Constitutional Law

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Wednesday 10th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

I think we have seen an outbreak of consensus, which is always welcome on the Floor of the House. I welcome the comments of the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Sweeney), and commend him on his tartan tie: I feel that I am a little underdressed for this debate.

The hon. Member for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield), who is no longer in the Chamber, asked me to confirm that the Act applies to the geography of the site and not to the business location. I can confirm that to the House.

I was delighted when my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) raised our eyes beyond this narrow definition of the law to the real prize, asking what we could do to facilitate our ongoing leadership in the decarbonisation agenda. The answer is much more. I was also delighted by his support for the offshore wind sector deal, which is utterly transformational. We have the best location in the world for offshore wind generation in terms of wind speed and the shallowness of the marine basin. As he knows, there is an important opportunity for the transfer of skills from the world-leading oil and gas industry to offshore wind generation as part of the transition.

There is, of course, a series of questions to be asked about onshore wind. One concerns the size of wind farms. I have debated that subject many times with Opposition Members, but I should point out that the Scottish Government’s own analysis shows that more than 2GW of wind is already at the planning stage. Not all of that will come to fruition, but we are engaged in an enormous process of re-powering and upgrading existing onshore wind farms.

My hon. Friend also mentioned—and this is absolutely my experience as well—that the day-to-day working relationships with the Ministers in the devolved Administration are excellent. I chair a quadrilateral meeting which we hold regularly to discuss Brexit preparations, and our conversations are professional and focus on working together. There is a great deal of trust. Like the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown), I would far rather see harmonisation than dissent in such conversations. It is always dispiriting that we almost never hear his party welcome any of the progress that the UK Government are making. [Interruption.] I am afraid that his speech was delivered in such a welter of negativity that I may not have picked it up.

[Alan Brown]

rose—

[Claire Perry]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman and allow him to congratulate our four nations on the progress that they have made.

[Alan Brown]

The Minister is obviously not familiar with my personality. That is how I deliver compliments—in amongst that wave of negativity.

What I was going to ask the Minister was this. Will the Government release the correspondence between the Secretary of State for Scotland and her Department, rather than hiding behind the freedom of information exemption, claiming that it is Government policy formulation?

[Claire Perry]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will regain his usual sunny nature should we have an Easter break next week. As he will know, what he has asked is not for me to decide. These observations are made to the Secretary of State, and it would be wrong for me to comment.

Draft Electricity and Gas etc. (Amendment Etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Electricity network codes and guidelines (Markets and trading) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Electricity and gas (Market Integrity and Transparency) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Gas (Security of Supply and Network Codes) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Electricity Network Codes and Guidelines (System Operation and Connection) (Amendment Etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 26th February 2019 General Committees

[Claire Perry]

I assure my hon. Friend that my Department has been at the forefront of preparation across Whitehall for the event of a no-deal Brexit. We have introduced a number of legislative instruments, some of which I have taken through the House myself, and we have done lots of work with third parties and stakeholders. The inescapable fact is that we do not have an agreement about an ongoing legal basis on which the single electricity market in the island of Ireland will operate, and that is a real concern. We can take legislative powers to mitigate the worst impacts of that, but they will not be taken before exit day because other even more urgent things are ahead of them in the queue. So to the extent of our ability, I agree that we are as prepared as we can be, quite rightly, for a no-deal Brexit.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

On that no-deal preparation, can the Minister confirm that a system to replace the REMIT reporting system that regulates the workings of the markets is still to be implemented?

[Claire Perry]

If I understand the hon. Gentleman correctly, he is referring to the capacity market in the UK. There are, indeed, technical challenges regarding the procedure of the capacity market, but I am not aware of any other regulatory concerns. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that one of the processes that has been working extremely well is that I and the relevant Ministers in the devolved Administrations are now speaking on an almost weekly basis to thrash through the elements of a no-deal Brexit and how they might affect us. I imagine that all would say we were well prepared.

[Alan Brown]

I am reading from paragraph 2.2 of the explanatory memorandum to the Electricity and Gas (Market Integrity and Transparency) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019:

“the REMIT Implementing Regulation, aims to prevent market manipulation and insider trading in the gas and electricity markets.”

That is what is in place now. Paragraph 12.3 explains that a domestic replacement system will need to be established and put in place, so does that not mean that there is a risk in that period of market manipulation and insider trading within the UK or GB domestic gas and electricity market?

[Claire Perry]

Part of the SI relating to the market integrity and transparency amendment will enable UK regulators—Ofgem and the utility regulator—to set up and operate domestic arrangements for market integrity and transparency that will mirror the EU regime. So one of the SIs before us today does indeed mitigate the risk the hon. Gentleman rightly identifies as unacceptable.

[Alan Brown]

What will the timescale for the replacement programme be? I note that there has been no formal consultation on the REMIT replacement, so what is the timescale for Ofgem implementing the new system?

[Claire Perry]

I hope I will answer the hon. Gentleman’s question during the rest of my remarks. My officials are scribbling frantically so that I can give a good response.

Returning to the first instrument, its principle is to amend and make workable the retained EU electricity and gas legislation that was created to harmonise energy markets and regulation across the EU. It also revokes the guidelines for trans-European energy infrastructure that set out processes for the development of EU infrastructure, as they will be irrelevant in a four-nation setting.

The second instrument amends retained EU gas legislation, ensuring that the regulatory framework relating to gas is maintained, including the technical EU network codes that govern the cross-border gas trade. That will maintain maximum business continuity and efficiency for UK gas operators and consumers. The instrument also maintains the framework for dealing with security of supply, such as matters relating to responding to gas supply emergencies, by updating the security of gas supply regulation to remove references to EU institutions.

The third instrument addresses EU electricity legislation relating to markets and trading, ensuring that these operate as part of domestic law. In particular, the instrument amends a wider package of rules, known as the EU network codes for electricity. It revokes the guidelines on the forward capacity allocation code and on capacity allocation and congestion management, which essentially govern how cross-border trade works within the EU’s internal energy market. Of course, it is a truism that the EU has made it clear that if we left without a deal we would no longer be part of that internal energy market, and that is where the potential legal risk to the single electricity market will derive from. The codes would have little to no practical application in UK law and are, therefore, being revoked by these statutory instruments.

We are, of course, keen to maintain cross-border trade and interconnector flow, which has been helpful in balancing our energy demand and keeping prices low. We are implementing alternative arrangements for cross-border trade with GB interconnectors, similar to those that were in place prior to the European market coupling. We have fall-back arrangements in place for the inter- connectors between the SEM and GB to ensure that trading can continue to take place in a no-deal scenario.

Excitingly, another aspect of the instrument is that it will amend the inter-transmission system operator compensation mechanism regulation, which established a mechanism to compensate national transmission system operators for hosting cross-border flows. Domestic UK legislation will no longer provide for such flow, because we cannot legislate for other countries; the cross-border elements will therefore be removed, while the provisions that relate to the setting of our own domestic network charges will be retained.

Similarly, the guideline on electricity balancing will largely be retained in Great Britain, with amendments to remove provisions that relate to a European platform for the exchange of balancing energy. The guideline will be revoked in Northern Ireland, because it does not apply to islands that are not connected with the rest of the EU.

The fourth instrument deals with EU legislation on the operation of the electricity system. Two of the EU regulations that it amends—the regulation establishing a system operation guideline and that establishing the emergency and restoration network code—concern the activities of energy system operators, which balance supply and demand on the system in real time and ensure that energy flows securely to customers across the UK.

Effectively, the instrument will amend the obligation on National Grid to co-operate with other system operators: it will require National Grid to assist the System Operator for Northern Ireland, with a similar reciprocal requirement on SONI, but will remove the obligation to co-operate with other system operators. Of course, it does not preclude such co-operation, which we encourage, but we do not believe that it is right for a GB system operator to be under a legal duty or commitment to co-operate that our EU neighbours would not legally require from their own system operators.

The unique shared arrangements that underpin the single electricity market on the island of Ireland require a different approach. In a no-deal scenario, EU regulations will oblige EirGrid, Ireland’s system operator, to endeavour to conclude a co-operation agreement with SONI because of the unique shared nature of the single electricity market. For Northern Ireland only, we are therefore retaining a similar requirement for SONI to ensure co-operation with EirGrid south of the border.

In addition, the instrument will revoke the connection codes, a set of three EU instruments for electricity. The codes will apply under EU law only from a date after exit and will therefore not be incorporated via the withdrawal Act. A similar issue will arise for some provisions of the gas transmission tariffs.

The last instrument deals with measures to ensure market integrity and transparency, which the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun raised. It will amend retained EU law to ensure that UK regulators can maintain effective market surveillance and enforcement, and that market participants can continue to publish relevant inside information. In answer to his question about the REMIT programme, there will be no reduction in the abilities of UK regulators; post exit, regulators will rely on alternative but available sources of market data. We are assured that that will not affect their ability to keep the market under surveillance. The programme could run for up to two years, until we are assured that appropriate arrangements are in place.

[Alan Brown]

Will the Minister give way?

[Claire Perry]

I am coming to the end of my speech, but perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to make a brief speech of his own.

