Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022 Energy Bills Support Scheme and Energy Price Guarantee Pass-through Requirement (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022 Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022 Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2022 Energy Bill Relief Scheme and Energy Price Guarantee Pass-through Requirement and Miscellaneous Amendments 2022

Debate between Alan Whitehead and Kevin Hollinrake

Monday 21st November 2022 General Committees

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I thank right hon. and hon. Members from across the House for their comments. I will address the points made by the shadow Minister first. He is right to point out some of the deficiencies in the scheme, in that there is great diversity in the number and type of intermediaries. Ideally, we would have liked one ombudsman that covered every sector; instead, we have park home site owners, landlords, electric-vehicle-charger operators and heat-network operators all having different ombudsmen, or sometimes an absence of any ombudsman. That is the challenge behind the measures we are putting in place.

The other challenge is having to design a scheme of such complexity at pace, with a diversity of suppliers and intermediaries. I gently challenge the shadow Minister on the point about park home residents, or people from a different cohort, not having got a penny yet. That should not be the case. Most landlords and park home site operators are decent people who will be doing the right thing and trying to help their residents through a very difficult time. This instrument just legalises and formalises the process. Often in this place we try to legislate to ensure that everyone is responsible for doing the right thing.

The shadow Minister asked about vulnerable customers, as did some other Members—not least my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire. We have engaged extensively with consumer groups, representative organisations, Citizens Advice, local authorities, food bank operators, faith groups and some of the operators behind the park home associations to try to ensure that people are aware of the requirements on them to pass on the support provided.

Heat networks are a separate cohort and an exception in this whole discussion because they are already covered by the energy ombudsman; it is therefore easy to make them accountable to the energy ombudsman. Landlords do not have that kind of relationship with the energy ombudsman, or with any ombudsman. The Government have put forward a consultation and they intend to ask all landlords to be members of a redress scheme. I would have welcomed that move because it would have made the scheme far easier to implement. But at the moment that has not happened, so we have to make these measures subject to the courts. That is the only available method.

[Dr Whitehead]

I am a little puzzled by this. The ombudsman to whom we are referring is the energy ombudsman, and the energy ombudsman has standing as far as all matters pertaining to energy are concerned. Although I agree that the particular circumstances of intermediaries are different, they are all bound by the fact that the issue is about energy, so the energy ombudsman should have traction as far as those different cases are concerned. My concern that the energy ombudsman appears to act where heat is concerned, but not where electricity is concerned, has not been assuaged. Can the Minister expatiate any further on why that difference is there?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I share the hon. Member’s concerns, but I can only reiterate that the energy ombudsman does not cover landlords. Landlords are not regulated by the energy ombudsman, so there is no recourse to the energy ombudsman. There has to be a relationship between the two. As I have said, moves are afoot to deal with the issue, but if the Opposition have ideas on how we do this more effectively they should write to us, and we can write back to them to say why not.

The shadow Minister asked for sanctions for people who do not comply, but we do not see any way to impose sanctions without regulations having been in place before the scheme was brought to bear. For all those reasons, I think it is not possible to do what he wishes, but as I say, if he has some ideas on how we might, he should write to us.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire made some very good points about care homes, and how their residents will benefit from the scheme. If service charges include energy provision, it would be just and reasonable to pass on the benefits of the EPG or EBRS to those residents. Although we do not want to see residents having to take landlords or the people who provide their accommodation to the courts, I think the courts would take a very dim view if the support had not been passed on to those residents.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire made another good point. What about if someone had been parsimonious and reduced their energy use? Would they still see the benefit? The Government support, as he knows, is provided on a per kilowatt-hour basis, so we would expect support to be passed over on that basis. If someone has done the right thing and reduced their energy use, they should see the full benefit of that, both in terms of the reduction— the energy they have not used—and the cost covered by the various schemes that apply.

On the point about “as soon as reasonably practicable”, I would expect the courts to take a dim view of somebody who had pocketed the money for 60 days and let the interest pile up.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend raises an interesting additional complexity, which I am not sure is dealt with in the regulations. However, again, there will still be a requirement for the administrator to pass on the benefit in that circumstance, I guess. That might be something I can discuss with officials and write to my hon. Friend about, if he is sufficiently concerned.

My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire made a point about engagement with landlords. As I have said, we have done that, and we are certainly very concerned about the passing-through in all these schemes, particularly to the vulnerable. That is why we are working with organisations such as Step Up, Citizens Advice, charitable groups and food banks to make sure those people are sufficiently supported and that benefit is passed on to individual residents.

[Dr Whitehead]

I suspect the Minister has moved on from addressing my particular concerns, but one question I did raise was the extent to which the Department is monitoring the success or otherwise of these changes. What actions might the Department take to indicate whether they consider the scheme to be a success or not, and if not, whether they want to do anything about it? Is the Minister able to say tonight that after, say, a two or three-month period, he will make a statement to the House—not necessarily an oral statement; it could be a written statement—about what the Department thinks is happening with these schemes and, if it finds adversely as far as their success is concerned, what it might do about it?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very fair point. We will always keep this matter under review, and there are many different ways he can choose of holding the Government’s feet to the fire for doing that through their Departments. There are many different mechanisms for that, which I do not need to outline to him. However, I can absolutely make a commitment to the hon. Gentleman that myself and my colleagues in the Department will make sure that these measures are effective and do what we want them to do. Of course, we always have the opportunity to refine our approach through legislation if we do not feel it is working as it should.

In conclusion, the regulations protect those who are most exposed to high energy costs. The pass-through requirements allow cost savings to reach the people that the Government intend to support, such as tenants and other individuals. Importantly, the regulations also provide routes for end users to benefit from the discount they are entitled to in scenarios where intermediaries are not meeting their legal obligations. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022 (SI, 2022, No. 1101).

ENERGY BILLS SUPPORT SCHEME AND ENERGY PRICE GUARANTEE PASS-THROUGH REQUIREMENT (ENGLAND AND WALES AND SCOTLAND) REGULATIONS 2022

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the Energy Bills Support Scheme and Energy Price Guarantee Pass-through Requirement (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022 (SI, 2022, No. 1102).—(Kevin Hollinrake.)

ENERGY BILL RELIEF SCHEME PASS-THROUGH REQUIREMENT (ENGLAND AND WALES AND SCOTLAND) REGULATIONS 2022

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022 (SI, 2022, No. 1103).—(Kevin Hollinrake.)

ENERGY BILL RELIEF SCHEME PASS-THROUGH REQUIREMENT (HEAT SUPPLIERS) (NORTHERN IRELAND) REGULATIONS 2022

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2022 (SI, 2022, No. 1124).—(Kevin Hollinrake.)

ENERGY BILL RELIEF SCHEME AND ENERGY PRICE GUARANTEE PASS-THROUGH REQUIREMENT AND MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS REGULATIONS 2022

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the Energy Bill Relief Scheme and Energy Price Guarantee Pass-through Requirement and Miscellaneous Amendments Regulations 2022 (SI, 2022, No, 1125).—(Kevin Hollinrake.)