Oil and Gas

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Tuesday 24th March 2026 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

Some of the broad themes of the topics that we are discussing today are very important. How do we drive down bills at a time when all our constituents will be worried about the cost of living? How do we provide energy security for our country at a time when the volatility of oil and gas around the world is driving real concerns—not just for our communities, but for some of the big businesses and industrial bases on which we have relied for generations? And, crucially, how do we ensure that when we go back to our constituencies and look not just the current generations but future generations in the eye, we know we have done everything we can to finally take the existential threat of climate change seriously, having done far too little over the last decade to ensure that we are on the right track when it comes to living up to our environmental commitments? It is against that backdrop that I am disappointed by our focus on such a distracting topic today.

There are big, big questions to be asked about how we can drive forward the energy transition in the best and most just way possible, but I am afraid that focusing on immaterial discussions about very small—fractional—differences in the amount of oil and gas that we end up extracting from the North sea is a wrongheaded and at best distracting way in which to lead this debate. However, I understand why such a distraction is attractive to the Opposition.

[Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)]

Does the hon. Member think that this is a minuscule, distracting issue for the tens of thousands of workers who have lost their jobs because of the policies of this Government on this very subject?

[Alistair Strathern]

Not at all. I think that that is why the last Government’s shameful failure to invest in the transition—their failure, in fact, to do much to create a better offer for the 50% of North sea oil and gas workers who lost their jobs over the last decade—is so shocking. It is why we have to do better; it is why investing in the reshoring of manufacturing around green energy supply chains is so important; it is about thinking creatively about how we can be more activist as a state in shaping the job opportunities of the future; and, yes, it is about ensuring that support packages are in place at the right times. But if we are talking about a just transition for North sea oil and gas, I do not think the record of the hon. Gentleman’s Government is anything that we should be looking to learn from.

[Mr Snowden]

rose—

[Alistair Strathern]

I am going to make some progress.

I can see, though, why distractions are so attractive to the Conservatives, because facing up to reality would mean facing up to the failure to deliver more on renewables, which we know would have reduced prices by about a third last year.

[Graham Stuart]

Does the hon. Gentleman realise—he may not, because I know that some of the stuff he is fed by those on the Government Front Bench may not help him—that whereas only 6.5% of electricity came from renewables in 2010, the proportion was over 50% when we left power? He can criticise the Conservative Government all he likes, but suggesting that one of the greatest transformations and moves to renewables by any country in the history of the world was some kind of non-event is to mislead the House, and I know that the hon. Gentleman, who is an honourable man, would never seek to do that.

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[Alistair Strathern]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his confirmation that his party used to believe in the future once, but when it comes to clean energy, I think the fact that we have been able to make so much further progress so quickly shows that there clearly were things that the last Government could have done but did not. Whether we are talking about a failure to crack on with new nuclear at speed and remove those regulatory barriers, about a failure to consider the levy reforms that we have already introduced to deliver tangible reductions in people’s bills this April, or about a failure to think about creative ways in which we can drive down energy demand for households across the UK through a proper warm homes plan rather than exploitative rip-offs delivered by con merchants under their eco-schemes, I think we have far better answers of which we can be proud.

It is disappointing that we have not had a more sincere debate on this issue today, because I think there are important questions, which are worthy of challenge, about how we can deliver this transition in a way that truly delivers on our climate and energy communities and for all those who paying bills at the moment. The Fingleton review points to some important principles showing how we can do far better when it comes to big energy projects. I would welcome further scrutiny from the Opposition on that, and on how we can deliver it at pace to make really impactful changes in a nuclear landscape that was left stalled and in stasis under their policies.

As we look to drive forward the green transition, it is right that, over time, we remove the role of gas in setting the price of power, and there are regulatory reforms that we could be making now to try and improve the position. There is some interesting analysis from Stonehaven showing how bringing gas power plants into the regulated asset base could do a far better job of stabilising prices, and would produce a better result for consumers and, crucially, businesses and industrial users. There is also more work to be done to continue the Secretary of State’s leadership on auction innovation. In the last auction, innovations that we introduced after years of lack of reform meant that we were able to lean in at an opportune moment to expand the amount of power that we were able to purchase when prices were lower than market expectations.