In conclusion, although leaving the EU without a withdrawal agreement is not what the Government want or are aiming for, it is only prudent that we make the changes necessary to ensure that electricity and gas markets continue to function as normal, including doing all that we can to ensure the continuity of the single electricity market on the island of Ireland. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry]

I thank hon. Members for an extensive delve into what are a series of deeply technical and quite complicated SIs. As always in this process, we have learned a lot. I will try to answer some of the specific questions raised.

The first, from the hon. Member for Southampton, Test, was on the risks and timing of the legal underpinning for the connections code. It is our intention to make further regulations, under the Electricity and Gas (Powers to Make Subordinate Legislation) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018, to incorporate those connection codes into domestic law. We absolutely appreciate the need for certainty, and we are therefore looking for a way to take forward the necessary provisions in a timely manner.

I can tell from the hon. Gentleman’s face that he does not think that that is acceptable. As I think he already knows, the process of triaging preparation for no deal has been very focused on the things we absolutely must do so as not to face a massive threat on day one, while there are other things that, although they might pose a legal question that might have to be addressed later, we can safely assume can be done.

The hon. Gentleman referenced good will, and in the absence of a legislative branch of Government in Northern Ireland, I pay tribute to the Northern Ireland Office and its civil servants, and indeed to the devolved Administrations, which have been incredibly helpful in working on this good-will basis. It is in nobody’s interests for a well-functioning single energy market or internal energy market to suddenly fail, and I think everyone is appraised of those risks.

The hon. Gentleman’s second point was on REMIT and why we are essentially having only a partial transfer. That is because Ofgem and the other utility regulators are confident that that is what they need to ensure appropriate scrutiny and appropriate levels of market information, and that there will not be a decrease in effectiveness on day one or during the period in which they will bring forward alternative arrangements.

The hon. Gentleman also raised the definition of the SEM. That will still refer to EU obligations due to a practical need for the definitions of the SEM to continue to align; as I mentioned, that is one of the few derogations, if you like. Our intention is to use the powers of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act to amend the definition of the SEM, in parallel with Ireland, once a new definition is agreed with Ireland in due course. As I have made clear, this is a contingent problem; it will not mean that energy will not flow in Northern Ireland on day one, but it may lead to legal uncertainty about the functioning of the market and concerns about future capacity market auctions. We are all keen to avoid that.

The hon. Members for Southampton, Test and for Kilmarnock and Loudoun raised the question of the removal of solidarity of supply. We have almost never had to rely on the solidarity regulation, at least in my reading of energy history, because we have one of the most globally developed gas markets in the world to provide security of supply through supply diversity. We are in an extremely fortunate position, not only because we can generate our own sovereign gas offshore and potentially onshore, but because in the past few years we have relied heavily on imports of liquefied natural gas, generally from diversified sources including Qatar, the US and our pipeline with Norway, which is not in the EU and is not subject to the solidarity regulation.

The hon. Member for Southampton, Test makes an extremely valuable point, however. It is absolutely our intention to work collaboratively with our closest neighbours, whether on energy policy or on climate change mitigation, and ensure that none of us faces a threat to security of supply—particularly from state agents that do not have Europe’s interest at heart. Even though we are removing the solidarity provision, which I believe has never been used, it is right to assume that we will continue to be good neighbours to Europe.

A question was asked about the capacity market. Of course, we have said that even in a no-deal Brexit we will still abide by state aid rules. We were instrumental in putting those rules into legislation; we believe in competition and not unfair subsidies of particular industries. Ofgem assures us that the current challenge is based not on the operation of the market but on procedure. We will keep working to ensure that the market is fully restored and continues to successfully deliver low-cost and low-carbon energy to the UK markets.

The hon. Gentleman also raised the differences in licensing between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. The Northern Ireland regulator is identifying the gaps in the licensing regime. We will consider amendments in due course, but since these are not “life and limb” regulations, it was considered acceptable to allow a short period of delay. However, we continue to work closely with the Northern Ireland civil service on these points.

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun raised impact assessments. He is right that the assessed costs of the draft regulations do not trigger a full impact assessment. The long-term economic analysis published last November and the document that we published today about the economic impact of a no-deal Brexit encapsulate his broader points about the possible impact of a disorderly Brexit on energy costs, among other things. It is perfectly right that we have not done an impact assessment for the draft regulations.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the timescales for the alternative arrangements for cross-border trading. The Great Britain interconnectors to the continent are agreeing access rules with the regulators. Proposals went out for consultation earlier this year, and we have nothing to indicate that anybody wants to stop the free and fair trading of energy via those interconnectors, since all parties benefit from the arrangements.

[Alan Brown]

I accept what the Minister says about ongoing consultation with the regulators, but if there is a no-deal Brexit, what will be the expected timeframe for getting the trading arrangements in place? Obviously that will affect not only the existing interconnectors, but any business cases being proposed for new interconnectors. Everybody needs to know what the trading arrangements will be.

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman states very succinctly why there are

many uncertainties associated with a disorderly Brexit, only some of which the Government can mitigate with legislation such as that before the Committee. That is the reason for my strong view that the best way to avoid such consequences is to avoid a no-deal Brexit. I have said before and will say again that it is therefore incumbent on us all to vote for the deal before us, so that we can leave with a deal on 29 March, as we promised to those we represent. That offer remains on the table.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

No, and that is why the intention to close the feed-in tariff scheme was signalled many years ago: it has cost to date over £5 billion and we have a legacy cost of over £1.5 billion to fund that scheme going forward at a time when the price of solar is tumbling. We know that many companies are bringing forward large-scale solar installations without needing subsidy.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

22. The Minister will be aware that the whole point of supporting new renewable energy technologies is to allow them to enter the marketplace and, hopefully, get to the point where they will become subsidy-free. Onshore wind is almost at that point, and it is also the cheapest form of electricity generation at the moment. What discussions has the Minister had with the Secretary of State for Scotland about developing onshore wind in Scotland?

[Claire Perry]

I have regular discussions with my right hon. Friend the Scottish Secretary regarding all the support we are providing for the BEIS Scottish energy sector. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will join me in celebrating the fact that we have opened up the CfD mechanism to the offshore wind provision that is coming for remote island projects—[Interruption.] He used to think that that was a very good thing. We should also never forget that it is UK bill payers collectively who have invested in the success of UK renewable energy. We will continue to review the potential for onshore wind, but the hon. Gentleman will know that the Scottish Secretary and I were both elected on a manifesto that said that further subsidy for large-scale onshore wind was not required or necessary.

Wylfa Nuclear Power Project: Taxpayer Liability for Safety

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 24th July 2018 Westminster Hall

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I will make reference to the nuclear sector deal that invests in the small modular reactor technology that he talked about and that engages with the industry and its supply chain by investing in innovation and skills and by thinking about what we can generate and export in the UK. I also pay tribute to the organisation that he mentioned.

[Alan Brown]

The Minister quoted the figure that 25% of electricity generated in the last 24 hours was from nuclear. In 2016, on average, nuclear supplied 21% of the energy mix, so 25% is not a huge variation and does not demonstrate the massive reliance that would mean we need to have nuclear forever.

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman and I know, because we form a holy trinity of debating on energy matters with my friend, the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead), that we all look forward to that 100% renewable future, but the problems of intermittency and storage will not be solved in the near term. We will not make ideological decisions that will put up costs and restrict energy supply if we do not have to—and we do not have to, because we have one of the best and most diverse energy mixes in the world.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 17th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

Thirty years seems like a long time ago, but this is still the freshest possible knowledge for many people in my hon. Friend’s constituency: 167 men, many from a tight area in the north-east of Scotland, perished in the worst offshore disaster we have ever had in the history of our industry. Nothing will ever bring them back, but it was the findings of the Cullen inquiry that drove the changes that have made the UK a world leader in health and safety, and I want to pay tribute to our colleagues in the Health and Safety Executive, because they continue to focus on safety first when it comes to exploiting the resources in the North sea.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

To avoid double-charging on battery installations, the Government have pledged to amend the Electricity Act 1989 when parliamentary time permits. Instead of a two-day holiday next week, is that change something that the Government could start to look at?

[Claire Perry]

That will be part of the entire review of how we bring forward the necessary investment in battery technology to support renewable energy intermittency.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 12th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

This Government have provided unprecedented levels of support to help this incredibly important sector—that is something on which we do agree. The Government announced the transferable tax allowance, the sector’s No. 1 ask; established the Oil and Gas Authority; invested in the Aberdeen city deal, including the excellent £90 million Oil and Gas Technology Centre, which I was pleased to visit; and put together a fiscal package worth £2.3 billion. It is working, with 16 new final investment decisions this year.

[Alan Brown]

That all sounds very good, but the reality is that in 2016 the Budget measures on support for the oil and gas industry were only a third of the measures on inheritance tax. The measure on transferable tax history has been delayed further, so when will that come forward? Why can the Government find billions and billions of pounds for nuclear but not for the oil and gas sector?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman and I usually talk about the sector in very positive terms. We have delivered the things that the sector has asked for and it is working. It is fantastic to see investment happening in the North sea basin. The fact that the sector has gone through a time of building resilience given the oil price decline means that it is now starting to invest and grow again.

