Hepatitis C (Haemophiliacs)

Debate between Alistair Burt and Jonathan Evans

Tuesday 29th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) on securing this debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans) and I think that this is the first debate on this subject since the death of Lord Morris of Manchester. It is therefore highly appropriate that the first debate since Alf’s death was proposed by the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East. I welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison) to her new position as Under-Secretary of State for Health. Those of us who have followed her career for some time know that that is richly deserved. Perhaps the honour to set the seal on something that has been going on just that bit too long will fall to her.

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

My hon. Friend and I had the honour of being in government more than 20 years ago. Looking back over those years, does he share my view—from our ministerial experience, although it was not in the Department of Health—that the outcome in this area has been less than satisfactory and that the issue should have been resolved a long time ago?

[Alistair Burt]

My hon. Friend is right. Hanging over the issue, particularly for those of us who were Ministers in successive Governments, is a sense that not enough has been done. No blame can be laid at the door of Back Benchers who have campaigned and done so much, and in their respective ways, Governments have sought over time to do something about the issue, but we are still here because of the overwhelming sense that whatever has been attempted has just not been enough.

One reason I raised the matter on the Floor of the House with the Prime Minister the other day was to capture that sense. Let me say more about that, but I shall try to be brief. I had a meeting with the then Minister with responsibility for public health, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), a few months ago. All of us have had meetings with the successive holders of that ministerial role over time. The history is familiar to us, but there is an overall sense that whatever has been tried—whatever honest attempts Governments have made—has just not been enough.

I supported the inquiry by Lord Archer of Sandwell, and in 2010, I seconded the early-day motion that called for the passage of the Bill that Alf Morris had introduced in the Lords to put into effect the recommendations of that inquiry. I was disappointed that those provisions were not put fully into effect, although the incoming Government made the changes mentioned by the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East. We all welcomed that at the time, while recognising that it was still not enough.

Why are we making another attempt now? As has been made clear by the presence here of the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), there is now a different attitude towards uncovering past wrongs. The reason why I put the case so clearly to the Prime Minister is that his record in dealing both with the aftermath of the Hillsborough panel and with Bloody Sunday has demonstrated that he is a Prime Minister who is using his position and authority to right the wrongs of the past. Bearing in mind that he has a constituent affected by the issue, we know that he has a personal interest. That combination of circumstances perhaps means that the person in place has the determination to right the wrongs of the past. If information can be put together properly, something might therefore be done.

The sense of closure that must be achieved is palpable to all of us with affected constituents. I am here because of my relationship with a good—double-infected— friend, who has informed me about such matters over the years and for whom I desperately want to achieve something.

What has got wrong and what can we put right? The first point is that the process has taken too long: since the circumstances originated, it has all taken too long.

The second point relates to accepting that something has gone wrong. Undoubtedly, Ministers have said so and made that clear, but the Government’s acceptance of something having gone wrong has not been accompanied by the fullest disclosure of their full part. Even when the previous Government responded to the Archer inquiry— they published their response on 20 May 2009—they still, in relation to the release of documents on their website, stated:

“Further papers have been identified, which are being released today.”

In 2009, relevant papers were still being found and put in the public domain. The Government added the claim:

“We do not believe they add to our knowledge”.

Well, that is for other people to judge. All this is governed by a very real sense that not enough has been disclosed. The current Penrose inquiry, which has been mentioned, may provide an opportunity to revisit that matter.

The third point is that the process has been too divisive. Sufferers have been inadvertently set against other, being asked, “What have you got—hep C, or hep C and HIV, or some other variant?” It should not be like that. Everyone has suffered because they were all infected by the same process at the same time, and efforts should not be made to divide people.

The fourth point is that the premise has been wrong: it just does not work to use charity law to deliver support that ought to be the Government’s responsibility. Efforts made over the years to put matters right and make changes have not done the job. The premise needs to be scrapped—it should not be there—and colleagues have mentioned that the difficulties of separating stages 1 and 2 from hepatitis C only create new barriers and yet more unhappiness and anguish.

The problem about the Macfarlane Trust, which deals with double-infected patients, is that there is a conflict between whether it should act on behalf of the Government in disbursing funds or—as it should do—on behalf of the beneficiaries: arguing for as much support as possible and banging the drum for them. I sense that there is a conflict, because the trust is not doing that, so it is not doing its job.

Following up the Prime Minister’s response to my question, I will have an opportunity to meet him in a couple of weeks’ time, when I will be accompanied by my constituent. I hope to meet colleagues from all parties before that, just to get our lines straight, so that we can have a good go at this.

I say to those—the Minister and her officials—who will brief the Prime Minister, “Go for it this time. Don’t miss this opportunity.” There will be all the stuff in the Department about the difficulties and the things that cannot be done. They should not look at what cannot be done, but at what can be done. This is her and her Department’s chance, on behalf of those who did not get a chance in the first place, so let us go for it.

We need a proper apology and acknowledgment by the person from whom it will mean most, as well as some form of inquiry. I liked what the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East said about doing that differently. The Government have got to take part in it, and questions must finally be answered. There should be an acknowledgment that the compensation system and the various trusts are just not working and that there must be a new system.

It is not for me to say what the figures for compensation should be, but in recent years, we have learned that we live in an entitlement culture: if someone walks away from a major job in a big corporation, their wallet is well padded; if someone walks away from a public sector job in the BBC, or even in some local authorities and public bodies, their wallet is well padded. What has happened to those who were wronged by the state?

To conclude, the cost of caring for the needs of those affected by the worst treatment disaster in the NHS are quantifiable; the laying to rest of a tragic incident and the righting of a wrong are priceless.