Finance (No. 2) Bill (Fourth sitting)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Liz Twist

Wednesday 5th January 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

Like the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead, I remember the discussions that we had on the plastic packaging tax last April. It is with some concern that I heard the Minister say that the Government want to amend the legislation that they passed just last year so that it works with international law. It seems a wee bit of an oversight to have put through legislation that does not comply with international law, but I am glad that the Minister has brought it back in order to amend it before it comes into force.

I was also concerned by what was said about exemptions around freeports, and I wonder whether the Minister could expand on that a bit. What exactly does it mean? It is mentioned in the explanatory notes as well, but I am not quite clear what it means. If someone is importing or exporting plastics through freeports, does the tax not apply? I am quite concerned by that, because it would be a considerable loophole. It would also fly in the face of what the Scottish Government have asked the UK Government to work with them on with regards to green ports, whereby instead of being tax havens, they will actually be something that helps to support our climate change goals in Scotland. As far as I am aware, the UK Government are still holding out on any kind of agreement with the Scottish Government that allows a green port to proceed in Scotland. If the Minister has any information on that, it would be welcome.

There is a missed opportunity for the Government to table amendments to the Bill. As I said when we discussed this issue last year, the Government have not taken the opportunity to distinguish between different types of plastics. Some types of plastics, particularly PET, can be 100% recyclable in bottles that can be bought in shops. HTP, which is used in milk bottles—it is slightly opaque plastic—is less recyclable. The Government could have made distinctions in the regulations that they made around plastic. Instead of setting the level at 30%, they could allow people to recycle 100% for PET and made that the target for something that is recyclable and achievable, which would make a huge difference by incentivising companies to do more, rather than allowing them to accept the minimum that they can get away with. I urge the Government to think about any further amendments that they could make to the scheme to make it more effective and greener, and to encourage more companies to take up the opportunities that lie within it.

[Liz Twist]

I want to comment on two areas. First, I want to speak in support of new clause 17. My hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead has explained her concerns that the tax, as currently proposed, is unambitious. That, I think, is a good reason to look at reviewing the measures that are in place and seeing whether they are doing what they were expected to do but also whether they need to be strengthened in the future, so I very much support the new clause.

The other issue that I want to raise is about clause 83 itself. It is the considerable number of references in schedule 11 to further measures being taken in the future through secondary legislation. There is a striking number of them. Paragraph 3, for example, allows the commissioners to make regulations—admittedly by the affirmative procedure, which is better than the negative procedure. We see this again in paragraphs 4 and 6. Can the Minister explain to us why we need so many areas to be covered by secondary legislation? Should they not in fact be covered by the primary legislation?

[Helen Whately]

First, I welcome the support from the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead for the plastic packaging tax. I am glad to hear that she does not intend to oppose clause 83 and schedule 11.

To pick up specifically on new clause 17, tabled by the hon. Members for Ealing North, for Erith and Thamesmead and for Blaydon, it suggests that the Government should conduct future reviews of the tax and the impact that it has, including six months after the passing of the Bill for the tax rate and chargeable packaging components, and for all aspects of the tax a year after introduction or annually after an initial report. The Government have already set out a large amount of detail about the expected impact of the tax, and the National Audit Office report on environmental taxes recently concluded that Her Majesty’s Treasury and HMRC had

“undertaken extensive work to understand the possible impacts of the tax”.

Further detail on modelling to assess the impacts of the plastic packaging tax was set out by the Office for Budget Responsibility in its economic and fiscal outlook published in March 2020. This included most significantly the increase in recycled plastic in packaging and more marginal impacts, such as switching to alternative plastics or materials.

As with all tax policy, the Government will continue to keep the plastic packaging tax under review. Given the substantive information already published and the fact that very limited data will be available within six months after the passage of the Bill, it would be premature to review the impacts of the tax as suggested. As to evaluating the impact of the tax annually after its introduction, being able accurately to isolate the impact of particular policy measures alongside other external factors is inherently difficult, and the Government will carefully consider these issues. As set out in the tax information and impact note published in July 2021, consideration will be given to evaluating aspects including the rate, threshold and exemptions from the policy after at least one year of monitoring data has been collected and analysed.

The Government agree that it is important to understand the efficacy and impact of the plastic packaging tax, but given that these issues have been previously considered and will be kept under review, we do not think that new clause 17 is necessary.

I come now to a couple of the specific points made by the hon. Member for Glasgow Central. I can assure her that there is not an exemption from the plastic packaging tax for freeports. The clause is to ensure that the tax continues to apply with any changes to freeports legislation. And that would be the reason for not including everything in primary legislation—to answer the hon. Member for Blaydon’s point—but requiring some flexibility through secondary legislation.