Dieter Helm Energy Review

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 24th April 2018 Westminster Hall

[Claire Perry]

My hon. Friend has anticipated my speech; I was also going to mention the very dramatic, large roll-out of smart meters. We know we need to move to SMETS2 and make sure that that is done as seamlessly as possible for consumers who already have a SMETS1 meter—I am happy to take that offline.

[Alan Brown]

On the point I made, does the Minister agree that there is also scope for direct Government investment in energy efficiency, rather than relying on the likes of ECO, which still makes the consumers pay for it in their bills?

[Claire Perry]

I do; things such as the warm home discount are part of the long-term commitment that we have made to ensuring that there is better energy efficiency. We are working hard to take out costs wherever possible.

The hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton represents a manufacturing and industrial constituency; we have reduced the policy impact of energy bills on our most energy-intensive industrial consumers by up to 80%. He mentioned the relative costs of energy in Europe, where we tend to do very well in terms of gas costs and not so well in terms of energy. That is often because of political choices that countries make about where they will allocate their network costs. That is exactly why we commissioned the Helm report, to understand what it is we need to do better to ensure that our cost of energy for both households and businesses is as low as it can be.

I heard a lot of conversations about not wanting Government meddling in the design of the energy system, but somehow the terms of reference were too broad and Government should have been involved in setting them, and that the report was too short. Professor Helm is one of the world-leading experts on energy markets and design. It is fantastic that he has come out with some incredibly far-reaching recommendations; it is a no-holds-barred look at how we deliver more affordable energy, keep the lights on, decarbonise, create innovation and build relationships between the market and the public sector. I will not even answer the criticisms about his remuneration; he did a great report and it was good value for money.

We have had a very vibrant debate about the report; we will not rush to respond to it. This is an opportunity when we are at a tipping point on how we generate and deliver our energy. We need to take a very sensible, sober look at what we want to do. Much of that was covered in the report—questions about the importance of energy to our economic success, the disruptors that are going along, the move from passive to active demand, zero marginal low-cost clean generation, and the need to access lower cost, effective storage technologies. The market is changing, regardless of what the Government do. All the analyses of the report benefit strongly from hindsight, which is a wonderful thing, but the hon. Gentleman’s point about complexity, and Government layering intervention on intervention, are really well made. We need a response that is sober and sensible, that sets out an energy policy or strategy for the future that can survive successive political cycles and can respond quickly to what I have no doubt will be enormous technological changes.

The job of Government is to set ambition. We are among the most ambitious Governments in the world—we are the first developed country to ask for advice on what a zero-emissions economy would look like in 2050. It is great to see other countries joining us. We are also responsible for setting a balanced budget, so that all our decisions can be made secure in the knowledge that we will have a stable financial framework. Our job is not to respond to customers who lobby loudest, but to look to work with companies that create value for consumers, so we have frameworks and stability that will stand the test of time. If we get that right, this trilemma that we always talk about of cost, carbon and security, would be solved, at least for electricity.

I thank all the Members who have spoken; it is always a pleasure to talk about this very important subject. I look forward to repeating the debate when we bring forward the response to the Helm review, but I am extremely grateful to Professor Helm for his report and for challenging us to think about these vital issues for the future.

Draft Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme Regulations 2018 Draft Domestic Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme (Amendment) Regulations 2018

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Monday 23rd April 2018 General Committees

[Claire Perry]

It is a pleasure as always to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson. If I may add one moment of levity, I congratulate two members of the Committee on their fine performance in the London marathon yesterday—I am sure they were cursing renewable heat at the time. I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk and the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent are enjoying the chance to sit down; hopefully it will not be for too long. Congratulations to them.

The purpose of the draft orders is to implement reforms to the renewable heat incentive. The reforms will deliver changes that will strengthen the focus on long-term decarbonisation, offer better value for money for taxpayers, increase protection for consumers and further support supply chain growth in the renewable heat sector.

Heat for our homes, businesses and industries accounts for around half of the UK’s energy use and around one third of total carbon emissions. Increasing the share of heat derived from renewable sources is a critical challenge, both to meet our renewable energy targets and to deliver the Government’s long-term carbon goals. Renewable heat can also make a valuable contribution to our fuel poverty ambition, and it is my intention to use this scheme and the energy company obligation scheme to deliver on our manifesto commitment.

Building a vibrant renewable heat sector is a key objective of the clean growth strategy and the industrial strategy, and the RHI is the main programme to deliver those goals over the spending period. The non-domestic RHI scheme was launched in 2011, and there are now more than 18,000 installations with a total capacity of 4,000 MW. The scheme produces enough renewable heat for more than 1 million homes. The domestic RHI was launched in 2014, and more than 60,000 homes are now using it to make the transition to low-carbon heating. Before the RHI started, only 1% of our heat came from renewable energy sources. That figure is now around 7% of total heat.

This type of tariff-based support for renewable heat installations is the first scheme of its kind in the world. Inevitably when pioneering something, there are lessons to be learned, and these reforms are a response to some of the lessons from the early years. We consulted extensively on this package of reforms in 2016. The draft regulations will complete the delivery of those changes, as well as implementing elements from two smaller consultations in 2017.

The National Audit Office published a review of the RHI in February this year, which we were very pleased to receive. However, many of the comments related to the draft regulations that are now before us and which we now have the opportunity to discuss. I hope they will go some way towards addressing some of the issues covered in the NAO’s report.

The draft orders will deliver 12 important changes in total. Those will deliver a series of important reforms that will ultimately help us to deliver a more strategic mix of technologies and improved value for money over the next three years. I will highlight a couple of the main ones.

We will increase the tariffs available for biogas and biomethane technologies while introducing new restrictions on the feedstock that those plants use, which was one of the requests that we received from many campaigners in the sector. That will encourage the increased use of food and agricultural waste and will reduce the use of energy crops, making better use of farmland for food production. We will also revise the tariffs for heat pumps and biomass that were introduced through negative regulations last year, which will rebalance the deployment away from biomass and in favour of heat pumps, biogas and biomethane, which will all play a much stronger role in the scheme over the long term.

Another important change is that we will bring in tariff guarantees that cap the amount of heat covered to 250 GW per year. That will allow RHI applicants to secure their place on the scheme in advance of construction, and will support investments in larger plants, but not mega-plants, with long lead times that deliver better value for money.

In the domestic scheme, take-up to date has been dominated by owners of larger homes. To promote wider uptake, which is an important objective for me, we will introduce the facility for an assignment of rights. That will allow third parties, particularly those in lower-income housing, to finance renewable technology and be repaid directly from the RHI. Crucially, that will open up access to the scheme for those without the up-front capital to pay for a new heating system, and will avoid some of the allegations of dead weight that have been directed at the scheme.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

The Minister mentioned biomass and the 250 GW cap. In the oil and gas debate on Thursday, I raised the issue of the Grangemouth renewable project, which is in the pipeline and possibly due for commission. Will the cap affect that project, if it proceeds?

[Claire Perry]

If I may, I will make some progress and ask my trusty officials to scribble a note to me. If we cannot answer the hon. Gentleman during the debate, I will be happy to write to him.

Following last year’s consultation, we will also limit the eligibility of certain heat uses. One of the concerning criticisms of the scheme was that it was being used to dry wood for fuel and that it was being used for waste processing and drying, which were strongly felt to be inappropriate for the scheme. The regulations will change that and improve the value for money of the various projects. We will also remove the use of heat-drying digestate and anaerobic digestion facilities as eligible heat uses, because we consider them to be poor value for money. Those technologies would not exist without RHI support.

In addition, we will remove support for heating swimming pools on the non-domestic scheme, unless the pool is for commercial or municipal use. That brings us into line with existing regulations on the domestic scheme.

We are also introducing changes to allow more than one heat pump to use a common or shared ground loop, which should facilitate greater deployment of that important technology. The introduction of electricity metering for heat pumps across both schemes will allow participants to better monitor the efficiency of their plant and will build confidence in the technology.

Following the consultation, another change will increase the power efficiency threshold for combined heat and power technology from 10% to 20% to reduce the risk of over-compensation and to encourage plants to run more efficiently. There is also a whole series of mainly administrative changes to tighten cost control, reduce the risk of gaming and improve Ofgem’s delivery of both schemes, including by tightening its enforcement powers. The Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme Regulations 2018 also consolidate all previous revisions to the original regulations, as recommended by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

The RHI plays a central role in the Government’s programme to decarbonise heating, but it is not perfect. As Committee members will know, the scheme is scheduled to end in March 2021 in terms of access for new entrants—it will continue for many years thereafter in terms of financial support. However, until that time, we want to make the scheme as good as it can possibly be. These regulations are an important step in refining the scheme, so I recommend them to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry]

I sincerely thank all hon. Members for their contributions. As always, we improve legislation by scrutiny. I will try to respond to as many of those points as I can and will offer letters of assurance where I do not have the details.

First, the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun raises an important point. My understanding is that, while the tariff cap is 250 GWh, bigger schemes can go forward. Effectively, part of the generation would be under a capped tariff and other parts would not. I appreciate the urgency in the commercial world. We might take months to make decisions, and sometimes developers do not have that. I will ask my team to write to him immediately and set out exactly what we know as it relates to Grangemouth. Hopefully that will give him assurance and he will not feel the need to divide the Committee.

