Animal Welfare (Kept Animals)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Wednesday 21st June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson]

The hon. Lady tempts me on to my next point. The Minister—ludicrously, despite her protestations—cannot tell us which provisions in the original Bill will not be brought forward as individual measures now that it has been dropped. I would really like her to tell us what measures the Government will not proceed with, how the priority list will be decided and when we will see the measures the Government are so keen to bring to this House—by whatever circuitous route. Will anything be presented before summer recess? Will we get through that priority list, such as it might be, before the next general election?

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I thank my hon. Friend very much for the point she is making. With every twist and turn in the farce around this Bill, I get letters and emails from concerned constituents. Does my hon. Friend agree that it really does undermine the faith that many constituents have in democracy that the Government promised a Bill and had a Bill, and that we have lots of Government time and business collapsing early, yet no Bill is coming forward?

[Patricia Gibson]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and leads me on to my next point. We know that people right across the UK really care about animal welfare—all we have to do is give our inbox the most cursory of glances to see that. The people who write to us, email us and contact us on this issue will be deeply concerned about the antics—that is what they are—of the Government today as they twist on their own line. The Government have blamed everyone else, arguing that this Bill has been dropped because it had become too broad in scope, beyond what was originally intended.

The reality is that this Government are crumbling in the face of opposition from certain sections among their Back Benchers—the same kind of Back Benchers who were vociferously opposed to a ban on importing foie gras and fur products—as highlighted most eloquently by the right hon. Member for North East Somerset (Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg). The UK Government do not want to engage in a fight with their own Back Benchers, despite these measures being in their manifesto. Foie gras production and fur farms were banned in the UK because of the cruelty they inflicted on living creatures, but this Government are perfectly content to outsource cruelty, which is political in itself, to appease some sections of their Back Benchers. This is truly shameful, and the Government may wish to reflect on it.

We know this is the case due to the very frank comments of the former Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the right hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), who predicted in February that the animal welfare commitments in this Bill would be shelved, and he turned out to be right. It is worth reminding the House of what he was reported as saying:

“‘The way we treat animals, in particular farmed animals, is a hallmark of a civilized society and you should be constantly striving to do better,’ he says of the legislation that bans primates as pets, outlaws live exports and further regulates puppy farming.

Officially the government is still committed to the Bill…but the former environment secretary says he is hearing ‘mixed signals’ about whether it will, in fact, pass into law before the next election which must be held by the end of next year.

‘My sense is that they’re putting less emphasis on animal welfare, which I think is a shame.’”

We know the measures proposed in this Bill have huge public support. He continued:

“‘The annoying thing for me would be if the kept animal bill now also doesn’t go ahead because of a lack of resolve to take it through.’”

Interestingly, he refers to a “lack of resolve.”

Public Order Act 2023

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Tuesday 16th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss]

I would like to make some progress.

The point of protest is to attract attention to a cause, and the more difficult it is to attract attention to a cause, the more it undermines the very principle of that protest in the first place. One of my hon. Friends was talking earlier about somebody who was making a racket outside this building. That is not counted as a noisy protest, but it is quite disruptive. There are all kinds of things in life that we have to put up with and deal with. We have to be grown-ups and be able to deal with a noisy protest; that is quite fair.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend is making a wonderful speech showing the problems with the legislation. Does she share my concern that this Act is yet another attack on trade unions and the right to strike, because in their demonstrations about industrial unrest, they often make a bit of noise and gather together in large numbers? This is also yet another insidious attack on freedom of labour.

[Alison Thewliss]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. The people who were on PCS demonstrations in my constituency a few weeks ago were certainly making their voices loud and clear, and it is important that they do so. They were also having people honking their horns when they were going past—I do not know whether that falls within the ambit of the Act, but they were certainly getting support for their point.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss]

I agree 100% with the hon. Gentleman’s point. I was going to mention the Advocate General later on, because it turns out he is Lord not-so-Keen in terms of the Government’s proposals, and neither are we.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

What the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) fails to realise is that at the heart of the Bill is an attack on devolution. It is not about who spends what where; it is an attack on the Scotland Act 1998, an attack on the will of the Scottish people and an attack on the sovereignty of the Scottish people.