I know the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for East Surrey, thinks that that insurance policy was not valid, which I think is a particularly challenging position to take at a time when we are seeing the cost of inaction shooting up under oil and gas. [Interruption.] I would welcome further challenges from the right hon. Lady about how we could innovate further. I know that the last Government’s record did not do a very good job of bringing out the best value when it came to auction design, but this is exactly the type of area in which cross-party challenge should be welcomed to ensure we can continue to do better. Instead, we are focusing on distractions that will do nothing for our constituents and that, sadly, do not prompt the very important questions, such as those posed by my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell), on how we can better ensure that where we need to continue to rely on gas power, we direct it towards sectors that this country has long depended on.

It is a sad truth that this debate has not lived up to the importance of the topic that we are discussing today. The Conservatives used to believe in the future. It is sad that they do not any more.

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[Robbie Moore]

Well, it has not been built yet. The proposal will come before the Energy Secretary, because he removed the onshore wind farm moratorium that the Conservative Government put in place. This is a development that I am staunchly opposed to. Why? It is because it is due to be built on precious peatland, which in a good year has a millimetre of growth. Despite that, the application coming before us is for a wind farm development, with deep foundations, on protected peatland. Road infrastructure is going to be built, wiring infrastructure is going to be built, and there will be consequences for flooding in neighbouring constituencies. I am staunchly against the project, which is why I cannot for the life of me understand why this Labour Government, alongside the Green party, are determined to roll out renewable energy schemes that have a hugely detrimental impact on our environment.

The Calderdale wind farm will have a hugely negative impact not only on our environment, our biodiversity and our precious peatland, but on the historic landscape in which it will be built. I do not know whether you have watched “Wuthering Heights” yet, Madam Deputy Speaker, but the proposed wind farm will be built on Brontë country. The Labour Government churn out this narrative of the green transition, but communities and environments such as those neighbouring my constituency are going to be negatively impacted.

[Alistair Strathern]

I understand that the wind farm that the hon. Gentleman is talking about would generate about a quarter of a million houses’ worth of energy every year. Given that his party is currently saying that the failure to approve an oil site, which would deliver power for 1.5 million homes throughout the entirety of its lifespan, is an existential risk for this country’s energy security, can he not see the slight inconsistency in the argument he is advancing?

[Robbie Moore]

The narrative that continues to come from those on the Government Benches is that we must have a roll-out of more renewable energy, without necessarily looking at the negative consequences on the environment. A development of the size that is being proposed on the outskirts of my constituency will not be carbon neutral, given the amount of energy that is needed to build the wind turbines and the negative impact on the carbon sequestration of the peatland. That is why I am firmly opposed to the Calderdale wind farm, and I 100% back the motion before this House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alistair Strathern]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that his party is also proposing a big tax cut for oil and gas companies in the removal of the EPL. He will have seen research from Oxford University suggesting that even if every new licence were taxed and that revenue was invested straight into energy subsidies, it could reduce bills by as little as £16 a year for households. Is that really the Tories’ ambition at the moment?

[Gregory Stafford]

I understand that the figure is £25 billion, which is a significant injection into the Treasury however we look at it. The simple truth is this: if we increase domestic supply, we can ease pressure on prices, reduce reliance on expensive imported LNG and cut costs. That is not ideology—it is basic economics.

The idea that new licences would take too long does not survive scrutiny either. Much of the North sea’s infrastructure already exists. Pipelines and platforms have spare capacity. New fields can be tied into existing systems, accelerating production and reducing cost. What Labour presents as inevitability is in fact a political choice. In the non-statement the Chancellor made earlier today, she talked about cutting red tape. Perhaps she should think about cutting Red Ed first of all, because this choice has consequences.