As always, we like to work in the spirit of trying to do the best we can. It was important to set the threshold, because we have seen runaway budgets that have forced us effectively to curtail other schemes. The scheme will cost taxpayers £23 billion over its lifetime, even at the revised level, so it is a substantial investment of taxpayers’ money in driving us forward to a lower-carbon future.

[Alan Brown]

I appreciate that the Minister is looking to provide a full update and give assurances or otherwise, but my concern is about what happens if the letter comes back to me stating, “Your concerns are right. It is a 250 GWh cap. The scheme is way above that, so unfortunately the project falls.” The letter may not help. Things will be left in the air until we get an answer, by which point it may be too late.

[Claire Perry]

Obviously we consulted on the cap last year. Given the current scope, the scheme will be affected. Part of its output will have a guaranteed tariff, but perhaps the development team can come in to speak to officials and have a conversation. The hon. Gentleman mentioned that the scheme was bidding into CfD regulations as well. There are other routes and opportunities. Hopefully the people of Grangemouth whom he represents will be pleased that there is so much incentive. We want developers to bring forward the schemes to take us to a lower-carbon future. If a meeting would be helpful, I would be glad to arrange it.

I praise the hon. Member for Southampton, Test, who is almost my hon. Friend these days. He has brought his typically detailed level of scrutiny, and I will try to cover as many points as possible. On the question of the cliff edge, we are undertaking a lot of work. We published a call for evidence on 19 March. We are keen to develop cost-effective policies for the 2020s through to the 2030s and beyond, but we have a unique situation in this country. We have a centralised gas distribution network to which 85% of houses are attached, and 15% of us, including many in my constituency, live off the gas grid. It is about trying to work out cost-effective ways of delivering those low-carbon, cost-effective solutions on which we all agree. We have published a number of studies. Only last month, we published one showing initial findings on the options available for long-term heat decarbonisation, which are typically hydrogen, bioenergy and electrification. As promised, we will publish a full report of evidence in 2018. I look forward to discussing that with the hon. Gentleman.

The hon. Gentleman raised a challenge about reducing ambitions. It is important to recognise the size of the scheme—£23 billion of taxpayers’ money is committed over its lifetime, which is a substantial investment. Its goals were ambitious, but it is important that we have responded to some of the concerns.

UK Oil and Gas Industry

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Thursday 19th April 2018 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

Thank you for your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. I also thank the members of the Backbench Business Committee and its Clerks, who have provided us with an opportunity for an excellent debate. I agree that this was a quality debate, not a quantity one, and perhaps if we had more of those we should all be the better for it. I heartily congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon (Colin Clark)—and he is a friend—on securing the debate, and on an exemplary speech. It was thoughtful, detailed, clear and extremely well informed. Clearly he and other hon. Members in the Chamber have a strong constituency interest, and we debate the issue frequently because we are all passionate about the oil and gas industry and agree about the great value that it brings to the local and national economies.

I asked for and was able to keep the oil and gas brief when I became the Minister for Energy and Clean Growth because I think it is an integral part of the transition to a lower-carbon economy, as well as an enormous provider of productive employment and benefits to the economy, historically and in the future. It was striking to hear the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous), who perfectly combines those two interests, given his chairmanship of the all-party parliamentary group for renewable and sustainable energy and his frequent strong support for the industry.

We also heard excellent speeches from the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman), who cares passionately about the issue and speaks up for it frequently; from my hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid), who I was delighted to hear, because it is always wonderful to hear from somebody who actually knows what they are talking about—we all know what we are talking about, but some of us know more than others—from the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown), who gave a typically doughty defence of Scottish independence and managed to slip in some telling points that I will respond to; and from the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead), who I seem to spend a lot of time debating such matters with.

I will not detain hon. Members too long, because it is a lovely sunny afternoon, but I will make a couple of important points. I and the Government fully recognise the importance of the industry to the UK, historically, currently and in the future. It has been an enormous provider of revenue to the Treasury, of centres of excellence in terms of innovation, and of hundreds of thousands of jobs.

It is striking that in the past few years, we have stopped talking about the industry as a declining force, and started to talk again about the opportunities for it in the North sea and other areas. We have now realised that we can integrate those fuels into a lower-carbon economy. There are also incredible opportunities, such as decommissioning, which we in the UK can own as the world faces the same questions about the future of the industry.

There are encouraging estimates of what is left. Vision 2035 has led industry to say that there are between 10 billion and 20 billion barrels of oil equivalent left in the continental shelf, which could be worth up to £1 trillion. If we continue to responsibly explore and extract those hydrocarbons, use them in the most economically effective and responsible way, and work on decarbonisation, there is a great opportunity for north-east Scotland and the whole of the United Kingdom.

The challenge of the security of supply has been interesting in the past few months. The beast from the east, the changes to storage facilities in the UK and the discussions about diplomatic relations with other major gas-producing nations have led to conversations about the security of supply that we have not heard in the past few years.

In fact, indigenous gas production meets 46% of our gas demand and contributes to the balance of trade. We are clear that we have robust gas security for the future, but we may be able to increase the effective extraction of gas from the UK. I do not want to make the debate about hydraulic extraction, but I am convinced that we must soberly test the science, as we are doing through the exploratory phrase, to understand the size of the opportunity and whether it can be extracted, not in a wild west, Texan sense—that is not how we do business in the North sea base or anywhere else—but in the most environmentally responsible manner in the world. We want to test that. We have to be clear that that makes an important contribution to our energy security and our future economic prosperity.

As has been mentioned, I jumped on a plane as soon as I could and went straight up to Aberdeen—I did not drive up the motorway network, because it was not there, and it would have been a long way from Devizes even if it was. Aberdeen is a wonderful city and an amazing place to visit. Looking at the productivity map of the UK, the contribution that fishing, originally, and now this extraction have delivered is clear.

It was heartening to sit down with people from the Oil and Gas Technology Centre at the Oil and Gas Authority and talk to them about what they have been through. It has been a very tough time. They would say that they perhaps took decisions a little hastily—unfortunately, there have been job losses in the local economy—but as a result of going through that trial, the industry is in a better place than ever. It has the resilience to face any future changes in oil prices and an understanding of what it needs to do to build a more sustainable supply chain, and the co-investment that is coming together around the technology institute is very exciting.

It was also heartening to talk to the people from the OGTC about operational decisions, such as how they pulled together through the Forties pipeline interruption to deliver that back on stream more quickly. Of course they will always be competing, but the recognition of what co-working can mean is incredibly impressive.

The OGA has been a driving force for that. I pay tribute to its work, and to that of the offshore petroleum regulator for environment and decommissioning, which never gets enough credit. It is a superb operation with lots of civil servants from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy working extremely hard and doing a very good job of regulating and ensuring the safety of the industry. We are aware of the painful losses that have been suffered and we are determined to work together to make the industry more resilient.

Hon. Members have spoken about the uptick in mergers and acquisitions activity, some of which predated the transferable tax history. I am told by industry that that has been such an important part of getting assets out of the hands of those for whom it might not be economically effective to extract, because they have global interests, and putting them into the hands of smaller operators.

Related to that, there has been an interesting surge in technological investment in things such as reusable tiebacks that enable companies to extract reserves in a more nimble way. That innovation and technology is really exciting. It is excellent that those lobbied-for tax changes, which were passed by a Conservative Government, are delivering. As the hon. Member for Aberdeen North said, there is renewed investment in innovation and drilling—people are getting out there and exploring.

Some of those changes will unfortunately lead to further restructuring and there may be job losses. We all want to build up a healthy ecosystem for the industry that will extend to a broader region and offer additional employment opportunities, particularly in new technology.

The Wood review, which we commissioned, suggested that we should establish a strong independent regulator. That is working well. We are committed to the driving investment principles that have underpinned that success, and we now have a globally competitive tax regime, which places the UKCS in the top quartile globally in terms of post-tax returns.

In total, the Government have provided £2.3 billion of fiscal support to the sector so far. We also committed another £40 million for new seismic acquisition, which has been managed by the OGA, and we co-funded the Oil and Gas Technology Centre through the Aberdeen city deal. I echo the point that the hon. Member for Aberdeen North made about that; it was a brilliant example of co-working. When we put aside our national, local and political boundaries, it is incredible what we can deliver in local areas. That has been a real success.

In response to the debate, I will announce three further things. First, I understand the comments about an ultra-deep water port, which we talked about in our manifesto. We are immediately commissioning a UK-wide scoping study, which will work closely with my Scottish Government counterparts, because they have kicked off a piece of work in Scotland and we want to ensure that we incorporate it. It is important that we look across the UK. If we can get an ultra-deep water port that is economically effective, it could have a material impact on our ability to attract decommissioning business.

Secondly, not for the first time, I listened with concern to the issues about helicopter safety. I understand that it is the only way for people to commute to work, as my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon said. I will write to the Civil Aviation Authority to ask it for reassurance that the measures it introduced on helicopter safety are working, and for what further assurances it can give.

Thirdly, on the issue that the hon. Member for Aberdeen North and others raised about customs treatment, I will instruct my officials to seek clarity immediately from their Treasury colleagues and to write to the industry and to all hon. Members present by the end of the month, so there can be no lack of clarity about what is required.

