Postal Services in Scotland after 2014

Debate between Anas Sarwar and Mike Weir

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)]

I am pleased to appear under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Hood. I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson) on securing the debate. He made a speech that, by his standards, was encompassing; I could agree with most of what he said until, tragically, he veered off towards the end.

According to Project Fear in Scotland, we might imagine that from the day after independence, Postman Pat will be leading a convoy of little red vans, making a break for the border. That is utterly ludicrous. The assets of the mail service—the pillar boxes, the sorting offices and equipment, the vehicles and, above all, the hard-working and magnificent staff of Royal Mail—will still be in place and will continue, whatever the ownership structure.

The first point to make is that none of us can know for certain what Royal Mail will look like either in 2014 or on independence day in 2016. It is being privatised by the Government; the Scottish National party will fight privatisation, as we have always fought it, even when the Labour party proposed it. If we are unsuccessful, however, we will have to deal with the position that we find on independence. The only protection that the consumer will have, if the privatisation goes ahead, is from the regulator, Ofcom, which should not give any of us comfort.

The hon. Member for Glasgow South West discussed the universal service obligation, and I share his concern. Under the Postal Services Act 2011, Royal Mail is obliged to continue a universal service and is the only one to fund it. The Communication Workers Union has already expressed concerns that Ofcom is allowing trials of end-to-end deliveries from other operators, which will inevitably lead to the cherry-picking of profitable routes in urban areas and the inevitable pressures that that will put on rural and less affluent areas. That is a problem not only for Scotland, but for all areas of the United Kingdom.

What protection does the consumer have for the universal service obligation? Last year, Ofcom decided that price caps should be removed from all Royal Mail products apart from second-class mail. As a result, the only truly universal service is second-class mail. First-class mail could be priced out of the reach of many people, and already our stamp price is one of the highest in Europe. Just how many people and, crucially, small businesses will send mail first class?

None of that is the result of Scottish independence—that is happening now, under the United Kingdom Government and as part of the United Kingdom postal service, even before it is flogged off to a private operator. The Scottish Government have given a clear commitment that, with independence, Scotland will at the very least match the current terms of the universal service obligation.

[Anas Sarwar]

Will the hon. Gentleman guarantee that the Scottish Government’s White Paper will set out in detail how postal services would operate in an independent Scotland? Will a full costing be attached?

[Mr Weir]

The Scottish Government will set out their plans. The hon. Gentleman asks us to do that, even though his party is trying to form a Government in 2015 and yet will not tell us what Labour will do with the postal service, because the manifesto is still being written.

We are told that the highlands and islands could get higher charges. Have Members who say that read the Postal Services Act 2011, because that is already possible under the present system? Indeed, Royal Mail has already tried to introduce zonal pricing in some areas. Nothing prevents Royal Mail or its new private owners from introducing zonal pricing in any service, other than the universal service, which, as I have already explained, could be nothing more than the second-class service.

I took the matter up with Ofcom, which wrote to confirm to me:

“Ofcom does not have any powers to restrict Royal Mail from introducing this pricing variation related to user location, as the Postal Services Act 2011 limits our regulatory powers to universal services and access”.

That comes from the horse’s mouth. Members might think that I am the only one to think this, but the Communication Workers Union made exactly the same point.

Section 43 of the 2011 Act allows Ofcom to review the USO and to recommend, among other things, a review of the minimum requirements. It could reduce what is covered by the USO. That is not the future that we want in Scotland. Royal Mail should be a public service, and if it has not been fully privatised before independence, we will stop the process in Scotland. We have never accepted the mantra of successive Labour and Tory Governments that Royal Mail must be looked at as merely another business. It is an integral part of the country’s infrastructure and will be treated as such in an independent Scotland. Indeed, the postal operator must be recognised as an economic driver, especially in rural areas, and not as a drain on the economy in competition for the resources needed for schools and hospitals, which is how it is so often portrayed by the present UK Government.

An old claim is that somehow postal charges between Scotland and England will increase, but Members should be aware that postal charges are co-ordinated through the Universal Postal Union. Letters and packages that start with one designated postal operator can be passed to other postal operators in other countries, and they take responsibility for forwarding them. Under the universal postal convention, there is an obligation on each country to ensure that such items are quickly delivered on the same terms and conditions as its internal mail.

