Water Bill

Debate between Alison Seabeck and Sheryll Murray

Monday 25th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

This is one of those occasions when there are Members with enormous experience of the subject under discussion sitting on both sides of the House. As a result, the discussion we are having is extremely useful. I draw attention to the contributions from the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), who said that he has scars on his back from this, which I quite understand, and the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh)—she is no longer in her place—who has contributed significantly over the years, and it is years, to bringing forward the Bill.

It is ironic that we are surrounded by water in this country—certainly in the south-west, which has some of the highest levels of rainfall, because of the prevailing winds—yet we are in need of additional powers to protect us against drought. Such measures are important, so there is a lot of sympathy with the general thrust of the Bill, but the issue is with the detail and with what is not there. I was concerned to hear the Secretary of State say that he hoped to bring forward—not that he would do so for certain—the clauses to Committee. It would be helpful if the Minister, when winding up the debate, confirmed whether all the clauses specific to the insurance elements, and any other key elements, will be dealt with by a Commons Committee and not left to a Committee in the House of Lords.

Flood insurance is desperately needed to protect domestic properties. A number of Members have seen their constituents flooded regularly, or indeed have been flooded themselves. In Plymouth we are relatively fortunate, but we have small areas that flood regularly. Our biggest problem is the railway, which is regularly cut off. The organisations involved seem incapable of coming up with a solution that does anything other than cut off the far south-west every time there is flooding at Exeter, which is desperately bad news for business. I am not sure how the insurance companies view claims for loss of business, but without doubt there is a loss of business. That is a separate issue, but it is very specific to our region.

Another point that concerns me is that so much of this is being done by order and by statutory instruments—that is, secondary legislation. Indeed, the EFRA Committee, which has done sterling work in this area, felt that the draft Bill relied heavily on secondary legislation in a number of key areas. The Government have obviously not listened with regard to this aspect of the Bill. I am absolutely confident that in Committee my Front-Bench colleagues will press for some of those key issues to be firmly and clearly included in the Bill.

The Bill seeks to extend competition, which most people would say is a worthy aim, but not to extend it to domestic bill payers—a point well made by the hon. Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert). That is another missed opportunity. The Government are failing yet again to get a grip on the things that could make a significant difference to the cost of living that all my constituents are facing. Despite the welcome £50 rebate, the south-west still has some of the highest water bills in the country. The amount paid by people on relatively low incomes is extremely high, and about 200,000 households are described as being under water stress.

[Sheryll Murray]

Can the hon. Lady tell us exactly what her Government did, in the 12 years when they had the chance, to help the hard-pressed, hard-working people of the south-west with their water bills?

[Alison Seabeck]

Their first review cut water bills, even in the south-west, and then, admittedly, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) explained, there was a constant battle and a need to bring something forward. I fully accept that it was a slow process. I personally went to see the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make exactly that point—to say that we needed, frankly, to get our fingers out and do something about bill payers in the south-west. I do not think that anybody argued that as vehemently as I and Linda Gilroy, my colleague in Plymouth, Sutton at the time. Even the hon. Lady, in all fairness, will be aware of the work that went on.

In the south-west we have a high percentage of people, including pensioners and families, with high and essential water needs. In fact, there are more than in any other English area, and some of them are being supported through the WaterSure scheme.

South West Water bill payers are the victims of a botched privatisation process. We have too large an area, with a massive need for capital investment, including cleaning up our shoreline, and very few bill payers to meet those costs. It is a dreadful situation, and one that was not thought through but driven through purely for ideological reasons. This Bill develops the market in water further, with a new retail market. The proposed changes are interesting, but they are not embraced entirely by the water companies, which are asking questions about the need for a provision to allow for retail exits, about why the system is voluntary, and about whether there will be a level playing field for all retailers.

South West Water has expressed concerns about the Government’s ill-considered and risky-to-implement proposals on the relaxation of the selling of licences without reforming abstraction methods, and says that it can foresee problems for rivers. During this debate, people have been tweeting me about the importance of the chalk streams. Indeed, several hon. Members on both sides of the House have touched on that point. The Secretary of State talked about new sources of water. However, if my local water company is saying that it has concerns, I have to be concerned. Equally, if the general public and Members of this House have concerns, the Minister must respond to them when he winds up.