We have talked a lot about the industrial strategy. Trevor Garlick has done a fantastic job in getting the sector together and pulling together a series of interesting proposals. As I have said before, we must not define a Government’s willingness to work with an industry on the basis of there being a big-bang sector deal landing on people’s desks. Much of the financial and fiscal support that we have given to the sector is part of a broader sector partnership that we are committed to taking forward. However, there are some very interesting specific proposals in that deal. One that strikes me is for the decommissioning opportunity, which I am very keen to explore quickly and to bring forward. The House has my commitment that we will do that.

I believe we all share the view that environmentally rigorous extraction of oil and more particularly gas, and the use of that fuel, absolutely has a place in our low-carbon transitions. Our current assumptions are that we will continue to use gas. I understand the question of carbon capture and storage; we have debated it before and I will not run through the debate again. I will only say that we now have private sector partners with very deep pockets who are prepared collectively to invest in that technology through the oil and gas climate initiative; we did not have such partners before.

We also understand that we not only need to decarbonise generation; we also have to put that work within a cluster, so that dealing with industrial emissions can be put into the same infrastructure and framework. There are only five places in the world where CCS plants associated with generation are running purely on subsidy alone, which is effectively what we have been asking for. The other 16 places rely on enhanced oil recovery as a revenue source. Even the Norwegians, who have the sovereign wealth fund that we have talked about, find it very difficult to get pure subsidy for CCS through their Parliament. That is why I have set up the carbon capture council, which is headed by the best brains, including some of our friends from north of the border, to try to work out how we improve the technology in a cost-effective way. What is the irreducible core of cost and risk that Government have to take in order to move this technology forward?

The CCS cost reduction task force is specifically looking at cost reduction proposals and also committed £100 million for innovation, because without that technology we will not decarbonise either generation or industrial emissions, and I want us to lead on CCS.

In conclusion, this is a vital—

[Alan Brown]

I thank the Minister for giving way, especially when she is just winding up. I raised the Grangemouth renewable energy project and the possible application of a retrospective cap on the amount of renewable heat incentive money that the project can claim. Is that something that she can reconsider? We do not want to put this project in jeopardy.

[Claire Perry]

I would be very grateful if the hon. Gentleman wrote to me about that, so that I can consider that question and give him a more detailed reply. By the way, if I have missed out any points that were raised during the debate, Members should please feel free to raise them with me and I will try to respond to them.

It has been wonderful to have this debate on such a sunny day. It is 18°C in Aberdeen—I have just checked—so it is a slightly more balmy place than usual for people to head home to. This has been a really fantastic opportunity to reiterate all of our collective support for this industry, which has delivered so much, not only to the north-east of Scotland but to the United Kingdom. I want people to be in no doubt that we are committed to making sure that, yes, we do the economic extraction—I think that I have described it as being down to the last drop—but that we also think carefully about how we use this fuel in a low-carbon economy, and make the appropriate investments in the future. And once again, I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon for raising this matter in the House.

Domestic Gas and Electricity (Tariff Cap) Bill (Third sitting)

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 15th March 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

I beg to move amendment 2, in clause 8, page 5, line 36, at end insert—

“(3A) In the case that the tariff cap is extended to have effect for the year 2023, the Secretary of State must publish a statement before the end of that calendar year outlining whether the Secretary of State considers it appropriate to introduce further legislation to introduce a new tariff cap to have effect beyond the date outlined in this Act.”

This amendment would require, in the event that the tariff is extended until 2023, the Secretary of State to publish a statement outlining whether he or she considers it appropriate to bring forward further legislation to introduce a new tariff cap to have effect beyond 2023.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. At our last sitting I made a joke about being brief in my comments, but I will be super-brief this time.

The whole reason for the Bill is the admission that the retail energy market is not working in terms of providing effective competition for consumers and allowing them to access the best-priced tariffs. I recognise that the Government have made it clear that the proposed cap mechanism is temporary for that reason and is to allow the market to remedy itself. Because this is a temporary cap, clause 8 is the sunset clause, which in effect states that the cap must end by the end of 2023.

I have tabled my simple amendment because, as we know, the market is not working, but there is no guarantee that it will remedy itself in the time proposed, although we hope it will. There is a risk that there will still be no effective competition in 2023, so the amendment suggests that if we get to that final year of the temporary cap, the Government should make a statement outlining whether they believe it appropriate to introduce further legislation for a new tariff cap with effect beyond 2023.

The amendment is to ensure that the Government update Parliament about where matters are at, and imposes that duty on the Secretary of State. It is a very simple amendment, so my comments have been super-brief. I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

Good morning, Sir Edward. It is a pleasure, as always, to serve under your august chairmanship, and I am impressed with your X-ray eyes seeing the coffee cup. It is, once again, a pleasure to welcome fellow travellers on our Committee.

I was of course interested in what the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun said—in essence getting back to that long-term question that we have all been discussing as to what “good” looks like. In 2023 how will we know whether the cap can be removed? Interestingly, the hon. Gentleman is in a way seeking to bind the hands of a future Government with his amendment, by putting in place, when the cap is finally removed—I think we all agree with the sunset clause—the need to opine as to whether further legislation should be introduced.

My hope is to persuade the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the amendment, so I shall set out a couple of reasons why he should, although I think we all agree that we support the cap. We want the cap to be in place for the period it takes to restore effective competition in the market. We also agree that we do not want permanent caps to run in the market, because we want it to move towards a more competitive position. The Bill is an intelligent intervention to speed up that journey.

Frankly, the Government have no wish for a price cap to be a permanent feature of our energy market. We debated that point briefly last week. I think there is strong consensus in the Committee—if I have not misjudged it—that the cap should have a sunset clause. In order for a sunset clause to be effective, there should be an end date to the legislation. Of course, as we discussed last week, that does not simply mean we will pass the Bill quickly through both Houses—as I hope we will—and have the cap in place by the end of the year, as Ofgem has assured us is possible; we will also all be working alongside Ofgem to ensure that the conditions for effective competition are in place by the 2023 deadline. I think we would all want to see those conditions in place well before that date.

Ultimately, we want a fully working and competitive market that is transparent, innovative and adaptive, that promotes competition as the best driver of value and service to customers, and that has a regulator with the powers and appetite to regulate actively should a situation arise, as it has done, where we do not believe some groups of customers get that value and service.

We discussed last week the roll-out of smart meters—where we have seen good progress but we need to go further and faster—and moving to faster and more reliable switching. I am very interested in Ofgem’s midata proposals, which will make switching an almost seamless process. Indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose), who was so instrumental in creating the Bill, told me about his latest app, Flipper, which enables someone’s supplies of various services to be transferred almost seamlessly, with their consent, to the best value tariff, based on what tariff they are looking for.

There are plenty of opportunities for consumers to benefit from that improved competition, but we have discussed the fact that, although some of us are active switchers and are aware of those opportunities, some of us are too time-poor to do that. Worryingly, there is a large group of customers who are on bad-value tariffs and either do not know it or are sufficiently disengaged from the market not to do anything about it. That is why we brought forward the Bill and why it is extremely important to test the initiatives that the Competition and Markets Authority proposed to improve engagement with so-called disengaged customers.

We have discussed incredibly exciting technological changes, such as the move to distributed energy, the increase in renewable energy and people’s ability almost to create their own energy network, which includes them, local businesses and other local energy consumers. New business models will also come into the sector. I was interested to hear the evidence of some of the more innovative new entrants about where they want to go with the market. They mentioned half-hourly settlement and payments to people who do not consume energy at certain times. There is an enormous range of adaptations, and of course smart metering will unlock even more.

We are all determined to have a fully competitive and fair energy market, but I think we are all of a mind that the cap should be a temporary measure. I pay tribute once again to my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling, who serves with great effect on the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee, to which we all owe a great debt of gratitude. The Committee said that there is a risk that if the price cap became a longer- term fixture it

“would put the Government unduly in charge of setting energy prices for the foreseeable future.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry]

My hon. Friend brings her great knowledge of these markets on a broader European scale to make a telling and vital point. The need to maintain investment in the industry, which we must have as we go through what is possibly the most exciting revolution in our energy markets for decades, is included in the Bill for exactly that reason. Clause 1(6)(d) speaks to exactly that point: we must ensure that we still have the financial investment in the industry that we so desperately need.

Having talked about the need to keep on improving efficiency, and having accepted the view of the Select Committee that the price cap should be only a temporary measure—reflecting a cross-party view that the Government should not be unduly involved in setting energy prices— I hope that I have persuaded the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun that his amendment is unnecessary and provides an obligation on a future Secretary of State to impose another price cap. A future Government may decide to do that—who am I to suggest what legislation a future Government might introduce? However, I do not feel that the amendment is appropriate; it creates disincentives and uncertainty in a market where we have to have certainty to generate investment. On that basis, I hope he might be persuaded to withdraw his amendment.

[Alan Brown]

The Minister finished as she started, by talking about binding future Governments. I suggest that most legislation, in one form or another, binds future Governments. It is for future Governments to make changes to the legislation if it does not suit their policy at the time. Binding future Governments is not a reason not to table an amendment or to withdraw an amendment.

