the targets in Denmark—the 2035 target for all electricity and heating production to be fossil fuel free; in Austria, in relation to low-carbon energy by 2050; and in Germany, in relation to 50% of electricity generation in 2030.

It is not strictly accurate to suggest that there are not targets elsewhere in Europe and across the world, because those countries are seized of the growth and job opportunities that come with the imperative to decarbonise the power sector. Those of us on the Energy Bill Committee heard repeatedly—others will have heard this in subsequent letters—that business is seeking clarity of purpose beyond the scope of this Government and of this Parliament and the next, towards 2030.

My hon. Friend the Member for Brent North was right to address the levy control framework, but the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) was also right to mention the time it takes to make some of those decisions. There are serious, big decisions that have not yet been made, such as on the memorandums of understanding that have been signed on siting offshore wind fabrication facilities in the UK. Part of the reason why the final decision has not yet been taken on that is the fact that the global companies involved, which have to make a case to their international boards, are not convinced that they have the clarity to be able to say that there will be a market. The only way we will bring down the cost of offshore wind is by having scale, and the way to do that is through manufacturing. There are strong business threads throughout the debate.

Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)

Debate between Andrew George and Tom Greatrex

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tom Greatrex]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. When the Minister, as he is about to do, following the example of the Secretary of State, makes points about consumer bills and compares the £1 cost with the £1,345 for the average annual bill, which is 0.08%—less than a tenth of 1%—I think that the figures speak for themselves.

[Andrew George]

rose—

[Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con)]

rose—

[Tom Greatrex]

I am afraid I am going to make some progress, because I want to give the Minister time to respond.

The Government have endangered an industry in its very infancy and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn made clear, sent to the rest of industry a signal that is doing the UK a lot of damage. It suggests that we cannot rely on what the Government say because they will change their position with scant consultation, no planning and in an arbitrary way. As E.ON said only yesterday,

“this sort of action creates uncertainty for business, and will have a negative impact”.

The Minister has argued that there is a pressing need to reduce costs, that installation costs have fallen and that the subsidy must follow, and, despite the Secretary of State’s best attempt to muddy the waters earlier, no one argues with that—not the solar industry, not consumer organisations and not the Opposition. Indeed, it might take him six months to answer his correspondence, but, as he well knows, trade bodies have argued for months that there should be a sensible, structured reduction in the subsidy—not a jump off the landing, but a walk down the stairs.

The Government’s consultation states that installation costs have reduced by 30%, but it is no good the Minister getting to his feet and citing the cost of panels in isolation from other costs as a way of justifying the 70% figure from Bloomberg, because, if installation costs have reduced by 30%, why is the tariff being cut by 52% in one go? Perhaps, as he has claimed before, it is part of his cunning plan to cut energy bills, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) has made clear, that attempt will just not work.

[Andrew George]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Tom Greatrex]

I will make a little more progress and then I may be able to give way. I am conscious of the time and of the Minister needing to respond.

The important point is that the Government’s policy will also cost: it will cost some of the 25,000 jobs; it will cost some of the 3,000 businesses; and it will cost people’s confidence in the UK as a place to invest. It is shameful to pull the plug on one of the few industries providing growth and jobs, which are nowhere else in the economy, for the sake of £1 a year on a bill. It is short-sighted to put at risk 25,000 jobs and, thereby, reduce tax revenues and increase benefit payments for £1 a year. Throughout the country it will cost community projects, which are being cancelled, co-operative models that are being developed, social housing schemes and people’s sense of involvement in electricity generation in this country.

It would be unfair of me to suggest that the Minister, as much as he has united people in opposition to the policy, is without friends. He has a very supportive Secretary of State, with a burgeoning reputation for collegiate behaviour in government and loyalty to his colleagues. He is also known to dabble in Twitter, so I am sure he has made the Minister aware that there is, indeed, a SaveGregBarker Twitter feed. It has 18 followers, but perhaps it will have some more after today’s debate.

There are more than 18 of the Secretary of State’s hon. Friends who have expressed concern at his Department’s action on feed-in tariffs. However, some 24 Liberal Democrats have signed early-day motion 673, which states that

“the feed-in tariff scheme will provide much needed stability for the expansions of renewables up to…2013.”

[Andrew George]

The Labour motion before us turns on its penultimate line, which refers to “more measured proposals”. Members from all parts of the House want a more sustainable solution than the current one, but what are these “more measured proposals” and how they are going to be paid for?

[Tom Greatrex]

The hon. Gentleman, as a signatory to early-day motion 673, has expressed his concern about those issues, and I will go on to make a couple of remarks about what we need to do next, following his support for the motion before us and that of his colleagues who signed the early-day motion.

Indeed, the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Mr Leech), who is no longer in his place, was quoted on the Friends of the Earth website last week, saying:

“Solar has been the real success story...We can’t afford to jeopardise thousands of jobs by slashing the feed in tariff and creating uncertainty, giving the industry no time to adjust.”

The hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), a Minister no less, says on his website that he has concerns

“about the speed and level of the proposed changes for community size projects and I am therefore asking the Secretary of State to examine urgently the case for some flexibility”.

The Secretary of State’s own Parliamentary Private Secretary, the hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames), quoted in the Financial Times this morning, said that we should look at the German model of gradually reducing support rather than, as I described it earlier, jumping off the cliff.

If all those friends of the Secretary of State want to be friends to the Government—I understand their desire, however misguided, to support the Government—and if they want to get the Government to right their mistakes; if they want to repair some of the damage of the past few weeks; if they want a sustainable and sensible model for support going forward; if they want to walk down the stairs rather than jump off the landing; if, perhaps, they want to “SaveGregBarker”, they must vote for the motion this evening. They should look at the wording of the motion, which is about having a sustainable, sensible, gradual approach rather than making a sudden cut that is putting people, jobs and businesses in jeopardy and leaving consumers high and dry. Let us help rescue the Government from the mess that they have made for themselves, and support the motion this evening.