Daylight Saving Bill

Debate between Alan Reid and Mark Lazarowicz

Friday 20th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Reid]

I shall speak to amendment 13, which I view as an important and key amendment. It would mean that the trial could not proceed unless it had the support of every part of the United Kingdom. The Bill says that the trial cannot proceed without the support of the House of Commons, the House of Lords,

“the First Minister and deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland”.

Unionists and nationalists in Northern Ireland effectively have a veto on this Bill. When it comes to other parts of the United Kingdom like Scotland and Wales, however, the Secretary of State has only to

“consult the Scottish…and the Welsh Ministers.”

He does not need to obtain their agreement; all he has to do is consult them.

Other amendments would require the Secretary of State to obtain the consent of Governments and Ministers in Scotland and Wales, but it is always important to remember that it is Parliaments and Assemblies, not Governments, that are elected to represent the people. In some cases, like Wales currently, a minority Government might be in power.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

The hon. Gentleman and I probably have different views on the substance of the Bill—many of the constituents who got in touch with me support it and I certainly hope it goes forward to the stage when a review and investigation can be carried out on the options—but does he agree that one way of dealing with the concerns raised in Scotland would be precisely to adopt his amendment? That is why I shall support it if a Division is called on it.

[Mr Reid]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his support. He makes the important point that the debate on the amendment is not about the substance of the Bill, but about whose consent should be required for it. I hope that hon. Members from all parts of the United Kingdom will support the amendment. Wherever an hon. Member comes from, I hope they will agree that a measure like this, which will have different effects on different parts of the UK, is so important that it should go forward only if it has the support of every part of the UK.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Reid]

I have no doubt that they are, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is on much more intimate terms with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister in Scotland than I am. My relationship with them seems to involve exchanging letters, whereby they disagree with almost everything that I put to them. However, that is probably digressing a fair bit.

It is important to remember that getting a resolution through a Parliament requires the support of a majority of the Members of that Parliament, whereas Governments can be minority Governments. The First Minister in Scotland currently leads a majority Government, but the First Minister in Wales leads a minority Government, so it would be perfectly possible for the First Minister in Wales to support the Bill but for the majority of Welsh Assembly Members to oppose it. That is why it is very important that Parliaments and Assemblies decide, rather than Ministers, and why I specified the “Scottish Parliament” and the “Welsh Assembly” in my amendment, rather than Governments. Other amendments before us today would give this power to the devolved Administrations, and the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) discussed an amendment in Committee that would have given the power to Scotland’s First Minister or to the Scottish Government. Obviously, as a member of the same party as the First Minister, he might be happy with that approach, but my preference would be for the whole Parliament to make the decision.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

It may well be that by the time the order is presented by the Secretary of State here people will have had enough experience of a Scottish National party majority Government in Scotland to have replaced it after the next Scottish elections.

[Mr Reid]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s view that that is likely to happen in 2016, but the time scale in the Bill is that the decision on whether to proceed to the trial will have to take place before then. However, the next group of amendments relates to what happens after the trial, and the happy circumstances that the hon. Gentleman describes may well have occurred by then and we may well be back to a minority Government in Scotland.

Scotland Bill

Debate between Alan Reid and Mark Lazarowicz

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lazarowicz]

rose—

[Mr Reid]

rose—

Scotland Bill

Debate between Alan Reid and Mark Lazarowicz

Tuesday 15th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Reid]

The hon. Gentleman takes the words out of my mouth: it would have been disgraceful gerrymandering if the first-past-the-post system had been adopted in that election, because in an election where the people voted for the SNP there would have been a Labour Government—and not just a minority Labour Government, but one with an overall majority. What is unfair about first past the post and first two past the post is that what counts is not the number of votes a party gets, but how they are distributed.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that if we do the electoral calculations, it is clear that had the AV system been in operation for the Scottish Parliament, the Labour majority would have been even higher?

[Mr Reid]

There is no way of predicting what would have happened, because we do not know how people would have used their later preferences. The hon. Gentleman’s analysis is of interest, but I do not think we can make any such assumption.