Again, the amendment is not about making the cap permanent. It acknowledges that the cap is temporary, but if, for whatever reason, we get to 2023 and we still do not think that there is effective competition in the marketplace, it puts a duty on the Secretary of State to explain what the Government will do to address that, including possibly introducing new legislation.

On what “good” looks like in the future, if the Government had accepted an amendment setting out the criteria for what effective competition will look like—such as the Labour amendment that suggested a whole list of criteria that should be considered to determine and measure that—we would know what “good” looks like in the future. That might also help to generate the effective competition that we are discussing.

That said, to go back to my original point, I am not trying to say that the cap should not be temporary. Following my comments to the Minister, I do not see any point in pressing the amendment to a vote, so I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry]

This clause confirms the geographical extent of the Bill. It will come into force in England, Wales and Scotland, but not Northern Ireland. I am sure the Committee knows that there are separate arrangements for energy supply in Northern Ireland, including existing price controls on incumbent suppliers. We have made reference to that cap in our debates. The Act will come into force on the day it is passed, to make sure that we achieve the crucial momentum in the implementation period.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 12 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 13 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

New Clause 2

Duty to consider the needs of customers in rural areas

“(1) When exercising its duties under section 1, the Authority must have regard to the need to protect customers in rural areas.

(2) When exercising their duties under sections 7 and 8, the Authority and the Secretary of State must have regard to—

(a) whether effective competition exists for customers in rural areas, and

(b) additional protection in place for customers in rural areas.”.—(Alan Brown.)

This new clause requires the Secretary of State and the Authority to have regard for customers in rural areas when exercising their powers in setting, reviewing and terminating the cap.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Alan Brown]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

We know that part of the problem with existing tariffs is that certain groups of people are more likely to be adversely affected. New clause 2 would make the duty to consider the needs of customers in rural areas absolutely explicit. To recap what I think we are all aware of, people who reside in rural areas are more likely to have lower incomes; they are more likely to be off the gas grid, which leads to overall higher energy costs; and, particularly in Scotland, they are more likely to have properties that are much more difficult to make energy-efficient, thereby increasing their ongoing energy costs.

Digital connectivity is an issue predominantly in rural issues, which means that is difficult to undertake regular switching. Rural areas also still suffer from notspots for mobile coverage, which is an impediment to getting a smart meter. If we really believe that smart meters will help revolutionise the market and help people get lower tariffs, we need to eliminate the notspots. The Scottish Government have just announced a £25 million fund to provide more coverage in rural areas, but that is perhaps not something they should need to step up to the plate on. Challenger companies are also less likely to tackle the rural issue, so the incumbents—the big six—often have almost a monopoly in some rural areas. That is another barrier to competition.

To cap it all in terms of the disadvantages for rural customers, people in the Scottish highlands and islands have to pay 4p a unit more for electricity usage. Rubbing salt into their wounds, anything generated in more rural areas has higher transmission charges placed on the generation companies, and customers in those areas pay a higher distribution levy. That is a real injustice for those in rural areas. And, of course, the Government have removed contract for difference auction capabilities for onshore wind in rural areas, which compounds the whole feeling of injustice.

The new clause would therefore require the Secretary of State and the regulator to have regard to customers in rural areas in exercising their powers when setting, reviewing and terminating the cap. The clause itself is self-explanatory. Again, I am interested to hear what the Minister has to say.

[Claire Perry]

The new clause seeks to add a clause to the Bill to create duties on Ofgem and the Secretary of State to consider the needs of customers in rural areas and to consider additional protections for them.

The hon. Gentleman spoke about this on Second Reading, and many of us who represent very rural constituencies understand exactly what he is saying. I have been really pleased to learn that, in the north of Scotland, the Government have confirmed their commitment to the hydro benefit replacement scheme, which is worth an average of £41 annually per household in the region.

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that costs are in some cases the function of geography—there is this unfortunate thing that it costs more to get electricity down to certain parts of the country. In my own region, the south-west, the peninsular effect creates some unfortunate energy price increases for those living at the end of the grid, as it were. That is something we have long had to live with. I am not saying that that is acceptable, but to date it has been a function of the pricing of energy distribution.

The other issue for many of those representing rural areas, including mine, is that people rely on heating oil or liquefied petroleum gas deliveries, because we are off the grid. Not only can that be a costly proposition, given the spike in heating oil prices, but it is a problem in terms of carbon emissions. As the hon. Gentleman knows from the clean growth strategy, I am determined to phase out fossil fuel heating—not in a way that penalises existing customers—starting with new builds from 2025, and really trying to come up with cost-effective alternatives in future.

When we have the consultation on the energy company obligation, which will be happening shortly, I am minded to review how much we direct towards customers in rural areas. As the hon. Gentleman knows, and as I know only too well from my constituency, fuel poverty is not an urban phenomenon. Many of our constituents live in old homes, which are not suitable for more modern forms of energy efficiency—[Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden is putting up his hand to say that his house is like that. These homes are a problem, particularly for those on low incomes; in my constituency the average income is well below the national average, and many of our homes are simply very old. That is why, what I would like to do with ECO, to be forthcoming, is to see how we can deliver more help to rural households and how we can focus that help more on innovation so that we can create more of a route to market for important new technologies that could help.

We have an open market in the supply of heating oil—it has been looked at, and the conclusion was that it is competitive and working. LPG customers have the LPG orders introduced by the CMA, which set a maximum contract length. Under the fuel poor network extension scheme, Ofgem sets a target for gas distribution companies to connect an additional 91,000 low-income homes to the gas grid by 2021. So there is work afoot to reduce some of the disbenefits of living in some of the most beautiful parts of the world, such as the constituency of the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun.

I have mentioned additional help, but I suppose the question is whether we should specify in the Bill that more should be done. My argument is that the new clause is not necessary, because the Bill already explicitly requires Ofgem to protect all existing and future standard variable and default customers, including consumers in rural areas. Furthermore, Ofgem’s role as the regulator under the existing gas and electricity Acts confirms that it has a duty to protect the interests of all existing and future customers. It should specifically have regard to the interests of individuals living in rural areas, among other things.

There are already protections at various levels of the law and in the Ofgem regulations for those customers for whom the hon. Gentleman so rightly speaks. I therefore do not believe that the new clause is necessary, but I remain apprised of the issue he raised, which many of us face: how we help people who live in rural areas, who do not have the same options as those who live in urban areas, whether in terms of heating, lighting or broadband. I hope that he is content with that explanation and is minded to withdraw his new clause.

Domestic Gas and Electricity (Tariff Cap) Bill (Second sitting)

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Committee Debate: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 13th March 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Alan Brown]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McDonagh. I was not originally going to talk, but 25 minutes into the Bill Committee my frustrations kicked in. It felt like 25 minutes of almost agreeing with the amendment. We have got an amendment with a date and everybody agrees that it is a reasonable deadline and timeframe. We are seeming to agree that Ofgem has committed to doing this in five months. I thought that Dermot was absolutely resolute in the evidence session in saying “We will do it in five months”, but his colleague had slightly more caveats and was slightly more restrained.

I cannot see any problem in getting a deadline that puts a marker down: humans work better to a deadline. It sends a message to our constituents and the people out there that we have this clear deadline. I listened to the comments from the Minister and I understand that she is saying that she wants to minimise any risks going forward in getting the Bill implemented. What if there is a legal challenge and then the deadline becomes a possible issue? But given that we have already agreed that we think this is a robust Bill that has been well written and well crafted, I think we have got to have confidence that it is robust. Having a date on the face of the Bill will make it that bit more robust and watertight.

[Claire Perry]

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s support, and I am delighted that we have cross-party support. I think we are all agreed that this is a robust Bill. I thank the hon. Gentleman for sharing his tribute to the parliamentary team, who have done a good job drafting it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

I rise to speak to new clause 1, which is tabled in my name. It replicates or mirrors amendments 8, 9 and 10 in trying to provide explicit support for vulnerable and disabled consumers.

In the Minister’s opening remarks this morning—in private and in the evidence session—she expressed her concern to ensure that vulnerable customers are protected in future. Clearly, part of the Bill’s aim is to protect the vulnerable and those who have been getting ripped off. When I asked one of the panels about improving the Bill, and I specifically mentioned vulnerable and disabled people, the representative from Citizens Advice said that the protections are implicit in the Bill, but not explicit. Ofgem agreed that the protection of vulnerable people needs to be considered, although it believes that some measures are already in place. New clause 1 would explicitly ensure that vulnerable and disabled consumers have that protection and consideration in terms of effective market competition for the grouping they sit within.

New clause 1 effectively mirrors a clause proposed by Scope—a charity whose strapline claims that it exists

“to make this country a place where disabled people have the same opportunities as everyone else.”

Given that Scope are expert advocates and campaigners, I was happy to move this new clause.

As Scope rightly observes, people with disabilities are often high consumers of energy due to their impairment or condition. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test highlighted that a quarter of the households in which a disabled person resides—4.1 million households—spend more than £1,500 per year on energy, and nearly 800,000 households spend over £2,500 a year. That is a huge, significant sum and clearly has a huge impact on their expenditure. In terms of market regulation, it therefore makes absolute sense to make specific provision for vulnerable and disabled consumers.