The ban on new licences risks leaving 2.9 billion barrels of oil and gas in the ground and puts at risk 200,000 jobs. Those are not abstract numbers. They are skilled, well-paid jobs that have powered communities for generations. This is not transition; it is industrial retreat.

Climate Change

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Thursday 19th March 2026 Commons Chamber

[Luke Murphy]

I fully agree with the hon. Member. I will say more about the impact on future generations later, but as she says, the burden will weigh heaviest on them if we do not take action today.

In my constituency of Basingstoke, we have already seen the reality of our changing climate, with more than 500 heat-related deaths in the south-east in 2022 alone. In 2023, extreme weather caused a landslip that severed our town’s rail connectivity for days, and in 2024, the south-east NHS saw a 13% increase in emergency hospital admissions for a respiratory condition linked to rising temperatures. Climate change is already affecting our health, our infrastructure and our economy, placing immense pressure on the public services we rely on. That is before we even consider the other serious economic risks posed by climate change.

The Climate Change Committee estimates that unchecked climate change could impact UK economic output by up to 7% of GDP by 2050. Businesses and investors already recognise that climate risk is economic risk, and small businesses are already feeling the impact. Shops on Pontypridd high street in Wales are finding it impossible to get insurance; flooding in Yorkshire and Cumbria is disrupting national supply chains; and whisky distilleries in Scotland face water scarcity. Failure to manage these challenges today will only increase costs and disruption later.

Climate change is also a critical matter of national security. For decades, and notably in the Pentagon’s 2014 quadrennial defence review, security experts have identified climate change as a major threat multiplier—it drives instability, heightens resource pressures and accelerates displacement. The Ministry of Defence’s 2021 “Climate Change and Sustainability Strategic Approach” document warns that climate change increases the risk of conflict through competition for scarce resources and undermines military effectiveness.

Then there is the impact on nature and our wider environment. There are those who try to separate the issues of climate and nature—the Reform party, for example, claims to care about nature while planning to tear up legislation, policies and investments to tackle climate change—but this is a false choice. Climate change is inseparable from the health of our wider environment; the stability of our forests, rivers, soils and seas is inextricably linked to our climate. As temperatures rise, we see damage to biodiversity and agriculture. The Government’s own nature security assessment warns that on our current trajectory, every critical ecosystem across all regions is heading towards collapse. Nature also plays a crucial role in safeguarding us. Our forests and wetlands absorb carbon; chalk streams, like the beautiful ones we have in Hampshire, support drainage; and urban trees help cool our temperatures. Protecting the climate and restoring nature must go hand in hand, as the resilience of one depends on the health of the other.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

As always, my hon. Friend is making a powerful case about the breadth of issues that underline why it is so important that we act on climate change. It is often seen as a future issue, but my farmers are feeling the effects of volatile weather right now, just as some of my households felt the effects of rare flooding just last year. Does my hon. Friend agree that the land use framework published yesterday will be a really important document for ensuring we get adaptation and mitigation strategies right when it comes to protecting nature, as well as delivering the carbon reduction goals that are vital to ensuring we get our climate change action back on track?

[Luke Murphy]

I completely agree. If my hon. Friend will forgive the pun, the land use framework is a landmark document. It reflects the Government’s acknowledgement that the public understand many of the threats that we face and want to see climate action. Polling shows that 70% of the British public say that tackling climate change is important to them, with more than two thirds supporting ambitious action. For years, there was a broad cross-party political consensus on such measures. That consensus stretches back all the way to Margaret Thatcher, who said:

“The problem of global climate change is one that affects us all”.

That consensus delivered. We implemented the world’s first Climate Change Act in 2008 under Gordon Brown, and built on it under Theresa May. In 2015, we announced that we would phase out coal by 2025, which was brought forward to 2024. With the closure of Ratcliffe-on-Soar power station, the target was met. Domestically, we have more than halved our emissions since 1990 while growing our economy by nearly 80%. Clean energy drives economic growth, with the clean economy growing three times as fast as the rest of the economy.