[Alison Thewliss]

My hon. Friend is correct. These matters are clearly for the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government to decide, and the Bill is overreach at a ridiculous level. Either this legislation is very poorly drafted, which from the Government amendments it would certainly appear to be, or they do not understand devolution, which seems perfectly clear from the interventions we have had. Are they intent on dismantling 20 years of devolved decision-making on these islands, just so they can stick a flag on something? It is pathetic.

Then we get to clause 47, titled “Financial assistance: supplementary”. Subsection (1) states:

“Financial assistance under section 46…may take the form of grants, loans, guarantees or indemnities…may be provided subject to conditions (which may include conditions about repayment with or without interest)…may be provided under a contract.”

This nefarious Minister of the Crown not only has the power under the Bill to build some infrastructure in our country that the democratically elected Parliament of Scotland has not voted for, but it also gives them the power to stick Scotland with the bill and charge us interest. Gee, thanks guys. What can I say? So generous. It is the Skye bridge all over again. That was the first PFI project in the UK. It opened in 1995 and was notorious for its tolls. The then Scottish Executive had to buy the bridge back a decade later in order to abolish the tolls, which raised more money than the bridge cost in the first place. Do we really want to return to that level of generous investment in Scotland?

Six years ago today, I was pounding the streets of Glasgow with hundreds of other activists, knocking on doors, delivering leaflets and having animated discussions about what a new country could look like. We are a couple of days out from the anniversary of the 2014 independence referendum, which was a watershed moment for so many of us in Scotland. I cannot begin to describe the feelings of hope and excitement there were in the city of Glasgow, where my own constituency voted for Scotland to be an independent country.

I could not have imagined that six years later, I would be standing here, a Member of this Parliament. I could not have imagined that I would have had to fight three elections in five years, and I could not have imagined that Scotland would have been dragged out of the EU against our will. In my worst dreams, I could not have imagined that I would be standing here today, defending the very fabric of devolution from a full-scale attack.

Baby Loss Awareness Week

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The point I am trying to make is that because we know that these mental health challenges very often arise following baby loss, there is no reason why the infrastructure should not be in place for when these issues arise. Sometimes the demand is immediate, and sometimes it is months or years after. Sometimes people will choose not to call on these services, but the infrastructure needs to be there to ensure that people have access to it in a timely fashion.

Someone pointed out to me today a comment on social media from a chap who spoke about “awareness day fatigue”, but he also acknowledged the importance of those with lived experience feeling able and willing to speak about their experience of baby loss, because this can encourage others to talk of their own loss and perhaps seek the support and help they need. We with lived experience who choose to talk about it can also prevent others from going through the awful experience we had by raising that awareness, to stop other people joining the terrible club of which no one would ever wish to be a member.

Raising awareness is very important. It is not and must not ever become some trite stock phrase, although it may sometimes sound so. It is important because every day I wish to God that I had had some more awareness of pre-eclampsia and HELLP syndrome. I may then have been in a better position—I am sure many mothers would say the same—to articulate what was happening to me, instead of being told by the Southern General Hospital that I was wasting their time when I turned up on the day I was due to deliver my baby and that the terrible pain I was in was normal. What did I expect? It wasn’t labour—go home and lie down. Could I not see they were busy? Had I known more about pre-eclampsia, I would have been able to ask to be checked specifically for that condition, because I was not tested for it. I would have been more assertive, instead of being made to feel like an hysterical older expectant mother.

Raising awareness really does matter. Information matters because it can make a difference between life and death. We know that, too often, mothers are not listened to. Raising awareness cannot be seen as a trite phrase or a box-ticking exercise, and I know that many who have lived with the loss of their baby would say exactly the same.

The chap commenting on these matters on social media is right to say that the lack of mental health support must be addressed. We cannot be discharging mums to send them home to their partners and families and leave them to get on with it. They must have the mental health support they need to help them navigate as best they can the biggest loss and the most appalling experience it is possible for them to have.