Water companies across the UK, many of them based overseas, are making significant and increasing profits, with soaring dividends for shareholders. I am sure that they would say that the picture of their accounts is much more complicated than that which appears in the headlines, and that, in some cases, they hold significant debts, but that just means we need greater transparency so that we can fully understand where the pressures exist. The new chair of Ofwat has suggested that some of the financial arrangements that these companies pursue are complex, or perhaps they could be otherwise described as hidden, and that they are running a debt in order to minimise tax payments in the UK, but—surprise, surprise—they are still managing to pay out huge dividends. As we have heard, they have announced £1.9 billion in pre-tax profits and given £1.8 billion back to the shareholders. This is a system for the few, not the many. People in Plymouth have been paying through the nose for a basic commodity while shareholders seem to be benefiting. No one denies that shareholders are people who have backed a company for a decent return, but we need to understand that it is a decent return and not an excessive one.

Water is a commodity that needs to be valued because it will potentially become even more scarce as climate change kicks in further. If we do not prepare well for the decades and century ahead, we could be left with water in short supply or prices rising further for the taxpayer. At a time of soaring utility bills, high inflation and stagnant wages, water customers really do need to feel that they are getting a fair deal from their supplier. South West Water has invested in new technology in Plymouth—I recently saw it for myself at its treatment works in my constituency—and there are, at last, some improvements to the local sewage works, but it needs to offset that capital expenditure and the benefits to customers against its profit and dividend levels.

The Bill does not put in place measures that achieve transparency or affordability. The notion of a national scheme to assist with affordability, which has been discussed over very many years, and in depth by the Walker review, needs to be implemented. This Bill could have been the vehicle to do that—another wasted opportunity. Some companies are doing some of the work on a voluntary basis, including, in all fairness, South West Water, but it makes much more sense to bring them all together into some sort of national scheme—to get them all signed up and have a level playing field where good companies feel that everybody else is pulling their weight.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey and the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton raised a very important point about access to data, particularly in relation to the Department for Work and Pensions. I urge the Minister to do all he can to press the DWP to sort itself out on this one; it is almost a no-brainer.

My constituents find it impossible to understand why the regulator seems to have no teeth and simply rubber-stamps increases in bills. I am sure that the Minister will say that is not the case, but that is how it is viewed by my constituents. We know that the regulator has to perform a complex balancing act, with requests for increases from companies because they need to develop major schemes such as new ring sewers, new reservoirs, and so on, but my constituents are not convinced that anybody is listening to them. No one would argue against the vital work on infrastructure, protection against flooding and drought plans, which the Bill champions, but what is missing is the fairness agenda. The Government fail to understand that if my constituents feel they are being unfairly penalised while shareholders, perhaps overseas, are benefiting, this legislation will have failed and this Government will have failed them.

First Great Western Rail Franchise

Debate between Alison Seabeck and Sheryll Murray

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on securing the debate. I think we all agree that this issue is really important to all of our constituents. It is certainly an important issue for my constituents in South East Cornwall. The First Great Western train service from London to the south-west is a vital rail link for my constituency. The loss of the airport in Plymouth, and the fact that there is such a great distance between my constituency and Newquay airport in Cornwall, means that very often the railway is the only way that people can commute. I emphasise the importance of the train service for the tourism industry, and for people visiting family and friends. I thank my right hon. Friend the Minister, who is due to visit one of my branch lines in January to see for herself what beautiful lines we have in Cornwall, but also how important they are. I am very grateful to her for visiting south-east Cornwall.

As the Member of Parliament for South East Cornwall, I use the First Great Western service from Liskeard to London frequently. There are major issues that I have noticed, which my constituents continually bring to my attention, and I will share them with the Minister. As has been referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth and the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), rolling stock and overcrowding are big issues. Frequently, we have to change in Plymouth to carry on through to Penzance and use the small, two-carriage rolling stock, which is continually overcrowded and has luggage kept in the aisles. The amount of luggage compromises the safety of passengers on board. I recently witnessed one instance where a wheelchair user was unable to board the train in Liskeard, due to the amount of luggage on the train.