There is absolutely no reason why costs should increase in Scotland. The Scottish postal service will decide the cost of postage in Scotland and to other destinations. In Ireland, the Republic has an all-Ireland price, and there is no reason why something similar cannot operate in Scotland. It would become a member of the UPU, as have other countries that have gained independence.

The Economy

Debate between Anas Sarwar and Mike Weir

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

Can the hon. Gentleman confirm whether the capital housing budget has been increased or decreased under the Scottish Government?

[Mr Weir]

The Scottish Government have been putting more and more money into capital investment. [Interruption.] It has not been decreasing. They have been putting money into capital investments that matter, despite the overall budget from Westminster having been cut.

The Scottish Government have been taking the action that the former Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling), called for earlier. In June, they announced a £105 million package of investment for so-called shovel-ready projects. Conventional capital investment has been boosted by a £2.5 billion pipeline of infrastructure projects that is being delivered through the non-profit distributing model. The Scottish Government recognised long before the current Chancellor did that the model of private participation in infrastructure was fundamentally flawed, although Labour does not seem to have cottoned on to that yet. A total of £700 million has been switched from the resource to the capital budget to support capital investment. The Scottish Government are supporting a range of innovative finance initiatives such as the National Housing Trust.

It appears from what he said this afternoon that even the former Chancellor has changed his original views and now supports the increase in capital expenditure on infrastructure, although that has not prevented his Labour colleagues in Scotland from continually attacking it; such is the way of politics, I suppose. Indeed, their leader has announced a cuts commission—an initiative whose only backers appear to be their friends in the Better Together campaign, the Conservatives.

[Mr Weir]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The Conservatives in Scotland have also supported the cuts commission, so it appears that they are all cutters together rather than better together.

The SNP Government in Scotland have been very active in ensuring that we rebalance our economy with investment in new green initiatives. The Government down here often talk about that, but we have seen little evidence of it. Indeed, the proposals in the Energy Bill give cause for concern about the way in which this Government look at green investment and whether there is to be investment in new green energy or whether the Treasury is winning the battle and we are going down a different route.

This is important to Scotland because the renewables industries now support more than 11,000 jobs in Scotland, and that figure is growing. There have been significant investments in green energy. Gamesa chose Leith for its new UK offshore wind manufacturing plant, which will create up to 800 jobs. Burcote Wind has announced plans for a £l billion investment creating up to 600 new jobs. Global Energy Group has announced that Nigg skills academy will deliver training for up to 3,000 people over three years. Scottish Power has announced the creation of 300 skilled jobs as part of a £5 billion investment in Scotland’s grid, and it is also investing £6.5 million in grass-roots skills development.

[Anas Sarwar]

The hon. Gentleman is talking about all this fantastic new investment which is happening in Scotland within the United Kingdom. Would that still be the case if Scotland were an independent country? What would corporation tax be in an independent country—20%, 15%, or the current level?

[Mr Weir]

The hon. Gentleman cannot tell me what corporation tax will be here next year, never mind what it will be in Scotland in a few years’ time. This investment is taking place. He and his party keep saying that the referendum is causing uncertainty, but all this investment is coming in now. People are investing in Scotland despite the scaremongering from the Labour party. I ask him to consider this: the real barrier to investment in the UK is not uncertainty about a referendum in Scotland but uncertainty about the referendum on Europe that Government Members and increasingly people in his party are pushing for.

[Anas Sarwar]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Weir]

No, I have already given way enough.

There is uncertainty in politics and uncertainty on Europe, but in Scotland we are pressing ahead. Despite all the scaremongering from Better Together, investment is still going on. Most recently, Areva announced a substantial investment in wind. Beyond renewables, Diageo has made significant investments in the whisky industry. A great deal of investment is going on. They are coming to Scotland because it is a good place to do business and because it has a Government who are pushing forward and taking the steps necessary to create an environment to build up an economy that makes sure that there is work, that puts money into local firms and local economies and that puts people back in work. Those are the important things that people care about and that is what the Scottish Government are doing—that is why they are so successful—rather than following the austerity model, which seems to be the only thing that this House can talk about.