We have, over the years, come a distance in the realms of baby loss. We have, with some success, shone a light on it and worked to remove the taboo, but we still need to do more to ensure that the isolation of grief does not swallow up those affected by this loss, which goes against everything that nature would suggest. We need to continue to work to break down the isolation, and we can do that with the proper mental health support to help those affected to find their way back to some semblance of normality and find a path through their fog of grief, so that they can rebuild their lives, albeit around the loss that they have suffered.

It is shocking to learn that the majority of bereaved parents who need help cannot access it in an appropriate place and at an appropriate time. This is because perinatal mental health services are focused on women who are pregnant or have a live baby. Last week in the debate on women’s mental health, many of us spoke about new mums needing mental health support—and that is true: they do—but this need not mean and must not mean that those mums whose babies have died are forgotten. They must not be forgotten; they must be given the support they need because we know that they are at risk of developing mental health challenges. We need to do more to ensure that the mental health infrastructure they need is in place to support them. Women who have experienced stillbirth, miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy are at a higher risk of post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety and depression than those who have not. They also display clinically significant levels of post-traumatic stress symptoms from five to 18 years after stillbirth.

As I was reading some of the testimony from the Lullaby Trust in preparation for this debate, from women who had suffered stillbirth and described walking out of the hospital with no further contact about the support they might need, I recognised that because that, too, was my experience. I did not feel able to discuss my experience or participate in counselling, but that was just as well because it was never offered. In my case, the hospital was trying to dodge questions and withhold information about how my baby died.

In response to the point made by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), who is no longer in his place, the demand for coroners’ inquests—or, in Scotland, fatal accident inquiries—into stillbirths, where they are deemed to be in the public interest, has risen only because of hospital trusts and health boards pulling down the shutters when things go wrong. That is where that demand comes from, and that has to stop: it has to change. Parents do not want to consult a lawyer when their baby dies; they just want to know what went wrong and how it can be avoided. That is something health boards and health trusts really need to do more to get their head around.

I am pleased that in Scotland there has been new investment in perinatal mental health to ensure that there is support for bereaved parents prior to discharge and that there is appropriate signposting to third sector services that can provide bereavement and other mental health support. We can no longer turn a blind eye to or overlook those who fall through the gaps in our health system. There must be psychological support for those affected by the death of a baby if they need it.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech, and I commend her bravery in speaking up on this again; I know how hard that is for her. Does she agree with me that there needs to be support for women entering a subsequent pregnancy after that as well? That could be quite retraumatising for some women and quite challenging to deal with, and they need special support for that as well.

[Patricia Gibson]

I thank my hon. Friend, and I think she has made an excellent point. The shadow of a stillbirth will hang over any subsequent pregnancy, should it take place, and we need to be mindful of that.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Committee: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 20th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend is making a very good point about the public health impact. Does she agree that people in some of the communities that she and I represent are already struggling with multiple deprivation, and gambling being concentrated in their areas only makes that worse and worsens their life chances?

[Patricia Gibson]

Absolutely. There is a correlation between multiple social deprivation factors and problem gambling, which is why certain communities have a higher concentration of betting shops housing these machines—the crack cocaine machines of gambling—than there otherwise would be.

I say to the Minister, and I know he is listening, that we absolutely and urgently need a review of the public health effects of gaming provisions. On that basis, I urge the House to support new clause 12—

--- Later in debate ---

[Patricia Gibson]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I am just about to go on to talk about not only the crumbling PFI schools that we are now left with and which the local authorities are paying for—there is no transparency and accountability on these contracts—but alleged criminality that has taken place around these contracts in my constituency of North Ayrshire.

[Alison Thewliss]

I share my hon. Friend’s frustration with this. When I was a councillor in Labour-run Glasgow City Council, if we wanted to see a contract, we had to go and sit in a room and read the contract; we could not even take it away. When the council discovered that the company had managed to build IT and home economics rooms without ventilation, it cost the council a fortune to reopen the contract and get those things put right.

[Patricia Gibson]

Again, my hon. Friend points to the lack of accountability and the hotchpotch—the rushed contracts put together by PFI, which benefited somebody, but did not benefit our local authorities or our children, and they do not benefit the patients in hospitals.