We heard that some disabled people are protected under current schemes, but not all disabled people are automatically eligible for the warm home discount, and nor do they automatically get registered on the priority services register. That, again, reinforces why the Bill needs to make explicit provision for vulnerable and disabled people when setting, implementing and reviewing the cap, particularly in terms of whether conditions for effective competition are in place and whether the cap should be lifted.

We have already heard that, as predicted, additional protections will need to remain in place post cap. I want to conclude with an example from Scope. This is from someone called Lynley:

“Before I became disabled, I never gave heating a second thought. But now, as I’m home every day, things are very different. I find it hard to stay warm as I can’t move around to generate any heat. I need the heating on pretty much constantly. I also use an electric heat pad to help manage my pain and an electric powerchair to go outside. This equipment requires charging frequently. My energy bills are much higher than before, and—coupled with the loss of my income as a teacher—have made getting by very difficult.”

There is cross-party support for the Bill as a whole, and we all agree that it is about doing the right thing to protect consumers from getting ripped off in what has been a market failure to date. But let us do this absolutely properly and make sure that the rights of the vulnerable and the disabled are explicitly protected in the Bill as well.

[Claire Perry]

I would like to speak to amendments 4, 8, 9 and 10 and new clause 1. I will start with the first part of amendment 4, which requires a hard estimate on the face of the Bill as to what the saving might be. I was delighted to hear the hon. Member for Southampton, Test quoting our Prime Minister so extensively. I could quote some of the things she has said about the Labour party, but I would not like to challenge the spirit of cross-party consensus. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman really does not want to tempt me on that.

We can all sit and make estimates of what the savings ought to be, but all of that will depend on the level at which Ofgem chooses to set the cap.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry]

We have had an excellent debate, where we have been genuinely probing and testing the Bill, and we have come to a good outcome. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Question 6 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 7

Review of competition for domestic supply contracts

[Alan Brown]

I beg to move amendment 1, in clause 7, page 4, line 38, at end insert—

“(1A) The Secretary of State shall within six months of the passing of this Act publish a statement outlining the criteria that is to be used by the Authority in the review to assess whether conditions are in place for effective competition for domestic supply contracts.”

This amendment would require the Secretary of State to outline the criteria that shall be used by Ofgem when assessing whether conditions are in place for effective competition for domestic supply contracts.

I do not know if it is my upbringing in the west of Scotland, but compared to the hon. Member for Southampton, Test, I am a man of few words, so I will be really brief.

Amendment 1 and its explanatory notes lay out the case. I have prepared a timeframe for the Secretary of State to set out the criteria by which Ofgem will assess the operation of the energy market for effective competition in the marketplace, and such effective competition clearly will allow the cap to be lifted.

The amendment is important for a couple of reasons. Clearly, if we want the suppliers to change their behaviour, it is important that they know what they will be measured on. Hopefully, that will give them further incentives to change their behaviour and to make the market much more competitive and effective for consumers.

The Government’s aim is that the cap will be only temporary—perhaps lasting only two years. Therefore, it is a limited timeframe. That makes it even more important that, as soon as we can, we understand what the companies will be measured against. If a report is laid that sets out the criteria within six months, that takes away the risk of moving targets, in terms of the suppliers changing how they are operating, but perhaps not in the way we want. Obviously, we want to manage how they operate and make that most effective for consumers. The amendment is quite simple and speaks for itself.

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman is a man of few words, but what a very pleasant accent, if I might say so, and what a joy it is to welcome so many colleagues from north of the border with similar burrs on our side of the House. I will now try to speak exclusively about the amendment and take his example of brevity in doing so.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to raise the question of the conditions for effective competition so that we can all understand when the recommendation to remove the cap is the right one, as he said, considering how the market evolves over the next few years. We all have a hope and expectation that the market will evolve rapidly; indeed, the whole principle behind the Bill is about an intelligent intervention that will help the market to reset to a more competitive environment.

We have set out these general conditions, but I feel very strongly that with an independent regulator that we all believe has the powers and knowledge to both set the cap and confirm whether competition has been restored, it is right that we do not hold it to a specific set of weightings for what competition looks like. Again, I refer to the BEIS Committee, which said:

“We believe that Ofgem have the required expertise to set and measure indicators of effective competition and make the appropriate recommendation to the Secretary of State.”

The hon. Member for Nottingham North made the point about unintended consequences; we had conversations in pre-Bill meetings about whether we would want there to be a formula that said, “It is 20% switching times and 50% price cap reduction”. All that constrains Ofgem’s ability to review and set an opinion on competition, particularly as the market evolves. We are all expecting the energy market to evolve quickly. The amendment would constrain Ofgem’s job unnecessarily. There is nothing to be gained from seeking to pre-empt Ofgem in its work. In raising this issue, the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun is absolutely right to say that that scrutiny of what effective competition looks like will form an extremely active test of whether we can all sit around in a couple of years’ time and say that this Bill on which we have all worked so hard has been effective.

On the basis that the amendment would constrain what Ofgem want to do, I hope that the hon. Gentleman feels content with my explanation and will consider withdrawing it.

[Alan Brown]

Listening to the Minister, on one level I think that constraining Ofgem might not be such a bad thing if it constrains it in a way that we are happy with, because then we can have criteria that we as politicians, and consumers and suppliers, understand. On the other hand, I understand what the Minister says, in that the regulator has its own job to do. I am conscious that some of the submissions we received as part of this process express concern about the fact that nobody knows what these effective competition criteria will look like. I still have some slight concerns, but I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown]

Why would it be a box-ticking exercise if we as parliamentarians set out criteria that we think can be used, but not if Ofgem sets out the criteria?

[Claire Perry]

That is a valid point. I guess that by setting the criteria in the Bill we would effectively constrain the opportunities that Ofgem has. Ofgem, as a regulator, should be able to sit closer to the market and observe its evolution, and amend its processes accordingly. All of us know how even the most tortuous, tiny change to a Bill, even if it is done through a statutory instrument, can chew up an awful lot of time and reopen a debate that did not actually need to be reopened.

The hon. Member for Southampton, Test is right that we absolutely have legal powers to protect our constituents, and that is what we are doing, but what we are also doing is empowering the regulator to be perhaps more nimble and agile than politicians and even my fine civil servants might be.

I turn to the Smart Meters Bill, because it is right to say, “Why is that the only thing in the Bill?” Frankly, the reason is that we are rolling out this massive Government programme. We are talking about £11 billion of investment and £17 billion of benefit to consumers. It is now a licence condition for Ofgem. We have had the first roll-out and we are working hard on the data integration, so that the upgrades to a SMETS2 meter happen seamlessly and remotely. I fully intend to work with industry very closely this summer to start to turbocharge that process. There is huge benefit there; the conditions are in place and we want to accelerate.

We want to make sure that the obligations to be part of the evolution of a competitive market and to roll out smart meters are inextricably linked in the minds of industry. On that basis, although we have an important role to play in talking about the terms of effective competition, we expect the market to continue to evolve. It would not be helpful to constrain Ofgem’s definition now by setting out what could be perfectly sensible ideas.

Of course, there will be an opportunity to review Ofgem’s report and say what the conditions are. We have not yet talked about what the transparency of publication is for that report, but that is certainly something we can address when we discuss that part of the Bill. There is a question as to how transparent that report is made and how widely it should be circulated. As the Committee knows, I am open to ideas of transparency, because it is the way to drive the best forms of competitive behaviour. I fear I may be chancing my luck this late in the day, but I invite the hon. Member for Southampton, Test to withdraw his amendment.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

I am sure whisky drinkers everywhere will be grateful for that intervention, Mr Speaker.

The industrial strategy sets out other opportunities with industries across the UK to grow their productivity, improve their exports and create high-value jobs. I am pleased to say we are working closely with the Scottish Government to implement the strategy.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

To mitigate the extreme hard Tory Brexit and create further job opportunities in Scotland, will the Minister commit to speaking to onshore wind developers and allowing them to bid in future contract for difference auctions?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

13. What steps he is taking to support the development of carbon capture and storage technology.

[The Minister for Climate Change and Industry (Claire Perry)]

Carbon capture usage and storage has huge potential to play a vital future role in reducing emissions across a range of activities, but the technology has to be made more cost-effective to deploy at scale. That is why we have committed up to £100 million of public money in CCUS innovation in our clean growth strategy and why are working with the private sector and other Governments to drive up technological innovation and to drive down costs.

[Claire Perry]

The world has not yet decided to invest in traditional CCUS. There are 21 at-scale plants operating globally, of which 16 rely on enhanced oil recovery as a revenue stream. It is simply not cost-effective enough in its current form for us to commit large-scale investment. We have to get the costs down. We are now in a world where the private sector wants to invest, however, and I am sure we would both welcome developments such as Project Acorn, to which both the UK Government and the Scottish Government have committed funds.

[Alan Brown]

The Minister does not like being reminded that the pulling of the £1 billion for the Peterhead project was a betrayal of the north-east of Scotland and the Scottish energy sector. She talks at the Dispatch Box about value for money, but the strike price of £92.50 at Hinkley is not value for money. When will the Government make real financial commitments to CCS in Scotland?