Our leadership has secured action around the world. The Climate Change Act 2008 inspired nations such as Denmark, Mexico, Sweden, France, New Zealand, Ireland and Germany to adopt similar measures, and has contributed to reductions in emissions around the world. Successive Governments have shaped the global agenda, but that leadership is now at risk. The current leader of the Conservative party, the right hon. Member for North West Essex (Mrs Badenoch), would scrap the vital Climate Change Act, as would Reform, sacrificing the health of our environment, economy and society at home, and Britain’s global climate leadership and action abroad. Such action is reckless.

We have the capacity to drive meaningful progress at home and abroad, and we must continue to exercise our leadership. I was really proud to hear the Prime Minister say at COP30 that the UK is doubling down on the fight against climate change, and I am pleased that that commitment has been met by decisive action over the past 20 months

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[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Luke Murphy) on securing the debate. As far as I am concerned, we should debate this all day, every day, because the message needs to be heard loud and clear out there. Those who want to delay climate action are denying our children and grandchildren a future. They should be honest about their intentions and reasons for saying what they do. I will speak about three broad areas: science and the very real threat now and in the future; the myths and misinformation peddled by opponents of action; and the benefits of taking climate action, which my hon. Friend set out very well indeed.

I turn to the science on climate breakdown. We see the impact now, with heatwave days in the UK over the last few years, 88% of which would not have happened without the impact of climate change. There are 2,000 excess deaths a year in the UK alone as a result of excess heat, and 90% of our healthcare facilities are vulnerable to overheating. We face flooding and its consequences for food insecurity and the difficulty of growing crops—and that is just in this country, let alone around the world. Equally, we see heat and drought affecting our food production, and that threat to food production means rising prices and shortages.

There are impacts on biodiversity and on national security, with consequences such as conflict over scarce resources and migration because people are not able to live in certain places. The latest science suggests that unless we take action right now, parts of southern Europe—let alone the rest of the world—will be uninhabitable in as little as 15 to 20 years’ time, and by the end of the century billions of people will not be able to live where they are. That means they will not have anywhere to live. If we think we have a migration crisis now, we have seen nothing yet.

Let us deal with the myths. First, there is the idea that because we are responsible for only 1% of global emissions, we should not take action. Well, 30% of emissions come from countries that are responsible for less than 1% of emissions. If none of them take action, where is the motivation for China, India and other large countries—the United States is a bit of a lost cause at the moment—which have a far greater impact?

[Alistair Strathern]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful argument. Doubters of the net zero agenda often suggest that, because it is an international problem, we should go slower. Does he find it utterly bizarre that some suggest we can get other countries to go faster by going slower and engaging less ourselves? Actually, we need to be leading the way in the best traditions of Britain.

[Bill Esterson]

My hon. Friend is right. Actually, our global leadership through COP, which my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke mentioned, and the fact we have set our nationally determined contribution—unlike some countries—is hugely important. We were ahead of the game with the Climate Change Act 2008 and the 2050 net zero target set by Theresa May. My hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke also mentioned Margaret Thatcher —when I came here, I never dreamed that I would be quoting her, but I have become more inclined to do so on this issue, if on no other. That fracturing of the consensus in the House is deeply worrying.

Heating Oil Support

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2026 Commons Chamber

[Martin McCluskey]

I had a constructive conversation with Minister Archibald this afternoon about the support on offer, and I am confident that the Northern Ireland Executive will work at pace to ensure that it is delivered to people across Northern Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman mentions net zero. It is important to remember two things: first, more North sea extraction would not affect energy prices for people in this country, and secondly, the long-term route to lower prices is not through exposing us further to fossil fuels. That exposure—not net zero—is why we have some of the higher prices in Europe. More exposure, which is his suggestion, would just increase our prices and our vulnerability, including for people in Northern Ireland.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

Having grown up in a household that relied on heating oil, I know how overlooked off-grid rural communities can feel. They were overlooked by the previous Government, who did not include them in energy price support for 200 days, and they have been overlooked by a regulatory framework that does not give them the same protections offered to other homeowners. I welcome this announcement of support, in which the Government have acknowledged that those households deserve far better. However, I have seen quite exploitative practices from oil companies in my constituency recently, so can we ensure that we are not shying away from the regulatory reforms that are needed for the longer term?