There is no better example of the need for new clauses 14 and 15 than North Ayrshire Council in my constituency. This Labour-run council had a PFI process that was severely flawed and was uncovered by local journalist Campbell Martin. Some have even insisted that criminal activity was involved, since while the council appeared to have two bids for construction projects—therefore seeming to provide the genuine competition required by EU procurement rules—in fact, the evidence suggested that one of those bids was from a subsidiary of the other company submitting a bid, so there was actually no competition at all. The Labour council was made aware of this before the contracts were awarded, but awarded them regardless. In the opinion of one ex-detective, the evidence showed

“criminality from start to finish.”

Another former officer stated that a common law crime of forgery and uttering should have been pursued. Right there we see the need for more transparency. I for one would like to see more transparency on the tax arrangements of such companies, as this is very much in the interests of the UK’s public finances.

All this information relates to a public-private contract now costing taxpayers over £1 million every month in North Ayrshire. Add to that the schools that are crumbling across cities such as Edinburgh, and we have real questions about these PFI firms. For projects of a capital value of £4 billion in Scotland, we will repay £22 billion, with our schools spending 8% of their budgets on paying off these Labour PFI debts. Can we really allow any lack of transparency around the tax affairs of such companies?

It is absolutely essential that there is more transparency around how UK public finances finance public sector projects. The tax affairs of these companies and their wider financial affairs need to be open to scrutiny because they build or have built our public assets. I urge the Committee to support new clauses 14 and 15.

Smart Meters Bill

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 5th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson]

I thank the Minister for his response, but the information that I am imparting tonight comes from the sample of letters that the Minister sent to me, so some energy companies are clearly using this sharp practice. I would not say that all of them are, but some are certainly not saying that smart meters are optional, instead using language such as “You are eligible” or “You have been specially selected,” which is unacceptable.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend share my worry that vulnerable citizens may fall foul of such things? For example, my constituent Mr Vezza ended up with no power for three years when his electricity was cut off due to a misunderstanding because he did not want a smart meter installed. He was so fearful about getting in touch with the energy company that he has been living without electricity for three years.

[Patricia Gibson]

I am sure that the Minister listened carefully to that intervention, because that is an example of the kind of extreme situation that some vulnerable consumers can find themselves in. The Minister will be keen to investigate such things, because it is simply unacceptable that vulnerable consumers can be left in such dire circumstances.

I have real concerns about the mythology being sold to consumers that smart meters are free. That needs to be addressed, because they are not free. We all pay for them through our energy bills. Why has that not been communicated to the consumer? The Minister and I do not see eye to eye on this, but if there is no intention to mislead, why is the consumer not being told that smart meters are not free—in the sense that a normal person would understand the term? Free means that it costs nothing. Smart meters are being paid for by all of us through our bills. As I said on Report, the cost of smart meters is £11 billion and rising. Smart Energy GB has referred to a Government cost-benefit analysis, but I am particularly worried about the figure. I will not be the only person in the House to be closely monitoring it, because I fear that it may rise, and that goes to the heart of consumer confidence. If there is no intention to mislead, what is the harm in energy companies clearly communicating with consumers about the costs that will be incurred when they get a smart meter? I would be interested in the Minister’s reflections on that.

Some of the letters from energy companies that I have seen about deemed appointment are pushy. One particular company sent a letter to consumers stating that smart meters are flawed and will not work if they switch supplier, meaning that consumers should not switch after receiving a smart meter. That is what I call the cart pulling the horse. What does the Minister think of that practice? Ofgem talks about the deemed appointment system being acceptable, but I do not agree. Ofgem states that suppliers must ensure that they are compliant with their wider regulatory and other legal obligations and that suppliers should monitor consumer experiences. I wonder, then, what Ofgem makes of letters telling people that it is not advisable to change supplier once a smart meter has been installed because it will not work.

The Minister is well aware of my concerns and of the fact that many people are extremely suspicious about smart meters, not because they do not want to have greater control over the energy they use, not because they do not want to know which appliances are consuming high levels of power, not because they want to put estimated bills behind them, and not because they do not want to see the energy they are using in real time. People are suspicious because of the hard sell and the misinformation telling them they do not have a choice when they know that they do. Reports of target-driven, sales-hungry cold callers will do nothing to dispel that suspicion; it will only increase it.

