Off-patent Drugs Bill

Debate between Alistair Burt and Albert Owen

Friday 6th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Community and Social Care (Alistair Burt)]

I thank the hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) for the way in which he introduced a Bill brought forward last year by my good friend Jonathan Evans. I thank all the right hon. and hon. Members who have made a contribution today.

The Government are in a difficult position. To take a position contrary to that of a breast cancer charity or a number of charities, and to resist action requested by a number of right hon. and hon. Members who speak with knowledge and passion, the Government must be pretty sure of their position and their actions. The hon. Gentleman has had a meeting with the Under-Secretary of State for Life Sciences, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman), the charity and others, and he knows that the Government still do not support the Bill. I will defend that position.

No sensible Government would seek to resist people having access to drugs in any way. The reason for resisting what is proposed is that the Government believe that there is another pathway. However, I am also persuaded by what I have heard today and feel sufficiently uncomfortable about the current situation to know that this is not an end of the matter. I will resist the Bill today, but my advice to colleagues in the Department of Health will certainly reflect the mood of the House and what has been said.

[Albert Owen]

I am disappointed by what we have heard so far from the Minister. If he will not listen to me, will he listen to his hon. Friends on the Government Benches who have made a plea for the Bill to go through to Committee? He talks about difficult decisions, and the Prime Minister and his colleagues have been at the Dispatch Box saying that there are difficult decisions to take. I ask the Minister to take a difficult decision by doing a U-turn and supporting the Bill.

[Alistair Burt]

The difficult decision is to stick to the position that I believe to be correct. The onus is on me to explain why, in the face of the debate, I believe the Government’s position is right, and that is what I intend to do. I want to be very upfront about the situation. I have heard the debate very loudly, from colleagues on both sides of the House, and I have heard nothing that is not deeply felt and passionate. It is not always the case that something brought forward by a charity, and indeed advocated passionately by colleagues, is the answer. The difficult decision in government is often to say, “That is not the answer; this is the way forward.” We have all been in that position. I also understand the degree of concern about this—I listened carefully to the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford)—and I want to reflect on it.

In the time available before half-past 2—and I make it very clear that I will talk until then, because that is the procedure here—[Interruption.] Well, that is what I am following. In the time available I want to explain why the Government think that what is available to people now is access to the drugs. The most important message that I want to come out of this debate is not that drugs are not available, which I think is highly dangerous, but that treatment is available. If the message that comes out of this debate is that there is only one way forward for people, then there is only one way forward for hope, as colleagues have said, and that is through the Bill. I do not believe that is correct. If it stops anyone from seeking treatment because they think that doctors cannot or will not provide off-label, I think that is wrong. That is what I will set out, because that is the evidence we have.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alistair Burt]

No, I will not on this occasion, because I have taken every intervention since I stood up and I cannot do my job unless I explain what people are concerned about.

As the Government promised when similar measures were discussed in the House this time last year, we held a round-table discussion bringing together some of the key stakeholders. We looked at what action short of legislation the Government could take.

[Albert Owen]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister said earlier that, according to the procedure of this House, he is able to speak until 2.30 pm. I think that is incorrect. Can you give me some guidance? If the Minister sat down one minute before 2.30 pm, would my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) be able to put the question so that we can have a vote and the democratic will of this House can be heard?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Natascha Engel)]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. That is not procedure, but it is the choice of the Front Bencher how long they speak for. He has put it on the record.

Contaminated Blood

Debate between Alistair Burt and Albert Owen

Thursday 15th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

My hon. Friend is right that many beneficiaries have expressed deep concern about the workings of the trust. The all-party group report that came out yesterday will be addressed by other colleagues. On the MacFarlane Trust in particular he should know that I share his concerns. I do not believe that that trust is salvageable or saveable, and I will speak about that later.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman read out a list of people to whom he wished to pay tribute. May I add his name to the list? I am here today because constituents came forward after he sent out the letter on behalf of the all-party group. I pay tribute to him for that. When we talk about trusts across the United Kingdom, I feel that, because this matter predates devolution, there needs to be a UK response so that the Welsh Assembly and devolved Governments are not bearing the brunt of the problem themselves. This is a UK problem, and the UK Government should look either to work with those Administrations or to take the lead.

[Alistair Burt]

There is no doubt that these matters predated devolution. As most colleagues are aware, there is a Scottish inquiry going on. Almost inevitably when it reports, it must report on things that pertain to the United Kingdom Government. I notice that the Secretary of State for Health has joined us, which illustrates the importance of this issue to all of us. He is enormously welcome, especially given the burdens that he carries. The UK dimension of this is indeed very real.