That has all been done with the limited powers of devolution and without the key economic levers of power that would allow the Scottish Government to do even more. That will change when Scotland votes for independence in 2014 and we will unlock the real opportunities to build a better Scotland, rather than be locked into the austerity agenda of the UK parties.

Scotland and the Union

Debate between Anas Sarwar and Mike Weir

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Weir]

The hon. Gentleman is making his points as he always does, but does he not accept that it is up to the people of Scotland whom they vote into power after independence, and that it is up to them to decide how the shape of the new Scotland develops? Surely he accepts that the people will decide that in the first election after we win independence in 2014.

[Anas Sarwar]

The people of Scotland have an opportunity, through strengthened devolution, to have more of a say in decisions on their lives made in the Scottish Parliament and in local government, which has taken a hammering under the current Scottish Government. They can recognise that although there is nowhere better than Scotland, there is somewhere bigger, and that is working in partnership with the UK and global agencies to take on the challenges.

Scottish Separation

Debate between Anas Sarwar and Mike Weir

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. Having known you through Glasgow politics, I will be very strict with my time; I do not want to incur your wrath. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) on securing the debate. The discussion today shows the passion and energy in the debate. I will take this opportunity to get to the facts of what Scotland would look like if it was a separate country.

I want to make a few quick points at the outset. The referendum is not about whether we think Scotland can survive; of course Scotland can survive as an independent country. It insults the intelligence of the Scottish people to suggest that it could not survive as an independent country. The choice on the ballot paper is not one of survival; it is whether we believe that Scotland is a fairer, more prosperous place as part of the UK or as a separate country. I believe the second, which is why I will make a positive case for Scotland remaining within the UK.

Scotland has played a key role in the success that is the UK. We have 300 years of shared history, security and prosperity. A Scot was the founder of the Bank of England, a Welshman created our national health service and an Englishman created our welfare state. Those are things of which we should be collectively proud, and that is why, in the run-up to the referendum, we will make the emotional, political, social and economic case for Scotland remaining part of the UK.

I want to touch on one point about the positive-negative case. It is often said that those who support the UK are negative about Scotland and those who support separation are positive about it. I argue the opposite. The people of Scotland are talented enough, creative enough, ambitious enough and innovative enough to be successful in the UK. It is for the separatists to tell us why they think that Scots are not.

We heard from the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), the successor to Alex Salmond, that a single-question referendum is her preference, so let us stop the games and get on with the substantive arguments. Another SNP Member is here, the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir), and I am willing to take an intervention if he can tell us whether, if he put in a submission to the Scottish Government’s consultation, it was for one question or two. I am happy to take an intervention if he wishes.

[Mr Weir]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, but if he had listened when I intervened on the hon. Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) he would have heard that my preference was for one question.

[Anas Sarwar]

There we have it: two SNP MPs saying that they have put in submissions, both saying that they would prefer one question. Perhaps they could get on the phone to their leader and pass on the message that he should stop being so feart and just get on with the referendum and let Scots make the choice.

I have one minute on the substantives of the economic debate, so I will be very quick. I genuinely believe that Scotland’s influence is greater as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council and NATO, not for prestige, but to fight tyranny and repression around the world. We benefit from membership of the G8, where a Scottish leader, as Prime Minister of the UK, tackled the global economic crisis to stop a recession becoming a depression.

Scotland’s compassion is better demonstrated by being a partner in the Department for International Development, which is headquartered in Scotland, employing 490 people, with a budget of £7 billion. What would happen to those jobs if we were a separate country? We benefit from shared infrastructure, defence and foreign affairs, as does shipbuilding on the Clyde and jobs. We would not be in that position if we were a separate country.

We benefit from sharing the risks and rewards. We saw the collective strength of the UK in bailing out Scotland’s banks. Would that have been possible if we were a separate country? We benefit from the fact that we are a larger single market—our current biggest business partner is England. If we became a separate country, it would become our biggest competitor. We also benefit from being part of the strongest monetary union in history. Leaving would mean that we would have to have our own currency, join a weaker euro or leave a foreign country to set our interest rates and our borrowing and spending limits.

I could go on and on, but I see you, Mr Robertson, nodding at me to finish. Let us end the games about what a referendum will look like and get on with the big choice and have the debate. After the referendum, let us get on with making Scotland a fairer and more prosperous place.