I will end where I began. Despite everything that I have said, there are benefits to having a smart meter. However, as I have been saying for a long time, the Government and the energy companies need to ensure that consumers are at the heart of the process. Consumers will get on board by having access to correct and accurate information. Misleading information will only further alienate the consumers who could potentially benefit most from smart meters. That cannot be good. Energy efficiency is extremely important, and never more so than in households that are struggling to make ends meet, in which fuel poverty remains at 78%. Smart meters can help people to take measures that may help them and their household to have greater control over energy consumption. That is why we must get this right, and we must take consumers with us. I fear that we have a long way to go, given some of the concerns I have raised.

I urge the Minister to reflect further on the very real concerns I have raised—from my past experience, I know he will—and to do all he can to address them.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Wednesday 28th June 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

8. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on the peace process of an agreement on confidence and supply between the Government and the Democratic Unionist party.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

9. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on the peace process of an agreement on confidence and supply between the Government and the Democratic Unionist party.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (James Brokenshire)]

This agreement provides stability at a vital time for our country and is in the interests of all of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland. It in no way changes the UK Government’s commitment to the Belfast agreement and its successors.

Disabled People: Publicly Accessible Amenities

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron), who is a great champion for disabled people’s rights.

It is always a pleasure to speak in debates where there is, broadly speaking, so much consensus. We all want disabled people to be socially included to the fullest possible extent. We all want to live in a society that sees the person, not the disability. We all want to remove the barriers that fate has placed in the way of any individual so that they can play a full role in society.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

Is my hon. Friend aware of the challenge that some councillors and individuals undertook in Inverness during the week? They took to wheelchairs in the streets to get a better idea of those barriers. Would she encourage other people to do that in cities around the UK?

[Patricia Gibson]

I would indeed. That useful initiative gives those of us who are lucky enough not to have to live with a disability a unique insight into the kinds of challenges that disabled people have to face every single day of their lives, and I commend such practices.

We have heard poignant and human examples of such barriers and the effects that they can have on individuals who live with a disability, such as the constituent that my hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow mentioned. She also outlined the distressing example of Ms Wafula Strike, which I am sure is not an isolated one. Like the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White), I commend the work that Changing Places has done to promote fully accessible toilets. The problem is that work still needs to be done, which throws into stark relief how far we still have to go in catering for people who live with a disability and removing the barriers they face.

The Equality Act 2010 is important legislation. It contains the public sector equality duty and requires “reasonable adjustments” to be made to avoid a person with a disability being placed at a “substantial disadvantage” to a non-disabled person when accessing services and facilities. However, we have heard that there are loopholes in that Act. It does not prescribe what a reasonable adjustment is in particular circumstances or place a duty on all service providers to make specific disabled adaptations such as installing lifts or hearing loops, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Corri Wilson) so clearly set out.

There is no doubt that we have an absolute duty as a society to ensure equality of access to facilities. That ought to apply equally in the private sector and the public sector. It was absolutely correctly pointed out that equality of access should not be an afterthought. We must always guard against the marginalisation of disabled members of our communities. The disability employment gap shows that that is a real and present danger, and we cannot afford to be complacent, as my hon. Friend the Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow so eloquently pointed out.

This issue is not just about access to work, important though that is. It is about all elements of life: work, social life and leisure. Justice and fairness demands that. I commend the No More Floor campaign in the constituency of the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington, but the fact that such a campaign is needed should be cause for shame. It is a reminder of how little progress we have made in reality. A shortage of basic facilities consigns some people with a disability to being trapped in their homes, which can have a hugely negative impact on their lives, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock pointed out. It is surely bad enough that people living with a disability often face negative attitudes without finding themselves excluded in and from public spaces—although perhaps those negative attitudes lead to exclusion.

