BBC (Parliamentary Oversight)

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[David Morris]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I would like to see a meeting that takes place once a month, just to discuss the mechanisms of the BBC itself. I believe that what is already there is helpful but it is not actually accountable, and accountability is what I would like to see. I thank my hon. Friend also for all his hard work as the chairman of the all-party BBC group.

Similarly, I want people to understand fully how the BBC works and to feel engaged with the process. I should say at this stage that my proposals would not put politicians in charge of the BBC; that is the last thing that I want to see. I have no desire for Parliament to be in editorial control. In fact, I have spent a great deal of time thinking of practical measures that would bring openness and oversight without censorship and control.

I also note that my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) introduced a ten-minute rule Bill on 21 November demanding that the BBC publish all spending over £500. That is an excellent idea and I firmly believe that it should be implemented. All local authorities now publish their spending, and the cost of doing that has been minimal. Most local authorities began publishing spending details long before they were forced to by the Government, so why should the BBC wait for legislation on this issue? It should publish this information now. I am sure that if it did so, my hon. Friend would feel not that the BBC had stolen his thunder but rather that it had done the right thing without the need for legislation. Such a move would create greater transparency with little more than the stroke of a pen. Why should the BBC be afraid of the public seeing this information?

I also believe that, as part of disclosure, the BBC should publish all salaries over £100,000, giving the public the ability to debate those salaries and judge whether they represent good value for money. One example is the high salary of Mark Thompson, the former director-general. In his final year of employment with the BBC, he was paid £671,000. We are told that he was paid that amount because his job was a difficult one, and I am sure that it is. But is it five times harder than being Prime Minister, or three times more challenging than being the President of the United States? I am not convinced that it is, but in any case if all these salaries are published the public can decide. After all, this money is not the BBC’s money but taxpayers’ money, and we have a duty to let them know how it is spent.

As I said at the outset, 2012 has been a disaster for the British media. Many terrible allegations have been made. However, let us not just lament those problems; let us move on. This period of public interest is a real opportunity for change. The BBC refers to itself as “Auntie”—a lovable and dependable figure—but its trusted status cannot be boundless.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for proposing this debate and I congratulate him on securing it. Does he accept that the BBC has a great opportunity to make itself as open and transparent as so many other public bodies, which would send a strong message of good will and of doing the right thing in very difficult circumstances? Does he also agree that we need not wait either for any legislative changes or for any of the conclusions of the BBC’s internal report? As a strong friend and fan of the BBC, I must say that opening up would simply be doing the right thing.

[David Morris]

I thank my hon. Friend for expressing those sentiments. Actually, I was right at the end of my speech, and I am thankful to him for making his intervention because I could not have put what he just said more eloquently than he did. I commend him for that.

I think we all agree that the BBC has a position of trust and that it must be managed responsibly. As such, I hope that the BBC will welcome my proposals.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey)]

Thank you, Mr Hood, for calling me to speak. It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship for the second time today.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) on securing this debate, and I thank him for providing the House with an opportunity to discuss—albeit briefly—parliamentary oversight of the BBC. I think that he only came in for the tail-end of the previous debate on local newspapers, in which I also spoke for the Government, so he may not get it when I say that I have not had time to look him up in his local newspaper on my tablet. However, I am sure that he would not miss an opportunity at some point to praise the work of his own local newspaper.

My hon. Friend made a valid and well judged speech, and he made it clear that there is almost universal support for the BBC in the House, and indeed in the country. However, that does not prevent anyone—particularly MPs—from bringing forward their concerns regarding the BBC, particularly about the oversight and scrutiny of the BBC and how it operates.

The BBC is a hugely important global institution, and its value to the UK not only as a content creator of the highest calibre but as a promoter of the UK’s values and culture cannot and should not be underestimated. In the context of recent events, which I will come to in a minute, it would be all too easy to forget the positive impact that the BBC has on a daily basis. For example, the BBC World Service, the world’s largest international broadcaster, provides services in 27 languages to about 180 million people worldwide, and the service’s future has been secured by its funding being incorporated within the BBC’s licence fee settlement.

[Alun Cairns]

I pay tribute to the Minister’s work in supporting and scrutinising the BBC. He has rightly highlighted the World Service’s excellent work. I see it as a positive step that funding for the service has been transferred from the Foreign Office to the BBC, but does the Minister agree that the situation is now somewhat inequitable, because when the funding was with the Foreign Office the National Audit Office had unrestricted access to the accounts but now the BBC Trust has to agree to the auditing of various elements of the service?

[Mr Vaizey]

It is important that the BBC World Service has an element of independence from Government, so the move was the right one to make. In addition, savings can be found by combining the budgets for domestic radio and the work of the World Service, for example in relation to the use of equipment and technicians. It was the right move in that it provided an effective settlement for the World Service at a time of economic austerity, but I hear my hon. Friend’s point about the National Audit Office and I will turn to that issue later—it comes up time and again.

I want to make clear this Government’s firm commitment to the long-standing principle, which is of the utmost importance, that the BBC must be independent of Government and of political intervention. The political independence of the media is a live subject both in the House and outside, so it is important to reiterate that principle. The political independence of all media is key to any healthy democracy, and the Government must always ensure that such independence is secured and, where possible, strengthened. Independence, however, does not mean that the BBC, or indeed any broadcaster, should be unaccountable for its actions. Because of the unique way in which it is funded and owned, the BBC should be accountable, and primarily to licence fee payers.

I shall put that remark in context. The BBC is a public corporation established by a royal charter and framework agreement, which sets out the role, responsibilities and governance of the BBC. Within the framework of that charter and agreement, the BBC is editorially and operationally independent of Government and, rightly, there is no provision for the Government to intervene in the BBC’s day-to-day activities.

The current BBC charter gives responsibility for the governance of the BBC to the BBC Trust. The duties of the trust, as enshrined in the charter, include representing licence fee payers, ensuring that the independence of the BBC is maintained and assessing the views of licence fee payers. We believe that those principles, alongside the others set out in the charter and agreement, provide a strong, open and transparent framework of accountability to licence fee payers.

We have recently reinforced the oversight of the BBC. During the last licence fee settlement we introduced new mechanisms to further strengthen the BBC’s financial accountability, and the National Audit Office is now empowered to conduct a value-for-money review of the BBC. We understand the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns). It is important that the National Audit Office works with the BBC, but it does have access to the BBC’s finances.