[Martin McCluskey]

Many hon. Members have highlighted such cases. The heating oil market is clearly not working in the way that it is meant to, which is why we are focusing on what we need to do in terms of regulation. As I have said, the CMA is considering particular aspects of the market. We will study its conclusions and come forward with proposals.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Tuesday 10th February 2026 Commons Chamber

[Katie White]

I thank the hon. Member for raising this really important issue, and for raising the figures. I think she would agree that we have an ambitious plan. Today’s announcement of the local power plan may well meet some of the needs that she raises. I will take this issue away and have a look at it. We recognise that retrofitting commercial buildings can be costly and complex, and we are looking at other levers to do that, including accessing private finance and exploring novel options such as property-linked finance. Today’s announcement will help, and I am very happy to discuss it further with her.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

It was fantastic to see GB Energy invest in new, clean, bill-saving technology for the Bedford Road health centre in my constituency last week. That comes on top of the investments already seen at Lister hospital and Bedford hospital, which serve my constituency. Solar is good for the NHS and for the planet, so how can we get it on to more public sector rooftops right across the country? Crucially, I have some fantastic examples in Hitchin where we would love to see further action.

[Katie White]

I applaud my hon. Friend for all his ambition and championing of the opportunities that are presented in our low-carbon transition plan. Today’s announcement of the local power plan is a real opportunity to turn the dial on this issue, for local communities to become involved, and to make the best of the benefits of the low-carbon transition. I look forward to working with him further on it.

Offshore Wind

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Wednesday 14th January 2026 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend speaks so well on these issues and he is so right. This is about energy sovereignty and our security as a country. When the Conservatives were in government, at least under Boris Johnson, they seemed to understand that. That is why it is so regrettable. Of course, this is about the climate crisis, good jobs and lower bills, but it is also about security in an uncertain and dangerous world. The Opposition are, frankly, surrendering our security and what they are proposing is incredibly dangerous.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

I thank the Energy Secretary for the leadership he has shown with this record-breaking step forward for renewable power, which underlines our commitment to delivering the clean, secure energy our country is crying out for. It is important to note that the scale of energy secured—at a 40% lower cost than new gas—was only possible because of reforms to the auction market design. We did not tolerate the mechanisms that failed under the previous Government; we innovated to deliver better value. Will the Energy Secretary ensure that we do not rest on our laurels, but continue to innovate in auction design to ensure that we get the best possible value for money and the biggest possible capacity outcomes from future auctions, too?

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend speaks very knowledgeably on these issues and he is absolutely right. We changed the auction design not just to be able to see the so-called bid stack, which they could not under the previous regime, but to allow more projects in to increase competitive tension to get a better deal for the bill payer and the taxpayer. He is absolutely right: we should keep innovating for both fixed technology and other technologies to maximise value for money and deployment.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Tuesday 6th January 2026 Commons Chamber

[Martin McCluskey]

If the hon. Member sends me the details, I would be more than happy to look into it. That would be a matter for Ofgem, but there is also recourse available through the Energy Ombudsman.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

I am delighted that we are investing in more rooftop solar. GB Energy supports the deployment of rooftop solar on schools and hospitals in my constituency, and the Government are taking up my proposal that it be a requirement to have it on all new housing, but how can we make sure that we are not missing out on the opportunity to use other rooftops, from those on car parks to those on commercial warehouses?