It is worth repeating that there is an economic dimension as well as social and moral elements. Some 7 million working age people have a disability. That adds up to an awful lot of spending power. The so-called purple pound is apparently worth £249 billion to the economy. Is it not madness for 7 million people to be excluded from the ordinary, mainstream life that so many of us do and should take for granted? As has been mentioned, many people with a disability rely on Motability vehicles to access amenities in our communities, and Motability must continue to be supported.

I am proud that the SNP Scottish Government have devised a new disabled delivery plan—a policy commitment to disabled people—based on the need to remove any further barriers and ensure full access to buildings, including disability-inclusive housing, transport and communication. Some 93 actions will be achieved by 2021. We aim to secure transformational change in support for disabled people in Scotland. I urge the Minister to look at the Scottish Government’s plans to see what can be learned from that policy commitment.

It would be remiss of me, while we are debating publicly accessible amenities for disabled people, not to mention that, with their new powers, the SNP Scottish Government are committed to establishing a social security system based on dignity and respect that will allow people with a disability to live as full and independent a life as possible, which I am sure we all agree with. Unfortunately, the UK Government have made cruel and punitive cuts to support for people living with a disability, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock set out.

I hope the Minister will pledge that any laws regarding disability rights and equality will be fully repatriated to Scotland in the wake of Brexit. It is essential that the SNP Scottish Government’s good work continues and develops. [Interruption.] The Minister really should pay attention. There is a very real concern among disabled people that their rights in law will no longer be protected by European Court of Justice judgments post-Brexit. That could lead to equality rights being more narrowly interpreted, as well as the loss of vital research funding and pooling of expertise that EU membership provides. Through European research, important treatments have been developed for diseases so rare that no one country could have developed them alone. As we agree that people living with a disability must have access to amenities, so we should agree that the rights of disabled people should be protected in the widest sense. I hope we do.

House of Lords Reform

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Patricia Gibson

Thursday 14th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss]

In his book “The Point of Departure”, the late Member of Parliament for Livingston recalled an incident at a Europe-Africa summit. A president of one African country said that they could not be criticised for failing to introduce full democracy after only 50 years of independence when Britain had failed to get rid of the hereditary principle after 500 years.

[Patricia Gibson]

As I have said, we are becoming a laughing stock all over the world.

In addition—and this is a very, very serious point—we are told that these are austere times. We cannot afford to help the so-called “benefit scroungers”, but we can afford to help the “strivers”—and the House of Lords is full of them. We must punish families with more than two children, because everyone knows that if a person has a third child, they are clearly trying to get money out of the taxpayer. Yet here we have in the House of Lords what many of my constituents would call a trough. It is costing £94.4 million. This dripping roast, as my constituents would call it, costs more than the Scottish Parliament—elected, accountable, forward-thinking, enlightened and representative of the people—and has even more Members than the European Parliament.

In my view, Clement Attlee was being extremely kind when he described the House of Lords as

“like a glass of champagne that has stood for five days”.

I much prefer the analysis that the best cure for admiring the House of Lords is to go and look at it. When we sanction vulnerable folk on benefits who are five minutes late for an appointment at the jobcentre, when we hammer women born in the 1950s by moving their retirement age further away, when my constituents see Scotland’s budget being squeezed and we hear this being called “a sustainable economic plan”, I and many others ask how that sustainable economic plan impacts on the waste, the affront to democracy, the dripping roast that is the House of Lords—and these people dare to pontificate on Scotland’s constitutional future. Even the Lords themselves hardly take it seriously: attendance is around 60%, although it has improved recently, perhaps because the dripping roast is drying up and much must be suckled in the dying moments of the House.

What a tragedy it is that the 2015 Conservative manifesto indicated that the party did not consider House of Lords reform a priority. No, let us instead prioritise bashing the vulnerable and taking benefits away from the poor. The Strathclyde review was a wasted opportunity —then again, turkeys do not vote for Christmas. They can tinker at the edges all they like; they will never make this affront to democracy palatable enough for the people in my constituency that they see it as having any legitimacy. Let us abolish this carbuncle on the face of democracy. Let us listen to the people. Then, they may begin to listen to what this place has to say. I urge the Minister to screw his courage to the sticking place, to get a grip and to get rid. It is time the UK grew up.