Regional Pay (NHS)

Debate between Andrew George and Geoffrey Cox

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con)]

It is never pleasant not to be in complete concurrence and happy harmony with one’s own Front Bench, but I hope the Minister will not ignore the fact that, despite voicing concern about the Government’s position, I strongly deplore the Labour party’s behaviour in taking a position that can only be described as cynically opportunistic. It is simply untenable for the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) to contend that he can, like Pontius Pilot, take his hands off the situation and wash them clean of what is going on in the NHS in the south-west today.

It is precisely the implementation of the freedoms granted under the right hon. Gentleman’s stewardship that these consortia are operating. He is in exactly the same position as the householder who opens the door to the burglar, and then complains when he walks in and burgles the property. He opened the door with his changes. It was his policy that introduced flexibilities, and to suggest that he was blind to the probability that trusts would exploit it by introducing differentials in pay up and down the length of the country is not merely naive but wilful irresponsibility and will be judged by people listening to this debate. The people in the low-wage areas I have the honour and privilege to represent will not be fooled by the Labour party’s position.

On the other hand, it is perfectly fair to say that the introduction of regional pay in the NHS would be a retrograde and wrong step. The fact is that low-wage areas, such as those I represent, are already suffering: 26% of families and homes in Torridge are on the edge of poverty. Only two constituencies in Cornwall, an area that receives special help in the form of objective 1 money from the EU, are in a worse position than those in Torridge and West Devon.

[Andrew George]

I represent one of those constituencies. In view of the hon. and learned Gentleman’s comments about the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) and his criticism of regional pay—a stand I entirely agree with—would he acknowledge that the Conservatives voted in favour of the legislation that brought in foundation trusts and flexibilities, and does he regret that? I recognise, of course, that he was not in the House at the time.

[Mr Cox]

I do not believe that any party can take its hands off and claim to be not responsible for measures that allowed trusts to exploit the ability to drive down pay by forming such consortia. The Labour party cannot disavow responsibility, and neither, if it voted for it, can the Conservative party.

I want to say something about regional pay. I hope and I am sure that the Minister is listening. I have already written to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. In areas such as Torridge and West Devon—areas that depend on public sector pay to create the spending and buying power that puts at least some life into its economy—the concept that pay could be even lower than it is now is unconscionable and inconceivable to those of us who represent them. I hope that the Government will think again in this review. I am comforted by the Secretary of State’s words when he says that they are committed to national pay scales. I hope that those words can be counted on.

I, for one, could not support a measure that introduced regional pay as formal NHS policy, unless I was satisfied that there were sufficient safeguards for the low-wage areas I represent. People often associate rural areas such as Torridge and West Devon with prosperity, but that is a grossly inaccurate caricature. In Torridge, 26% of households are on the edge of poverty, wages are in the bottom 5% of all areas in the country, and West Devon is not far behind. It is simply inconceivable for me, as its representative, to agree to a proposition that would further depress incomes in those areas.

Having said that, it is clear that the NHS has to do something about the pay bill, which is 70% of its budget, and the only appropriate way of dealing with it is for the unions and all parties, including all political parties, to tackle it at a national level. I am disturbed that those national negotiations are apparently not taking place. I hope that the right hon. Member for Leigh will encourage the unions to take part in those discussions, because we all have to accept that there is a major national problem with the burden of the NHS pay bill.

Independent Retailers

Debate between Andrew George and Geoffrey Cox

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Cox]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, to a large extent. The main issue that I have heard is that charity shops are selling new goods. More and more charity shops are setting up on the high street, and instead of selling the donated goods of many hundreds and thousands of well-wishers, they are selling a whole range of brand-new goods—often sports goods and clothing.

It is not hard to understand the chagrin, confusion, dismay and disappointment of a shopkeeper, selling the same product lines, on hearing that the charity shop next door has been given not only the mandatory 80% relief, but the other 20% that the local authority can give. The charity shop might, therefore, be paying no rates at all. Its waste is treated as commercial, but the private shopkeeper is unable to have their waste treated thus, and it would seem to the struggling shopkeeper—who, after all, will be here in many years and is supplying a vital service for the community, bringing about a sense of well-being and contributing to the local economy—that the playing field is not even.

I do not suggest, as the hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) noted, that we should be anti-charity-shop, but I do propose to the Minister that we need to look at a protocol for local authorities, which would allow them to consult local shopkeepers about the product lines that might be sold in a charity shop. Such consultation would help, but equally we need to look at whether charity shops that are selling brand-new goods should receive the rate relief that they currently do.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Does my hon. and learned Friend not also agree that on the non-regulatory side there are things that the Government could do, simply by using their influence? For example, there is the established practice of upward-only rent reviews, which informs the rates charged in town centres. I urge him to highlight that issue and, on the regulatory side, to ensure that the free parking from which out-of-town retailers benefit is properly valued, because of the consequences that it clearly has for their competitors in town. Free parking gives out-of-town retailers an enormous advantage, and that is not properly reflected in their rating levels.

[Mr Cox]

My hon. Friend has, with uncanny empathy, predicted my next set of points, although he did not express them with the same eloquence as I would have, and probably not the same passion. I shall, therefore, go on to make the points, and a few others besides.

Rents and rates are a vital issue for high street shops and independent retailers, and my hon. Friend makes a very powerful point about upward-only review clauses. I would welcome the Government’s investigation of that issue, because the Conservatives’ commission into small shops in the high street recommended that we examine it to see whether we could make inroads into the unfairness. I want, however, to come on to rates.

I hear about planning, rates and charity shops, and rates come up time and again when I talk to small businesses in my constituency. The system is byzantine; it is incomprehensible. Walking into a local business, I sometimes find that the pub or petrol forecourt, for example, has had its rates lifted by thousands of pounds in the past year or two. In 2009, there was a 5% rise for inflation. A transitional relief scheme came to an end, so shopkeepers and business people were hammered by large rate rises.

However, the small business rate relief has not kept pace. Many businesses that are regarded as small—we would all regard them as such—are no longer covered by the relief. I urge the Government to consider raising the threshold for that relief. The Government could, importantly, immediately and urgently, translate the Conservative manifesto commitment, with which I have no doubt my Liberal Democrat friends will agree, to make small business rate relief automatic. It should not depend on an application. The rate authorities are able to see whether a business complies with the conditions necessary for small business rate relief, so why do they not simply apply it?

I implore the Minister to lend impetus to our examination of this issue. If we can raise small business rate relief, increase its threshold and make it automatic, we will do a lot to cause a sigh of relief up and down high streets.