[Alison Seabeck]

I, too, have witnessed everybody trying to pile into those two carriages, because I get off at Plymouth. In the summer, when people have large surfboards—Cornwall is great for surfing—it must be almost impossible at times for people to get on, never mind somebody struggling with a wheelchair or a buggy.

[Sheryll Murray]

The hon. Lady is absolutely correct. I have been on the train when many passengers have been forced to stand. What a lot of people do not understand is that someone who buys a first-class ticket from Paddington to Penzance and has to stand on the two-carriage train is entitled to a refund. The excessive cost represented by that could be channelled into improving the rolling stock. I ask the Minister to ensure that the provision of better rolling stock is included in any future franchise.

It is bad enough for someone such as me who is only travelling across the Tamar to Liskeard, or to Bodmin Parkway station in my constituency, but the journey must be horrendous for passengers travelling through to Penzance, especially during peak times. In September, I tabled a question to the Secretary of State for Transport about whether there were any plans to introduce new rolling stock on the First Great Western main line west of Plymouth in the next four years. The Minister replied:

“The Government are committed to a less prescriptive approach to the specification of rail franchises, with decisions such as rolling stock provision devolved primarily to franchise operators.”—[Official Report, 12 September 2011; Vol. 532, c. 992W.]

She might be interested to know, however, that First Great Western has told me that it is a Government problem. I ask her to ensure that the requirements for larger and improved rolling stock are included in the franchise specifically, so that there is no question about who is responsible in any future franchise.

Finally, I also make a bid for the retention of the sleeper service, which is the only way that I can get back to my constituency, given the sitting hours of Parliament and the need to start in my constituency at 9 o’clock on a Friday morning. Without the service, we would all be at a loss. I also emphasise how much it is used: in my experience, sometimes, it cannot be booked even a fortnight ahead because it is fully subscribed. The service is not underused—in fact, we could do with more carriages, not fewer.

Localism Bill

Debate between Alison Seabeck and Sheryll Murray

Monday 17th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sheryll Murray]

I take on board what my hon. Friend says, as, I am sure, will our right hon. Friend the Minister.

We have 213 parish councils in Cornwall that could be of great help to the planning process, both in statutory consultation on bigger applications and by taking decisions on smaller ones. Although planning documents, such as the structural plan, are important, local councillors should have the final say, case by case—for example, on unexpected proposals that will bring about genuine good for the area, such as an area of outstanding natural beauty bring suitable for a particular tourism development. Councils would be in a much stronger position in the all-important initial negotiations with developers, ensuring the best deal possible for residents.

I welcome the proposal to give local people a real say on important issues through referendums. There are many controversial issues in Cornwall, such as parking costs, that might warrant giving local people a say. I am pleased that my local councillors have listened and realise that a one-size-fits-all solution will not work, because there is a big difference between the small, struggling town centre that is desperate to attract more people and the large city car park with access to department stores. We also have many villages that were built before the car was even invented, where residents rely on communal parking facilities because of the narrow roads and lack of on-street parking. Moreover, there are tourist towns where demand varies throughout the year. It is clear that more decisions need to be made at a local community level, and referendums can play their part in making the more difficult decisions where people need to be consulted.

I campaigned on the issue of weekly bin collections and am delighted with the Government’s rhetoric. The last few weeks of bad weather have shown how essential this is. Local referendums would quickly show those who doubt the importance of this essential service.

[Alison Seabeck]

The hon. Lady is quite rightly talking about the importance of referendums to local communities, but if, as her colleagues on the Front Bench say, there should be a freeze on council tax, who will fund those referendums?

[Sheryll Murray]

I am sure that my right hon. Friends on the Front Bench can ensure that, if a little thought is given to the question, referendums take place at very little cost.

I strongly believe that we should have a referendum before any move to make weekly bin collections fortnightly. I hope that local councillors from all parties—although the Opposition seem reluctant to do this—will welcome referendums and give people their say when appropriate.

With greater power being given to councils, we must also ensure that they are in a position to act more appropriately. We have all heard about ridiculous rulings from over-zealous health and safety officers. We must give them, and the many other officers, the opportunity of better training, qualification and registration to ensure that common sense reigns.

Overall, I welcome the Bill and I look forward to giving powers from this place to our local councils and to the councillors who have been democratically elected to take them. That is why I will support the Bill tonight.