[Claire Perry]

In the world I live in, £100 million is quite a substantial financial investment in CCUS. It is striking that the Scottish Government invested only £100,000 in Project Acorn, as opposed to our £1.3 million. The point remains that the technology is not cost-effective. Only six plants in the world are operating without additional revenue from enhanced oil recovery. We want Britain to be the technological leader and to develop cost-effective solutions. I hope that we can work together to achieve that aim.

Clean Growth Strategy

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Thursday 12th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Claire Perry]

Of course I always assiduously read anything written by my right hon. Friend and neighbour. Like him, I welcome the fact that as part of our 50-point policy and plans we have No. 41, which is to develop a world-leading resources and waste strategy, on which I am working closely with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. My right hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) is absolutely right: it is right for the planet and it is right for business that we do this, so we will progress on that.

I have read the excellent document produced by the Conservative Environment Network, and I want to remind the House that the first person who raised the issue of man’s activities—men’s and women’s activities—on the impact of the climate was, of course, Mrs Thatcher, who understood the core Conservative principle that you take care of what you inherit and try to pass it on to the next generation in a better form. I am proud to be the latest person to carry that flag for Conservative environmentalism in this House.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

It is interesting to hear that Maggie Thatcher’s policy of shutting down coal mines and importing coal was down to some strategic vision about climate change. On a serious note, however, I thank the Minister for early sight of the statement and welcome the document’s publication, although she will understand that I have not yet had a chance to read it from cover to cover.

The clean growth plan clearly needs to be strategic and must bind other Departments. As the shadow Minister said, it must tie in and deliver the desired outcomes of the carbon budget and our climate change commitments. That is the spirit and intention of the strategy, but the Government need to ensure that that actually happens, so Treasury commitments are necessary. Some £2.5 billion of investment was outlined in the statement, but that is in reality only a fraction of the investment that is needed to decarbonise the UK.

All future energy scenarios rely on carbon capture and storage, but the strategy both includes and dismisses the use of CCS, so I am not exactly sure about the Government’s policy. We need a real commitment to delivering CCS, and the shadow Minister correctly said that pulling the £1 billion funding was farcical. Although the document states that £130 million has been spent on CCS R and D to date, that money has effectively been wasted. That was highlighted by a National Audit Office report, which said that the previous investment did not deliver any real outcomes. Investors need to have confidence in CCS, so the Government need to take a lead. The same can be said of tidal lagoons. If lagoons are to deliver, we need a much better show of commitment from the UK Government and we need it soon.

Another strategic aspect that the growth plan must link into is air quality. The strategy sets out the ambitions for ultra-low emission vehicles, but we need more than investment in charging points; we need real incentives to get people to purchase those vehicles, so a diesel scrappage scheme should be considered. The Government must also look at how they are going to tackle pollution from transport refrigeration units. A proper strategic review of infrastructure, transmission charges and energy efficiency is required, and it should consider in particular how to tackle private landlords. Onshore wind and solar are cheap, and such methods of electricity generation must be able to bid in the next round of contracts for difference. The Government need to keep an eye on this subject as the Brexit negotiations proceed and make changes as required.

[Claire Perry]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for an exhaustive and intelligent list of questions. I am happy to grab a cup of coffee with him and run through the document, because the strategy represents a genuinely UK-wide set of commitments. The Scottish and Welsh Governments have produced excellent plans using their devolved powers, which we welcome and in many cases support. As we implement the policies and design new ones, we are keen to work in a cross-Government and cross-party spirit of co-operation, because that is how we will get the best outcomes. I am happy to discuss all the opportunities with the hon. Gentleman and to listen to what he and his colleagues have to say. For example, I think we both welcome the remote islands announcement, which shows that we are absolutely committed to working within the current structure of various auctions and schemes to ensure that we maximise the contribution of low-carbon and low-cost energy from wherever we can source it.

West Coast Rail Franchise

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Westminster Hall

[Claire Perry]

I am always happy to look at things that happen on ferries, because I represent one of the most landlocked constituencies in Britain, so it is always novel to do so. I will come on to smart ticketing, which the hon. Gentleman knows is a particular passion of mine.

[Alan Brown]

I thank the Minister for giving way, especially as she was moving on to another point. I asked earlier about the commitment on journey times in the existing franchise, which was supposed to look at improving journey times in Scotland. That is clearly a massive issue, and I remind her to give us an update on that.

[Nadine Dorries in the Chair]

[Claire Perry]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries.

Absolutely, and looking at how existing commitments to journey time improvements can be met is part of the current programme.

I wanted to say to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle that during the public consultation, we will go out and talk to as many people as possible. We will hold a meeting at Carlisle station tomorrow from 3.30 pm until 5 o’clock. Perhaps he will encourage his constituents to come along and see some of the proposals and have a conversation with officials.

I will deal briefly with fares and on-board service. Although this franchise has some of the most reasonable fares in the country, particularly for tickets bought in advance, it also has some expensive walk-up fares. The most important thing is that we have capped fares at inflation for the duration of this Parliament, at a cost to the public purse of £750 million, which will save the average season ticket holder around £425 over the Parliament. That is absolutely right. However, we will ask the next franchise holder how fare structures could help to ease the shoulders around the peak, when trains can be very crowded. The world is changing; people are not working nine to five, five days a week the whole time. I have been keen for bidders to be asked to propose options that allow people who work part time—perhaps two or three days a week—to buy more cost-effective tickets or multi-buy discount tickets. We have specifically asked for that in franchise competitions, and we plan to do so in this one as well.

Wi-fi has come up several times. I was delighted to be the Minister to announce that all trains, with the exception of those that are being phased out, will have free on-board wi-fi by the end of 2018, and this franchise will be no exception. It already has a good wi-fi service in certain classes, but it is not free on all services, and it absolutely should be. I take on board the comments that my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle made about improved luggage and seating arrangements, which is another thing to feed in.

GPS and Heavy Goods Vehicles

Debate between Alan Brown and Claire Perry

Tuesday 22nd March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman’s points are often very sensible but, in my mind, they can also often lead to a sort of slightly dystopian world of lots of checks and balances, with organisations set up to do in-cab checks, and that is entirely what we do not want to deliver. What we want is an industry that believes in being responsible and has the tools to do so.

The point my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet made about having a little lorry symbol come up, in the same way as a car, or in my case a bicycle, symbol comes up is brilliant. The new technology—the open mapping system—will enable that. What I have instructed my officials to do—rather cheekily, as they no longer work directly for me—is to ensure that the Freight Transport Association and other bodies are given every opportunity to see the mapping process, consider how they might use it and exercise their powers to make recommendations—as has been mentioned, they have a recommended list of sat-navs. I would like them to be involved and, indeed, that offer applies cross-party to any hon. Member here—it is open to anyone who wants to see the information and be involved. This is a really important step forward in solving many of the problems about which we are all concerned.

It does not stop there. The road investment strategy sets out, finally, a long-term investment strategy for roads. That is so important. It includes a £150 million ring-fenced innovation fund that enables Highways England to develop technologies, including sat-nav, and approaches for a smoother, smarter and more sustainable road network. There is an element of driverless and co-operative vehicle technologies, and of improving the information and data that help drivers to plan their journeys.

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield made a fair point about what happens when roads are closed. I think that we were all surprised by what happened. With my rail hat on I can say that any delays like the ones he mentioned would have led to outrage among rail passengers across the country and demands for compensation. Somehow, we often accept that roads are closed, and there are lessons to be learned perhaps from other parts of the infrastructure.

A traffic information strategy developed by Highways England was published in January 2016. It sets out how the agency will work more closely with local authorities to integrate journey planning across the network and improve communications. I am aware, of course, that the Office of Rail Regulation now includes an element of road regulation and I would like to ask my officials to check whether the duty to inform—the duty to work with local authorities—is part of the office’s statutory powers.

The Highways England strategy also focuses on further development of the Traffic England website as a trusted source of information for road users in planning their journeys, and on sharing data from the National Traffic Operations Centre so that there is real-time information.

In conclusion, this debate is fascinatingly important and relevant to us all, in all our constituencies no matter where they are. I hope that some of my points have reassured my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet that the Government are absolutely committed to working more closely with the private sector and that there is real money backing that commitment. I invite all hon. Members to review the £3 million digital road map when it is perhaps in beta format, to see how we could encourage road haulage associations in our constituencies to take advantage of the new technology.

[Alan Brown]

I know that it might have seemed a tangential point, but I asked about the skills gap in the HGV industry and about Government support for filling it.

[Claire Perry]

I am delighted to respond to that. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We had an influx of HGV drivers from other parts of the world and many of them returned there when the economy turned down. It has, therefore, been a challenge to recruit and retain drivers. There is ongoing work into what could be done to make the cost of training more acceptable, for example. As the only lady in the room who represents a constituency, may I say that women do not want to be long-distance drivers partly because some of the rest facilities are absolutely atrocious? I have encouraged many HGV companies to realise—indeed the responsible ones do—that there is an enormous talent pool of people out there, for whom long-distance driving could be an appropriate career but who will not do it if they have to relieve themselves behind a bush at a rest stop. Raising the terms and conditions and working practices of many parts of the industry could attract non-traditional drivers to what is an important and growing part of the British economy.