Palestine

Alan Duncan Excerpts

Monday 1st December 2014 Westminster Hall

[Sir Alan Duncan (Rutland and Melton) (Con)]

On the fundamental principle of whose land it is, the hon. Member for Bradford West (George Galloway) is right. What is more, the world more widely is beginning to take that view, and opinion across the world is changing fast. Those who think that Palestine belongs to Israel or that it should not be a state must realise quickly and deeply that they are on the wrong side of the argument.

Look back 30 years and think about where those of the right were in looking at the fate of Nelson Mandela. Look at world opinion now, when no decent person thinks he should have remained in prison. However, there are some even in this House who think that Palestine belongs to Israel and that greater Israel is what it should be. They need to realise that opinion is changing.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I have never heard Israel declare what its final frontiers ought to be. In every negotiation, it refuses to say what its borders ought to be.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

We are all prepared to ask for and await that detail.

To return to the few points I wished to make, opinion is changing, and it should change. We have had our vote, our decision and our debate—the first such debate in this House—on the recognition of Palestine. The day after that, I made what I intended to be a balanced and principled speech at the Royal United Services Institute about settlements and their illegality. I have a wodge—a folder—of hundreds of responses, the vast majority of which were supportive. Those that were not were invariably very rude—they seem to think that I am enjoying sexual relations with camels—but most of the Jewish opinion, from both Israel and the United Kingdom, was supportive. The Jewish voice in Israel and the United Kingdom, as elsewhere, is changing significantly in favour of a Palestinian state.

The litmus test of value and principle and of the rights and wrongs of this situation is whether someone thinks that settlements are illegal or not. They are. That land does not belong to Israel, and anybody who thinks it does is in the wrong. Furthermore, those who regularly and unquestioningly support the unreasonable conduct of the Israeli state are not doing Israel any favours. The sort of expatriate, extreme, let us call it right-wing, opinion that says that everything Israel does is right and justified because of violent attacks is condemning the Israelis’ children and their children’s children to a worse and less safe Israeli state. Those who really support the interests of Israel, as I do—I believe I do—should realise that it is acceptable to criticise the unacceptable conduct of the Israeli state, which I fear will condemn that country to permanent conflict.

The world has a chance to put pressure on Israel, which at this very moment is contemplating legislation that will remove the rights of Palestinians living in that country. Every single claim of moral authority and decency will be eliminated for Israel in perpetuity if that law is passed. I want to see an Israel with the true democratic values it espouses.

[Ian Austin]

I share the right hon. Gentleman’s concern about the proposed legislation on a Jewish state, but the truth is that the Israeli Finance Minister, Yair Lapid, said his party would vote against it; Justice Minister Tzipi Livni said that under no circumstances would she or her party support it; and the Leader of Israel’s Opposition—our sister party, the Israeli Labour party—said that the proposals are irresponsible and unnecessary. Even Israel’s President opposes them. The right hon. Gentleman ought to recognise the wide diversity of opinion in Israel and even in the Israeli Cabinet. Cabinet members have threatened to collapse the coalition if those proposals are brought forward.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I recognise the diversity, but that does not mean that all those diverse opinions are acceptable within democratic principles. Indeed, the President of Israel himself believes in a greater Israel stretching from the Mediterranean to the River Jordan. That, in my view, is not in the interests of Israel. I hope that the very same voices who oppose the law will now oppose settlements, demolitions, the destruction of olive groves and the disproportionate reactions. Why cannot a democracy such as Israel learn to underdo its reactions from time to time, rather than overdo them?

[Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman share my concern and the concern of many others that, despite what happened in the summer, the blockade of Gaza has made it incredibly challenging for people to rebuild their lives. Time and again, we see a cycle of violence devastating people’s lives. The European Union, including the UK, continues to give aid to restore people’s lives, but without a solution to the conflict, the cycle will continue and prevent humanitarian assistance.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

Let me make it clear that Gaza is not the Palestinian Authority, and nor is Hamas. I have known Mahmoud Abbas for more than 20 years. He essentially recognises the state of Israel. He wants peace. I have seen the maps, the proposals and the details that have consistently been rejected by the Israeli Government. If only the Israeli Government could step forward and say yes, we would have a two-state solution with two countries living side-by-side in peace. Mahmoud Abbas has even offered a demilitarised Palestine with some other kind of security guarantee, so there would never need to be a single Palestinian soldier posing a risk—

[Mark Pritchard (in the Chair)]

Order.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pauline Latham]

Yes. I thank my hon. Friend for his valid point. If the Palestinian territories could trade freely and could become more prosperous, they would have fewer problems and there might be an opportunity for the two peoples to live side by side.

What shocked me more than anything else when I was there was going to Hebron to see where Palestinians are living. Illegal settlements are built on top of them and the Israelis are throwing their rubbish down on to the Palestinians, who are not allowed to trade properly. They have to up a barrier to ensure that rubbish does not hit them. Palestinian children going to school in Hebron have been stoned by Israelis. That does not strike me as the actions of an educated nation. I was shocked by the way the Israelis were behaving. The whole process of denying Palestinians the right to a proper life changed my mind about how I saw the Israelis.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

Will my hon. Friend confirm from what she saw on her visit that she was reassured by the work of the Department for International Development with the Palestinian Authority?

[Pauline Latham]

I certainly was, and I feel that DFID could do more work over there. It could help more with planning permissions, and ensure that there are proper planning permissions instead of the Israelis coming in and tearing down buildings because they apparently do not have the right planning permission. Ending the gratuitous demolition of Palestinian buildings would create a much safer place for everyone to live in.

Ensuring that businesses can operate in the region would secure investment. The UK Government should be encouraging investment and entrepreneurship through their aid programmes, even more than at the moment. The Government have established the Palestinian market development programme, which is expected to support 480 companies in the region and should have a positive effect on local economies and Palestinian communities, but I wish that DFID would reconsider its position on the establishment of the private sector grant facility, which will provide finance up to 15% of private sector investment in projects in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. That would not only create jobs locally, but establish infrastructure, thus improving the lives of those living in the west bank. There is a lot more to do and the Government can do a lot more to help.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) for securing the debate, and I add my thanks to all those who signed the petition to enable us to have this debate.

We are all aware of the action in Gaza during the summer months, its effects on the people of Gaza and all the buildings that were destroyed. Before I go any further, to pre-empt any interventions, I condemn the actions of Hamas. However, I also have to condemn the disproportionate action of the Israel defence forces. When we consider the number of people—young children and civilians—who were killed during that action, we must all recognise that such disproportionate action does not allow any sort of peace process to take place. There are key issues following that action, such as the implementation of and support for the UN mechanism to facilitate the importing and use of construction materials in Gaza. There are problems surrounding agreement from Israel to allow unimpeded entry into Gaza for humanitarian goods and personnel. Urgent progress must be made on providing the people of Gaza with access to electricity and water, which are still not in place following the conflict.

The vote that was taken in this place on the recognition of Palestine has been mentioned, and the right hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Sir Alan Duncan)—I was going to call him my right hon. Friend—

[Sir Alan Duncan]

That will do.

[Mr Mahmood]

It is close enough. He talked about the issues surrounding that vote. I think that the people in Israel who are hellbent on taking such action need to recognise the strength of that vote. The old dynamics are changing significantly, because the former controls on news and media have changed significantly. People have much more control of the media and the reports that they receive, and they are much better able to decide for themselves what they believe is right and what they believe is wrong. If Israel is genuine about its position, it needs to pay heed to that. Other countries, such as France, are looking to take votes similar to the one that we have taken. It does not help anybody’s cause for the current position to continue. Unless Israel is prepared to move forward and deal with the problems, we will not get to where we want to be. As my—