[Michael Shanks]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We need a mix of technologies to achieve our clean power targets, and rooftops are an obvious place to use. I think there is broad consensus about how much we can use rooftops, even from those who disagree with other measures. GBE has invested to bring down bills for public institutions, including schools and hospitals, but we want to see much more solar on car parks and warehouses—everywhere we can possibly have it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Tuesday 15th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Miatta Fahnbulleh]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Industry voices have been calling for that close alignment, particularly on the emissions trading scheme—we have heard that from UK Steel, the CBI, Make UK and the Energy Intensive Users Group—and we believe that those stronger linkages are the right thing to do to cut red tape at the border, to protect consumers from higher costs and, critically, to boost trade and growth, which the Government are absolutely committed to doing.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

One way to drive down energy costs, including for energy-intensive industries, could be to help cut curtailment costs by encouraging the co-location of new energy-intensive industry sectors with some of the renewable sectors that we are currently having to pay to switch off. As we start to roll out more data centres across the country, what conversations have Ministers had about how such centres could be optimally located to help reduce our energy bills at the same time?

[Miatta Fahnbulleh]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, as always. We in the Department are working across Government—as part of the AI Council as well as with colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade—to ensure that we have the co-ordination and collaboration to support businesses on the ground.

State of Climate and Nature

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Monday 14th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

I had the real pleasure of visiting York Road nursery school in my constituency this morning to celebrate its securing Eco-Schools green flag status—with distinction no less. As well as being a sobering reminder of my inability to hold the attention of four-year-olds for very long, it was a powerful reminder that future generations will bear the brunt of our failure to take this crisis seriously. The truth is that we do not have to look to the future to see the cost—my local farmers are beset by flooding, for example. We in Hitchin are already feeling the pain of the failure to take climate change and the nature crisis seriously and to tackle them head-on. What assurances can the Secretary of State give my constituents that we will not shy away from tackling climate change at source, and that we will invest in mitigation schemes to tackle the issues that we are already facing right across our towns and villages?

[Ed Miliband]

I congratulate my hon. Friend’s school on what it is doing and on its green flag status, which is really important. It shows that local action can really make a difference. Globally, I can give him the assurance that he seeks. What is so important—I say this to Members across the House—is that people look to Britain and say, “Are you going to lead? Are you going to show the power of example?” That is what we have done over 20 years, under Governments of both parties, and we need to keep doing it.

Biomass Generation

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Monday 10th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

The last Government’s deal with Drax was not just shocking value for taxpayers, leaving us all on the hook for subsidising sky-high profits during a cost of living crisis, but bad news for the environment, with real concerns about the sustainability of Drax’s supply chain. As the Government rightly take a measured approach to ensuring that we protect not just bill payers but workers as we seize the benefits of the green transition, what assurances can the Minister give my constituents that this will be a far better deal for our country?

[Michael Shanks]

My hon. Friend is right that this is a good deal, in the short term, to ensure security of supply into the early-2030s, which was key to NESO’s advice on the basis of security of supply. In the process, however, we have sought to halve the subsidy that Drax was given by the previous Government and deliver on the sustainability criteria, taking that from 70% to 100%. This is a good deal for the people of this country.

My hon. Friend also touched on the important work we need to do in the broader energy space to deliver energy security. That is why clean power 2030—our sprint to deliver decarbonised power—is so important, delivering good jobs in supply chains across the country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alistair Strathern Excerpts

Tuesday 4th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Miatta Fahnbulleh)]

I am happy to meet the hon. Gentleman. We know that we have a job to do to ensure that all insulation is up to standard and that we have the right measures for every type of household. I am keen to engage with him and Members across the House.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

The UK has a fantastic £26 billion clean tech sector, leading the way in innovation and carbon reduction for everything from clean power to sustainable agriculture. However, all too often, red tape and bureaucracy are locking in dependency on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas. How can we work across Government to cut back on this unnecessary red tape, and ensure that our schemes support the leading tech and innovation that our best-of-British producers are bringing forward?

[Ed Miliband]

There is huge potential, and with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology, I will chair an artificial intelligence energy council, looking at not only how we can meet the future demands of AI, but how AI and technology can help us deliver the infrastructure and energy system of the future. My hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin (Alistair Strathern) makes an important point, which we will take away.